6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Started by unknown · · 285 posts · last reply 16 May 2019
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#201 ·
Hey this is very nice to see.. thanks for looking up for the video...
the residual charge left on the tube was decreasing from the metter perspective
you said it keep like that for hours and that it was a 304 material with spring water? what is the characteristics of this type of water?
really seem to me that the electrodes are discharging the charge left on them to the water it could do this until reach zero volts..
you also mentioned that it was charged for a long time before.. i wonder if you may not have electroplated some zinc on the electrode or some kind of metal from the water that later keep dissociating,,
i say this because is very few bubbles and they have a constant production and than stop
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#202 ·
I don't know any more specifics about the water except that the spring water is supposed to be natural so contains no chlorine. It probably has some natural minerals in it. Here is an example of a label about mineral content from bottled spring water:
INGREDIENTS
NATURAL SPRING WATER. DISSOLVED MINERAL SALTS: 180 PARTS PER MILLION. FLUORIDE IONS: 0.1 PARTS PER MILLION
I understand that electrolysis requires 1.47V minimum to start, so this is why I'm uncertain what to make of the meter reading. There is obviously some kind of residual charge, but I don't know how to quantify it.
I was also using a self resonating radiant charging circuit to do this, not the Stan Meyer circuit. The time period it was running I'm not certain about, but you do see the one pipe has white oxides on it. Might have been several hours.
The cool thing about this however is I believe it suggests that the water is indeed polarized. -
#203 ·
It looks like its just discharging obviously because thers no voltage applied.
The geometry being tubes instead of flat plates also obviously formed a decent capacitor.
I dont know why nobody ever shows a cell being pulsed with 26 volts charging up to 1000 volts or more....thats the example Stan gave ?
The water polarizes as soon as a voltage is present...polarization simply means the hydrogen is attracted to the negative and the oxygen to the possitive....when voltage is present they become polarized...simple.
attachment_15588 attachment_15590 Screenshot_20181209-003839_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20181209-004047_Chrome.jpg
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#204 ·
It looks like its just discharging obviously because thers no voltage applied.
The geometry being tubes instead of flat plates also obviously formed a decent capacitor.
I dont know why nobody ever shows a cell being pulsed with 26 volts charging up to 1000 volts or more....thats the example Stan gave ?
The water polarizes as soon as a voltage is present...polarization simply means the hydrogen is attracted to the negative and the oxygen to the possitive....when voltage is present they become polarized...simple.
i agree here with Newguy...
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#205 ·
i believe when the circuit is open somehow the ions that were deposited on the electrode are being oxidized and becoming hydrogen lets research what could be those ions
to effectively polarize the molecules we need to reach a greater voltage since up to 1,23 v almos all the electric field is in the dual layer where there are no molecules only the free ions...
so to effectively polarize it it must get over it.. so meyer says he get up to 1000 v
is not really hard to get this voltage on water if i remember well i could have up to 2000ohms per cell so to really get 1000 volts it would only need 0.5 amps (de-ionized rain water)
this is 500W with that resistance range
you would just need a 500W 1000v transformer or pulse the coils with this amount of power
if working from 12v would require 41,666 amps ... so all you need is to pulse a coil with 41,666 amps basically and get this into the water thru a 83 times bigger coil
this would be the brute force
but if we use coils is possible to make them reach higher voltages for brief moments and maybe that is better for the job
a coil will develop unrestricted voltage if the current is not 0 and it is interrupted
the only restriction to the voltage is the power accumulated on the primary and the actual resistance of the interrupted path
so basically theoretically not taking into count the other real world effects the voltage will be equal to the current times the resistance of the path so whatever coil with 0,5 amps could give 1000v to water?
in the real world coils have self capacitance and in our case water also is a capacitor so the thing is how much energy we need in the coil to get this voltage there and for how long will durate the discharge
the time period for a coil to discharge its energy is dependent on its inductance and resistance so the greater is the resistance the shortest will be the discharge t=L/R it takes 5 time periods like this to full discharge
capacitors also have a time constant t = C*R and also inductors and capacitor also have a resonant frequency= 1/2pi(L*C)^-1/2
so when you look at all this with the water capacitor you need to find first what is the energy it need to get 1000v than how much would cost of energy for second to maintain it from ohms law
in one patent meyer say something that made me understand that perhaps applying a pulse of greater voltage starting as a peak would make the current flow for the whole cycle
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#206 ·
Well I definitely agree any voltage will tend to polarize the water. I was more referring to it staying polarized when the charge is still there and no electricity is being directly applied. -
#207 · date not recorded
Timeshell I thought we will see the cell working too -
#208 · date not recorded
I never said that. I haven't been well for the last few years and am not actively pursuing this right now. My video response was specific to your statement to show a charged cell. My final understandings are as a result of years of past experiments confirmed and brought together in the end by Ronnie's work. All my experiments lead me to conclude that his work is valid. I have not been well enough to finish it although this conversation has been getting me tinkering again. Maybe I'll get it running sometime, but I can't say when that will be.
If anyone is interested, this is the platform for my current WFC.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2967526
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#209 · date not recorded
Both electrodes are stainless steel? the outer one looks like aluminium, or oxidized... -
#210 · date not recorded
The outer one is 316L with an oxide layer. The inner one is 304. -
#211 · date not recorded
Pics of the work I've done over the past few days. I need new coils and am waiting on some carbon fiber filament to arrive to print new bobbins.attachment_15598 attachment_15600 attachment_15601 P_20181209_082249.jpg P_20181209_082302.jpg P_20181209_082317.jpg
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#212 · date not recorded
what kind of oxide layer? you deposited something specific?
Very nice still.. but i was also hoping to see some more gas.. =D but its totally fine
very good to know you are back in the team TS ... hope you are fine!
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#213 · date not recorded
No, the oxide layer built up on its own using the self resonant circuit. It did produce more gas when the electricity was plugged in btw. -
#214 · date not recorded
It looks like its just discharging obviously because thers no voltage applied.
The geometry being tubes instead of flat plates also obviously formed a decent capacitor.
I dont know why nobody ever shows a cell being pulsed with 26 volts charging up to 1000 volts or more....thats the example Stan gave ?
The water polarizes as soon as a voltage is present...polarization simply means the hydrogen is attracted to the negative and the oxygen to the possitive....when voltage is present they become polarized...simple.
Ronnie claims to have done the same thing feeding 3 to 4 volts into his primary. I believe it. I have pulsed my primary with 8 to 9 volts and have had 2kV pulses going into the cell through my VIC 3 years ago. I disconnected the lead going to the cell and manually touched it to the cell connectors and had some pretty cool sparks happening. This was around the time that I paused my activity due to health issues. I wasn't making any significant new videos at that time other than some wave forms on my scope. -
#215 · date not recorded
I'm hoping everyone working on this has done this, but if not, here is something you should all do. Make a spreadsheet to define the following information.
1. Your WFC capacitance with air. Measure this BOTH ways as it will not be the same.
2. Multiply your results in step 1 by 78 to get the water capacitance value
3. You will need the AWG spec.
4. Based on values of steps 1 and 2, create equations to give you information to create coils that will provide resonant frequencies within the range of 100 Hz to 10 kHz for BOTH air and water capacitances for BOTH sides of the WFC. This will mean that your chokes will have different sizes based on each side of the WFC. While there is still water in the gap, the mismatched chokes sizes will allow current flow through the water to produce gas to replace the water. When the water in the gap is replaced by gas, this will then allow resonance to occur with the same frequency on both sides of the WFC.
5. Impedance matching for efficient power transfer.
Using this information, you should be able to calculate appropriate coil information that will be suitable with a low frequency when there is water in the WFC and when the water is replaced by gas in the WFC at a high frequency. -
#216 · date not recorded
Timeshell the LC circuit is supposed to be between one choke and the "capacitor" or the sum of the coils (mutual inductance) and the "capacitor"?
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#217 · date not recorded
Timeshell the LC circuit is supposed to be between one choke and the "capacitor" or the sum of the coils (mutual inductance) and the "capacitor"?
Good question.
Treat each side of the WFC like it's its own capacitor.
So, if you measure your WFC (or calculate; measuring it should give you a similar result) one way, let's say it gives you 25pF. When you reverse the meter leads, it should give you a different result, such as 30pF. So, as an example, to have a frequency of 5kHz on both sides, the side that measures 25pF would need a coil of 40.528H and the side of 30pF would need a coil of 33.774H.
This doesn't include the secondary which you will also need.
BUT, there is more to it than that. You need to select a wire gauge that will give you a suitable resistance for the length of wire you use to create the coil for impedance matching to maximize power transfer to the WFC. And do some research into the reactance of capacitors and coils.
You really should measure each tube pair of your water cell and make sure that they are very close to equal values as you can reasonably get them. Then add up their capacitances using the equation for capacitors in series which should be the total value of your WFC. -
#218 ·
Does the resonance feed back and drive the Primary like Puharich?
This is the drive I get from the feedback off of one leg of Puharich.
I think anyaways....just tryn to learn so try not be 2 mean
attachment_15607 Screenshot_2016-12-17-23-01-58.png
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#219 · date not recorded
That could eventually be added to it, but isn't necessary to get it going. -
#220 · date not recorded
Timeshell I measured 1 pair of tubes in both ways and the capacitance is rhe same, as expected. I really dont understand your point. It just dont make sense to me. -
#221 · date not recorded
Unless the surface diameter of the inside of the outer tube is EXACTLY the same as the surface diameter of the outside of the inner tube, this really shouldn't be the case.
This is the kind of capacitance meter I am using:
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=200215818&initiative_id=AS_20181212103957&SearchText=lc100-a -
#222 · date not recorded
Im using an uni-t lcr meter. -
#223 ·
Im using an uni-t lcr meter.
Youre not forming a good capacitor then maybe?
2 cents aint worth a nickle i know but ....
Timeshell makes complete sense with that. -
#224 ·
Not all capacitance meters are as accurate as they should be. Ronnie referred me to the type I have the link for. I'll make a video showing it working soon.
A reminder that not only should the reading be different in both directions, but you actually want it that way. Otherwise, you won't have a difference in the chokes and then you will end up completely blocking the current which you don't want to do. -
#225 ·
Make sure if you had your tube pair wet that you dry them well. If there is water between them still it can skew your reading.