WFC VIC
Started by unknown · · 434 posts · last reply 2 May 2014
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#1 · date not recorded
To help you visualize better what stan was using in his multi VICsetup. This is a model with the corresponding dimensions as Dynodon showed when he was there:
“The core was two flat U cores about an 1/8 inch thick and about 1/2 wide. Each leg was @ 2 1/2 inches long, and @ 2 3/4 inches total width. They came together to make a closed core. They looked just like his drawings to the letter. They were a ferrite type material.
The WFC VIC coil is on a two piece U core. The cores were of a powdered metal like ferrite. It had five separate coils on it. Primary, secondary, two separate chokes,(not bifilar) and a pick up.
The chokes for the wfc vic coils were two separate coils of the same size. They looked just like the secondary; I would say they were the same size in shape and wire size.
Every coil was wound with the same size wire. 29-30 gauge.”
Wow that was a very thin and flat U core.
Do you think Stan custom built such cores? Dynodon said that it was a ferrite type material.
We need to know the approximate values for Inductance and determine self resonance.
This is to take also into consideration that this VIC is driving only a small 3inch 0.75dia tube cell.(very small capacitor)attachment_6222 attachment_6224 attachment_6226 vic.JPG vic1.jpg vic2.jpg
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#2 · date not recorded
Nicely done!
Steve -
#3 · date not recorded
Nice job with the drawings,looks just like them.The bobbins themselve's were two halves machined out of delrin.The two halfs come together to form the three section bobbin.The bobbin halves when put together have the groove down the center for the core to slide in.Both sets of bobbins on each leg of the U cores were the same size.You could wind the two chokes or a primary, secondary and feedback.The small section in the middle isn't used with the chokes.
I have never been able to find that type of U core anywhwere.They may have been custom made.
Don -
#4 ·
Don,
Do you remember if the core was light shiny grey(like tv flybacks) or dark color ferrite ?
How can we build such core ? Anyone know the process to fabricate a core let say with a usable frequency of 10khz-50khz? -
#5 ·
You could use resin and iron powder, or iron oxide... -
#6 · date not recorded
You could use resin and iron powder, or iron oxide...
Looks like laminated magnetic cores, made of thin insulated iron sheets stacked on each other.
br,
webmug -
#7 · date not recorded
The cores were a satin darker gray color,not as black as ferrite.Your frequencies of 10k to 50k is too high.Stan worked in the 10khz range.
Don -
#8 · date not recorded
Don would you tell us if you found other capacitors inside the vic or anywhere? Could you make a nice list and maybe a circuit diagram of what you exactly saw there? I think that stan could have used inter tube capacitance being the delrin the dielectric, i noticed also the vic had delrin bobbins.
I think i read everything you posted about it however i think that maybe you could help us with more detailed info if you have.
Anything could help.
Wish i could just take a look inside those black boxes...
Br
Fabio
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#9 · date not recorded
Like I said a while back,the one thing that I noticed when I got to see Stans work was that everything he said was just how it looked.Meaning I did not see anything there that was not in his writings.I did not see anything there that he did not talk about.If he didn't talk about it,it wasn't there.
The VIC coils were just as he described them.The resonant cell was just as he said.There was no other capacitors in the VIC circuit.The coil pack seen in my videos hooked directly to the cell.Alot of people are making this thing way too complicated.Remember Stans KISS method?
People seem to be going way overboard on their thinking here.Their making it more complicated than it is.I see the process working just as he says it does.He descibes the process very well.Others seem to think that it's alot more complicated than it is.Alot of people seem to be over complicating things.More people need to be testing more, than thinking about how it might work.Alot of talking,and not much testing.
I have made my coils just as Stan says,and I have been able to make high voltage on the water.Just take a look at my pic below.So just follow Stans words and start testing.You will learn alot.
Don
attachment_6228 PICT0033.JPG
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#10 · date not recorded
HV on the water and no bubbles is exactly what we want, only thing which is needed is tuning the HV pulses so the water will resonate mechanically.
Did you use SS-wire, Don? -
#11 · date not recorded
Alan,yes the next step now is to tune into the water resonance.I'm working on a new pwm that will help with that part.
I use only copper magnet wire.Stainless isn't needed for this VIC coils.This coil set when in resonance only pulls 20 milliamps.And the resonance is @ 10khz
Don
In order to find this voltage,you'll need an oscilloscope.If you don't have one,you can still find it with a flouresent bulb like my pic shows.You can hook one end of the tube up to one side of the cell and adjust frequency untill you get the light as bright as it will go,and your at resonance.attachment_6230 meyers pics.JPG
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#12 · date not recorded
Dynodon, What do you think of making a vic like that with electrical steel core, like the stuff I bought off of you?
Any comments on the function of the circuit that is in between the coils and around the sides? -
#13 ·
Donald,the laminate material could be used,but it may not work as good as ferrite type.It might saturate at the higher frequencies the cell needs to resonate at.You could try it,it can't hurt.
As for the the coil pack,there isn't any circuits on that card.There's a 5 volt regulator,and a 2n3055 transistor for the voltage amplitude control circuit.There was a resistor in line with the primary,thats not in Stans original schematics.The blocking diode is there too,the one Stan said was used.Thats all there is on that card.
Don -
#14 ·
Was the primary also 29-30 guage?
Thanks DynoDon, that is the picture I have been looking for.
My machinist tells me he finished the test cell.
I have been testing out a coil pack with laminate steel with small results.
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#15 ·
Hi Don
First of all thank you for the detailed picture of the VIC.
There I can see an LM340 5v regulator and a 2N3055 power transistor (marked in red in my pic A22 and Q4)
I cannot locate the diode. Is it hidden underneath the 2N3055 or is that big black rectangle outside and under the box WK S22A2T ?
Now correct me if I`m wrong:
1) I assume that the serial pc connector is going to the pll circuit which may be another box located in front of this one.
2) I assume that the 4 bolt connections on top are: (marked in orange in my pic)
· Positive supply(+12v)
· Negative ground
· 2 output connections to cell
3) I can see some other transistors / mosfets / resistors in the box which may be for Q5, Q6, Q7, Q8, Q9
4) I assume that the parts in the VIC box are the ones located inside the cryan perimeter. Signal connections from this box to the externals circuitry is going through the 'Serial PC connector' and some I marked them as green dots.
Please correct me If I’m wrong.
HMattachment_6234 untitled.JPG
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#16 · date not recorded
I'm curious about the wire gage of the primary too, when i made my version of this coil i had to change the primary and i'm not really sure what the target is, i think it may be a good project for me to try this again, after exams...
any measurements of inductance on these coils? -
#17 · date not recorded
Here is my manual pulsing circuit. It uses a 4047 in the Astable Free running mode for the gating pulse. This is fed to another 4047 set up in a complement gating mode. It delivers the Meyer’s style unipolar gated pulse from about 500hz to 11,000hz.attachment_6242 Manual Pulse.jpg
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#18 ·
A bipolar transistor, is very fast, and one of the most important characteristics is that it is a current controlled device so if well designed is easy to control the power going into it. I never succeed i actually exploded some 2 years ago, but i still have some here and will learn more and try it more. Now i have more background. The series resistor, is something i once tried but i thought was only there consuming power. Don, do you have any idea on what resistance? My guess is around or less than 1ohm... Any idea on the inductance and resistance of the coils? Thanks for that Picture. Is the first time i see it.
I found that the smaller the diameter of the wire the faster the electrons need to travel into it. This changes a lot the induction. In the sense that if you make you coil very thick even if it don't heats up you wont induce very high speed electrons magnetism, SS wire? Greatest resistance the faster they will need to go. Any thoughts on this?
I'm thinking if my exam for physics university failed (hope not) into making electrical engineering university focused into electronics. There is a great course here 5 years, a bit expensive but seems worth. What you think guys, should i? Anyone here is an EE? -
#19 ·
HM,there was two TIP120 transisters under the 2n3055.One of the TIP120 was the primary coil driver and the other was part of the amplitude control.The blocking diode is between the blue and red coils on the right side.That would be the secondary and choke.The blue box on the bottom is a female connector.A PLL board plugged into that socket.The serial connector would be for the voltage amplitude hook up.
The four studs are the power in and pulses out to primary coil.Q5-Q9 are not on this coil pack,they would be on their own board.
All coils were the same size 29-30.Iv'e stated that before.I used that for my primary and 35 for secondary and chokes.It allows me to have more turns on them with the same size bobbins.I dont know the resistance or inductance of these coils.Can't help you there.The resistors were all tied together as one.They seemed to be across the feedback winding.
Remember that these coils were hand wound,and not at all precision.I don't think that their sizes make much difference.It only makes more or less voltage,and changes the resonance frequency
Don. -
#20 ·
Thanks DynoDon, just wanted to make sure on the wire size. Mine is really a pain to disassemble and rewind.
In his Figure 5 diagram he had a diode across the primary coil. I have done this for relays to suppress spikes, but when I add one to my driver circuit it raises the amps and everything heats up (and yes I checked the polarity). Did you see any such animal on the coil pack?attachment_6244 Capture.JPG
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#21 ·
I had the same results as you with the diode across the primary coil,so I took it out as well.I'm not sure if there was one in Stans setup.It wasn't on the coil pack.
Don -
#22 ·
The diode is for BEMF, to allow flow without putting strain on your switch/mosfet/gate. While your interpretation of Meyers transformer is very nice, i do believe that it says "torodial" or "torid" at the primary on his schematic (I could be wrong there is about 8 patents with the same basic outlay, not all of them his). -
#23 ·
Stans first VIC coil did call for a torid core.But as you can see from my pic.their U cores
Don -
#24 · date not recorded
Don, do you have more info on the steam resonator?
I think this will proof the work by voltage concept best. -
#25 · date not recorded
Thanks for your clarifcation Dynodon.
Regarding your setup, did you measured the output voltage on cell @ resonance with an oscilloscpe?
If I remeber correctly some time ago you were having trouble in voltage swinging on bought +ve and -ve sides. Did you solved that issue?