WFC VIC
Started by unknown · · 434 posts · last reply 2 May 2014
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#351 ·
I`v built fig12 and fig6 on breadboard, and noticed that at the output from A26(74122) duty cycle is not fully variable, it varies in steps. Is that as it should be ?
I attached the waveforms i`m having at some points of the circuits
HM17042011018.wmv
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#352 ·
I`v built fig12 and fig6 on breadboard, and noticed that at the output from A26(74122) duty cycle is not fully variable, it varies in steps. Is that as it should be ?
I attached the waveforms i`m having at some points of the circuits
HM
the very last 20 seconds of your video shows the correct action of the duty cycle of the gated signal.....this gated signal will be overlaid or superimposed on top of the pll output so that the pll frequency (whatever that ends up being, based on what kind of water you use) will only show up under the square waveform but not on top of it
The gate signal blocks out a percentage of it per cycle
(you may already have guessed that, but im stating it here for beginners)
looks good... nice sharp corners, clean signal
if you dont use signal K or the safety circuit (figure 11), you can leave out the extra parts between the 74122 and output "A"
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#353 · date not recorded
Anyone have a clue about this?
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/water%20fuel%20tech/4046.jpg) -
#354 · date not recorded
Anyone have a clue about this?
continue line down below the question mark and connect to pin 14 of 4001 to the right
(maybe)... -
#355 ·
Newguy, Q4 is a 2N3055 and Q5 is a TIP120.
Outlawstc,that wire comes from pin 3 of the PLL and the connection going to the tab at the base of the card doesn't hook to anything,it dead ends there.So it doesn't matter whare it goes.
Don
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#356 ·
Thank You Dynodon
looking forward to getin parts n stuff 
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#357 · date not recorded
Thanks Don that one has been on my mind for a while.. I'm also curious to where the ANL/FREQ switch is connected and its function in the circuit... it looks to me like one of the wires is going to one of the switch 2 pads on the board..
If i were to guess what it is for i would say its to switch the bnc test output to send out 1 of 2 signals.. Either the variable amplitude or the cell drivers output.. allowing one bnc connection to be easily switched between 2 signals? -
#358 · date not recorded
outlawstc,your exactly right on the anl/freq switch.It lets you see the cell driver frequency or the analog voltage output.
Don -
#359 ·
Don, parts Q1,2,and 3 on figure 3.... those would help alot as well. -
#360 ·
Here are some work intensive photo edits of where i think the traces go on the VIC Card
frontplane is blue, backplane is red
start by tracing power routing to every chip to verify.
also seems to me that pin 3 of the pll goes to the 10k resistor called point "G", the input of figure 5.
(because pin 4 of PLL- VCO signal out, goes to pin 14 of 4017, pin 14 is the clock input and i would suspect that according to the photo and according to the figure 7 schematic this would be true)
Basically signal goes out on pin 4 and comes back on pin 3 so if you switch in one of the 4017s the frequency is divided and comes back from pin12 carry to pin 3 pll and at this point goes to point "G"
if pll pin 4 went to point "G" the 4017 dividers wouldnt work...
also here is the multisim simulation for figures 3, 4 voltage circuit... still have to test it in the real world but its updated based on the VIC CARD revelations...
attachment_7048 attachment_7049 FIG 3_4 vic card photo.ms11 VIC Backplane.png VIC Frontplane.png
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#361 ·
@DON
seems like the Q8 on VIC CARD was an after thought, even though the fingers go out to an external Q8
What gives?
Here is the updated figure 4 schematic based on the Vic Card details
Figure 4.pdf
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#362 · date not recorded
I was looking at core materials, and the iron powder core are an interesting material, but initially got a low permeability - I for one think that this is important as inductance is, and iron powder cores do have an upper limit there. Quit often permeability in iron powder core is less then 100 in PM, these cores contain other interesting aspects, but PM and induction is important, so I located a ferrite material that might have potential, so please take a look at it and comment.
*Ferrite Material 78 (soft ferrite) meaning it can be machined!!!
Initial permeability is between 2300-2500
http://www.fair-rite.com/newfair/materials78.htm -
#363 · date not recorded
I would avoid the toroid co`s its not in the his vic matrix patent, probably best to use the later patents. The stainless wire looks like it is used with his injectors so avoiding them will save u a lot of hassle. Read the vic patent and learn the different technologys he talks of (vic and vec) as he flips between them almost in the same sentence, this makes reading his patents easier, i think the vic is a simplier build. His vic is reasonably well described except the primary coil, he said the primary is bi-directional wrap...bi is 2, 2 directions and wrap means wrapped around the former. The bi-directional is one half of the transformer primary is wound in one direction and the other half is then wound in the opposite direction forming 2 coils of opposing magnetic fields, this is wound longitudal to the chokes and secondary,i am 98% certain that is exactly how it is wound. Another tip would be if u put a resistor in miss out the voltage multiplier coil for now but not the electron inhibitor coil, you can make it a variable resistor for easy adjustment.
I have had this producing gas but there is some sort of "tuneing" needed i cannot work out at the moment, but haveing gas production with uA`s flowing out of my mini vic shows it can be done.
(this post came from Joe2 at http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7765-hho-production-stan-meyer-style.html) -
#364 ·
This is what I'm seeing in the circuit...is this what you guys are seeing???
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/PLL&CellDriver.PNG)
Hi Tony
What is the value for the capacitor near the 22k resistor?
hm -
#365 ·
Can someone explain to me why the cell driver circuit uses 4 transistors instead of only 1?
Is it just used to amplify the signal so the tip120 has full conduction? -
#366 · date not recorded
just thought i would show off my new board ;-)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/water%20fuel%20tech/101_2019.jpg)
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#367 · date not recorded
Wow, looks like someone else has been busy too!
My parts are still coming in! -
#368 ·
Outlaw, what program did you use to design your board? -
#369 · date not recorded
I used eagle -
#370 · date not recorded
It seems the secondary and chokes are configured as series connected and are all the same polarity
Is this true
Therefore the step up ratio required at 12 volts on the primary is 150 to 1 to get 1800 volts at the output
therefore if the primary has 100 turns the three coils must total 15000 turns
so that means each coil must have 5000 turns of wire
does this sound close to stans design parameters Dynodon???
Also Don, were the values in the excel sheet based on an actual VIC coil you measured or are these values from one of your replications?
Thanks
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#371 · date not recorded
When Stan is talking about coil ratio in his patent his example is 10:1 step up in comparison to primary and secondary.. He then says if he applies 12v then he gets 360volts spikes.. But he also says that with the chokes being the same amount of winds as secondary that its a 30:1
The voltage Stan is creating is higher then the output of the transformer based on wind ratio i think.. Stan is incrementally (pulsing) which is displacing the electrons within the transformer.. His higher voltage is not based off of the ratio since it goes higher i do believe..
The way I imagine it is Stan has a transformer made to displace and oscillate continously.. Once it gets up to like say 5000volts, you can cut off input and the circuit will continue to oscillate due to the mechanical resonance that was achieved from the gated pulses. It will oscillate until all the charge leaks back across the gap from negative to the positive.. Remember stan is not getting 0 amps.. There is still leakage across the gap..
This is why Stan says he can run the circuit in a resonant condition for 5 seconds then cut off the input and it will continue to output gasses for 94 seconds.. Its because he resonates a displacement in the coil and that displacement discharges at around 2 ma or so.. -
#372 · date not recorded
Ali ,the measurements in the spreadsheet were taken from Stans coils,not my own.
Everyone who recieved the dvd's with the spreadsheet, I will tell you what the different readings in the tabs mean.
First tab "Loose coils" are the reading of each vic coil without the core installed.
Second tab "On Core Open" means the core was installed,and all of the coils were not wired to anything,all leads were open.
Third tab "On Core Closed" means the coils were on the core and all of the coils had their wires twisted together,except the one being tested.Each coil leads were twisted together seperate from the other.I mean when the primary coil was tested,the secondary coil leads were twisted together,and each choke coil was twisted together,all sperate from each other.
Then of course the last tab was the cell readings.
I hope you all understand this.If you recieved a dvd from me and you don't have the spreadsheet let me know and I will email it to you.I didn't get it on the dvd's,forgot.
Don -
#373 ·
Transformer Calculations:
*******************************************************************************
Vic Bobbin Shown can hold at the most
30 layers deep x 114 winds wide = 3420 turns per choke
3420 x 3 coils = 10260 turns for all three
if 10260 turns = 2000 volts (target output at 12 volts)
2000 / 10260 = .194931773 volts per turn
12 volts primary / .194931773 volts = 61.56 turns on the primary
10260 / 61.56 = 166.66 to 1 transformer ratio
PROOF: 12 volts x 166.66 = 2000 volts
if voltage is varied from 3 volts to 12 volts to control production ( using figures 2, 3, & 4 as stated in the patent)
then 3 volts would give a final output voltage of 3 x 166.66 = 499.98 volts
6 volts as a lower limit would give us 999.96 volts
these calculations are based on zero losses and using an optimum AC signal to overcome hysteresis losses
i dont know how the square wave, DC signal with a diode affects these calculations
I do know that a small inductance on the primary is required because at 10khz anything over 50mh tends to make the square wave a pure dc (battery) signal and the pulsing signal would be lost in the inductive reactance.
for this reason the type of core used must be thin and flat with a very low permeability and the gap between halves helps avoid saturation
as seen in the final VIC core
photos attached with dimensionsattachment_7599 attachment_7601 vic bobbin square meyers sketch.wmf ferrite core.jpg ferrite core 2.JPG
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#374 · date not recorded
CORRECTION>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i did some looking and calculations on the actual VIC primary and its got about 741 turns
now if each choke and the secondary can only hold close to 4000 turns each due to space limitations
then 12000 / 741 = 16.2 turns ratio
this would only give 194 volts output at 12 volts input... apparently the 1500 volts stan speaks of MUST be due to step charging
5 cycles per capacitor charge = 194 x 5
= 970 volts??
what gives?? -
#375 ·
The one thing that has eluded me in this journey of discovery is the electrical fundamental formula related to series resonance vs parallel resonance
With series resonance the amps go high while the voltage goes down at resonance
With parallel resonance the voltage goes high, keeping amps at a minimum
that is documented all over the net at every single site and in all the electronics books
so my question is:
does the secondary coil of the transformer count as the parallel inductor with the water cap (tube) disregarding the chokes...
it appears that if the resonance we are seeking is the tank circuit between the secondary/choke combination and the WFC then it looks like a series resonant tank circuit and therefore: series resonance should give high amps and low voltage!
OR are we shooting for resonance of the capacitive / inductive characteristics of the choke coils themselves
What exactly do you think the PLL is providing as far as the resonant frequency? does the fact that the secondary is a voltage source at each end of the coil make it a parallel tank circuit as opposed to a series tank circuit with an external power source?
others have indicated that the blocking diode prevents a tank circuit...
the mystery boggles my mind