WFC VIC
Started by unknown · · 434 posts · last reply 2 May 2014
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#51 ·
My measurements are of the coils themselves.My cell is a 3" tube set covered in delrin with tap water.All coils were measured with a B&K LCR meter with all the coils on the core,and all leads open,not connected to anything.
Stan's coils were all the same size wire and thats what I did as well.Power going to the cell is so small,large wire isn't needed.
Don -
#52 ·
Thank you for the clarification. Very interesting! Does your VIC get warm at all? I am assuming you are not getting any abnormal amount of gas production with such low current. How much water is the cell submerged in? I often have wondered after seeing a picture of the multi-celled, white, round, whatever it was called, if the water level was just slightly above or maybe even a little lower from the top of the cells. The way the design is made, the reservoir in the middle of the cell would lead me to think that the water was meant to flow out of the cells back into reservoir with great speed. This rapid circulation would possibly aid in releasing gasses from the bubbles more effectively and further ionization of the gasses. I wonder if the mass of the water has to, in some way, match up to the 10Khz? Everything else in the world has a resonance based on it's mass, why not water too? But, then you may have to ponder if the mass is only relevant to the space in the cell only, or is the entire bath part of the equation. -
#53 ·
Thanks for the info Don.
From where online can I buy that 'Ferroxcube U core' you are using?
I would like to buy one because the flybacks I have are tiny compared to what stan was using !
HM -
#54 · date not recorded
Ferroxcube U core,the largest one they make
Laminated?
Also, did you insulate your WFC electrodes? -
#55 · date not recorded
QuoteEverything else in the world has a resonance based on it's mass, why not water too?
building/ Tuning a circuit to match the acoustic frequency of the cylinder I feel would promote the resonance of mass (water). -
#56 · date not recorded
Bubz,my coils never get even warm,because there is no current,just voltage potential.Only a very small trickle of gas if you look very close.This is a good thing.My cell is completely covered in water,as with Stans resonant cell.There is water level detectors in the side of Stans cell that indicates the level.The cell is a full flow system.Water is always circulating back to the holding tank.The resonance in this cell is only between the tubes.Your not trying to resonate the whole cell cavity.
HM,I bought my U cores on Ebay.If you go to their web site I'm sure you can find a dealer list somewher on it.Just about any type of core will work,it just limits how much wire you can get on the bobbins that fit them.Smaller bobbins may need smaller gauge wire to get enough on them.
Alan,My cores are ferrite,but laminate will work also.Up to a point.And I've mentioned before my tube set is covered in delrin.Not individually insolated,tubes are bare.
Don -
#57 · date not recorded
Thanks again Don! Sorry for all the questions... Is the measured 1Kv the target voltage you are shooting for? Why did you choose that value? -
#58 ·
1kv is just what it makes with these coils.I didn't set it up to that value.I will probably wind new coils to get around 2kv.Stan states that around 1kv the water molecule starts to elongate.So I want to be over that mark.
Don -
#59 ·
Don - SM actually states that it will start to elongate at circa 1500V. -
#60 ·
Just figured I would post this image that I drew up. It's the Pulse Triggering Circuit from the 8XA circuit.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/stanmeyer/PulseTrigger_Trace.png)
-Tony Woodside-
.: Water Fuel Cell Research :.
http://www.globalkast.com -
#61 · date not recorded
Techhbrief mentions for wiregauge 0.002, 0.004 and 0.03, what are these numbers (diameter?) and to which AWG do they correspond? -
#62 · date not recorded
-this is in inchs -
#63 · date not recorded
Alan your mixing up different coils designs.Those values go to the water injector coils.Alot of people here needs to keep reading the tech brief, to get a better understanding of the different types of tech he actually had.Too many people are mixing up his work.READ THE BRIEFS!!!!It's all in there and get it straight as to what coil goes to what cell.
Don -
#64 · date not recorded
I know these are for the injector
These numbers from the techbrief (part 6) I cannot find them on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge -
#65 · date not recorded
QuoteTechhbrief mentions for wiregauge 0.002, 0.004 and 0.03, what are these numbers (diameter?) and to which AWG do they correspond?
Seems to be in inches Alan
.00314 = 40 gauge so the .002 is smaller wire then 40 gauge
.00445= 37 gauge
.0359 = 19 gauge
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#66 · date not recorded
Thanks.
Part 6 talks about SS 0.002 inch diameter 40+ AWG, but part 7 talks about 36 AWG for the same SS wire. -
#67 ·
OK I mesured my coils tonight.All of my wire is 30 gauge .010" diameter.
Primary inductance= 200mH , 200 turns
Secondary inductance= 3H , 1000 turns
Chokes inductance= 6.5H , 2000 turns
Ferroxcube U core,the largest one they make
again my LC resonance is @10khz at @ 1kv at the cell
Don
Hi Don,
I was just working out the math based on your values and this is what I've come up with:
Applied Voltage to Primary 12v @ 10khz
Primary XL = 12.56k Ohms
Sec. XL = 188.4k Ohms
L1 XL = 408.2k Ohms
L2 XL = 408.2k Ohms
Primary current @ 10khz = 12v/12.56k Ohms = 955uA
Sec.+L1+L2 = 1004.8k Ohms, current @ 10khz = 1000v/1004.8k Ohms = 955uA
As you can see the Primary current is equal to the LC current (Prim.=Sec.), this is resonance. I didn't figure in the resistance of the capacitor because it is so low that it's negligible.
-Tony Woodside- -
#68 ·
Are you sure about that? Did you tried it? -
#69 ·
these numbers are based on Don's values and he says he got resonance @ 10khz with 1kv at the cell, so these numbers show that he was getting resonance @ 10khz.
-Tony Woodside- -
#70 ·
Tony, if the primary is pulling 20 mA like he says, then there must be something missing from your analysis?
12v and 20 mA = 0.24 watts
at 1kv, =0.00024 amps though the cell, or 1/4 of a mA -
#71 ·
My calculations are based on 1st approximation which is "ideal" conditions, in electronics you have 3 approximations, 1st, 2nd & 3rd....3rd being the most detailed and in depth.
-Tony Woodside- -
#72 ·
I don't see how you can approximate 20 mA as 955uA
my point is we are missing some piece(s) of information here -
#73 ·
Now there's also something else ya have to remember here, depending on the test equipment, most meters are not accurate at frequencies over 500Hz. So the current reading maybe not be accurate due to propagation of the meter.
-Tony Woodside- -
#74 ·
As you can see the Primary current is equal to the LC current (Prim.=Sec.), this is resonance. I didn't figure in the resistance of the capacitor because it is so low that it's negligible.
-Tony Woodside-
I'm guessing you meant XL current.
You certainly can't calculate LC resonance without C and therefore it is not a resonance calculation at all.
Pulsing frequency and the gating of it are major factors of the system resonance in my opinion.
Mike -
#75 ·
@10khz, Capacitor (XC) = 1.6nF
XL = 2pi * f*L
XC = 2pi * f*C
fr = 1/ (2pi * sqrt(LC))
Primary = 12.56k Ohms
(Sec.+L1+L2+XC = Rt) = 188.4k + 408.2k + 408.2k + 9.952k = 1014752 Ohms
Primary 12v@10khz = 12/12.56k = 995uA
LC 1kv@10khz = 1kv/1014754 = 985uA
so by adding in the XC you get a difference of 10uA
fr = 1/ (2pi * sqrt(16H)*(1.6nF))
Im using 1.6nF because thats the capacitance of the 3" tube set.
so actually in with these values that Don has, the resonant frequency would be around 995Hz, not 10khz. The resonance that Stan Meyer's talks about isnt resonance as most people think. He used terms that weren't being used in it correct sense.
-Tony Woodside-