sebosfato

if you compare this to electrolysis is like comparing semiconductor to metals..

in semiconductors there can be positive and negative charge carrier or both... in metals only electrons conducts...

in water is like on a semiconductor... if you get only positive ions inside it will conduct... so as if you had negative ions... or if you had both...

or do you think that neutralizing the acidity would lead to zero current?

well we could test it... get it very pure water mix with acid and test the conductivity... than add base to neutralize the ph and we would have neutral ph... but the point is it would conduct however...

ph is only the proportion between the positive and negative ions in the water latice... not how many net ions...

if we consider that we have both base and acid in equal proportion why should the electrolyte heat if the ions does not need to cross the cell...

this are some questions i have too..


what happens when we mix a saturated base solution with a acid solution... very huge heat come out...

good question.. the answer is yes ... if you could take for example 2 protons out of oxygen and more 2 neutrons you would get two hydrogen atoms or even a helium atom... and would end up with nitrogen

actually after 11 minutes the neutrons decay into another two hydrogen atom with its own electron each...

this were only examples..

about the resonant action.. where the gas keep comming out... thats because stan said it is arranged to become as self sustained oscillation system... it mean that when he gates it the oscillation on the coils will keep going...

i will tell you one thing guys


in my opinion of a simple man the wfc is a sort of capacitor that has a capacitance leap when the gas is generated... when this happens across the cell a very high voltage apear across the cell... its analogous to change the dielectric value or forcing charged electrodes to go far from each other...

this is

sit where you are

amplification  of energy

right?

so if we get the point where gas is generated and the Q factor of the system is above a certain value the system will indeed oscillate undefinately untill parameter change and its pulled out of resonance or actually up to the point where theres no more water

now you see why resonance action? do you see i´m not bla bla bla my friend?

do you see that if you ionize water it gets conductive and you kill the high voltage you are trying to put into it... at least in one point of view electric fields are also defined by the current going thru a resistive media so if you get both equations aside you see that if you get purer water is even better than filling with chemicals for example even if the chemical would distort the molecules making them weakened ... 

you kill the high voltage from the inside, yes you generate a small gas since you are breaking the molecule by ionization... however as you do this you are just doing a very high brute force electrolysis... just the same... you are ionizind because there is nothing less to allow the current flow.. big deal the real big problem with electrolysis sis that you need to set an overvoltage potential and this leads the efficiency to such small factor, including polarization is what really causes the electrolysis to be unefficient...  you set a potential and the cell set a backelectromotive potential that force you to add at least this amount of potential to the electron so it can win the barrier and pass thru``..

you see your ionization idea duplicate this error in a gigantic manner... HV+HIGH AMPS = HIGH POWER 

YOU ARE GOOD INTENTION i value that.. i hope you just ask yourself...is there anyone in this world who maybe know something else i dont?

i guess my secret is to ask this every day to my self and try to understand what i dont!

if you leave something on for 1 second and it keeps on for 90 seconds the Q and amplification factor is very huge

i told you all this and yet didnt touched my theory.. thats because its to be released if i prove that its correct or just to tell you what i did and you can do also if you want... 

my idea is not to be the hho man... i just want to make it work and put all of you in front of it and ask if you want to change the world in the way its better to be... than if you want to help great otherwise you get your water car and keep going...

Yes ionization could break molecule... all ok, just dont put words in my mouth... i dont think meyer break the molecules thru this process, alone... if this is really ever achieved or needed...

i wont tell my theory here.. but it consist into thinking how else could i break the molecule... why would it break... and how i do it without amps...

i can tell you that when you understand my theory (stan theory) you will see

why voltage perform work ( maybe your differential probe told you that already)i had to see with my multimeter...

i proposed this experiment here a while ago but i guess no one seems to have tried it so unfortunately i have no other confirmation than my tests and tables with results...just connecting thecells in series and put a voltmeter across them and pulse the inner electrode with high freq high voltage,,, this is the same as having a differential probe with very high insulation fromground depending where are you multimeters cables and where its standing...

how the diode turns off and why it prevent electrons from shorting to the secondary

you will also see that there is no point trying to win an argument by the force... there is no difference if the gas will come out ionized or not untill it comes out and we can see how its face looks like..

only there we can put a resistor together connected from ground to a grid passing the gas thru it and see the way the current will flow...

or make it flow in a coiled tube and measure the magnetic force for example...

thats the way science really works...

the autoionization is a limited process timelimited... i have in the university of biology a friend that gives me water from a purifier i just forgot the name but costs like 30000 dollars and makes the water used for dna manipulations... they give me as much as i want... but just to you see the water start to get conductive as it gets out of the filter... the air in contact with it start to lend nitrogen to its matrix, oxygen, gases, and Co2 and others gases dissolves forming conductive electroilyte.. thats how they discovered it.. they realized that there was no way to keep taking ions out of water they would ever keep apearing and making the conductance never get to zero.

i think the only where i think i see stan show his production is when the buggy first run... other demosntrations i saw of him were very small gas production,,,

the question would be what cause that autoionization.... i guess is decurrence of natural background radiation... but there are some theories about it,.. the point is water is a matrix and this ions have to be equidistant from each other...

if you get their mean distance and charge and calculate you get the voltage that holds them equidistant,,

there is a discussion here in the forum about it somewhere in the past...

at the university i did a course on tecnology of fuell  cell and there was my first contact with a polarization curve.... there i understood more how those ions behave,,,you could teach yourself on a goodbook about it

we are what we are.... those with pure heart will read thru my lines and see the true...

im sorry you want to win the prize of who´s who arrogant of the year... i know now why people have ignored you so hard... i wont waste more time reading or trying to see a reason behind your senseless theory, as a physiscist i indentify too much problems in your understanding of very simple concepts and i repudiate your arrogance more than your crappy theory... you can ignore me how much you want... lets see what others will do when i show it working... or the guy in the street i dont care... i dont ignored you when you came here talk about your video... i hope you have all the light on focus you want...

about burning things i just dont get money now to get another probe... it would not tell me what i had to know... nor will tell anyone... this is a false hope you created to yourself that having it you are closer than me or anybody else who have not.. you will never be better than anyone... you will never be close to science if you dont learn the simplest rules.... in nature survive whos stronger and the stronger will be the one with a crew.

i work with very pure water... but i also vary its purity during tests...

have you ever done the calculation of how many ions would be available thru the autoionization from water? do you know how much ions you got ? thats why i say its irrelevant to meyer magnitude of claims... or even horvath.... i did... if you would have a cavity having 1 liter of water in between plates how much ions would you got?

please do the math of your own theory before you claim its the right, or if you dont have the skills for doing it ask for help.. maybe help is all we need... what prevents you now from going there and make more turns and make it work?

my lazyness is the only thing between me and a working cell...

once my teacher of atomsic and molecular physics sub course, that when you ionize something you will create a current flow...not only because you steal that electron... because you created also motion of that specie, at the other electrode instantaneouly you will have another charge being displaced... thats why when you get for example a positive field it would steal one electron from the oxygen this electron will walk on the circuit... thats why i keep saying that is not simply about applying high voltage across the cell... there are other things playing that you dont get because you didnt folllow our ideas development like most here looking the big picture....
s
i had to come up with this theory out of nothing and yes a differential probe would tell me the same thing that my multimeter told me but i can read even if i cannot see... my multimeter has max and min measurements dc+ac so i´m good with it...

your ignorance wont help you...

please film yourself while you burn your ph meter...

in my "opinion" you are going off track ... i doubted for long time about what meyer was doing and saying and i also thought he messed  around with the ions and also auto ionization propriety of water... i considered all that... thru the way... i learned some physiics which helped guiding better my intuition... but today what i can see is that meyer was indeed looking into splitting the molecule... the ions were only rocks in his way only... thats one view..

in my view as i already declared... the atoms in the molecules simply as Stan also claimed become independent forming monoatomic atoms by action of the electrical polarization process that it is subjected than subsequently forms with another atoms diatomic molecules and exit as a neutral gas... when electron extraction circuit is implemented the gas will exit charged... theres no net charge in the water molecule....

simple as that...

its possible that the some gas come out ionized from the electrical polarization process with polarity according to the switch off programation. this will be a very small percenteage of the outcoming gas since im trying to not dealing with exchange of electrons... that wold be just the lost from voltage zones...

as meyer lately said and nobody could see i clear it up to you the next step would be electron extraction... right?

my question to you and its something meyer already mentioned... does water accept any other electrons?

its nice to see how you look at it. Like i told you, i see it in a different way... but that should not stop you..

do you know that the ions are equally distributed thru the volume? 

another question? is that point in the middle of your "cell" the zero volts? i mean you are considering to be applying B+ and B- at same time?

keep going

Hello, why in your analysis the point of great potential diference is in the middle of the electrodes?

in your theory the gas is generated right in middle of the cell TGS?

in my point of view correct me please if i'm wrong... the cell has the greater intensity field right over the surface of the inner electrode.. and it decays over distance because of screening of charge and polarization effects...

so how can be the center of the cell the point with greater potential difference?

according to physics parallel plates have linear electric field strength distribution while concentric case has stronger near the smaller electrode...

thanks


ps... in attachment my "differential" wave forms ... across cell... pulse in.... Va ... Vb...

Natural water - not distilled or de ionized - contains a variety of ions.  There's even some amount of H2O2, or peroxide ions.  However, these ions don't have a 'vapor pressure' in the sence that removing them causes more to appear, maintaining some kind of balance.  The pressence of these ions is statistical; a certain amount of ions will be present after a certain, long enough, period of time.  Formation of spontaneous ions is not the key to Meyer's system.  He claimed that incrementally moving the electrons away from the valance band regions requires less energy than a normal process.  And I tend to agree with him.  This is the basis of his system's heightened efficiency, at the water spliting stage.  I read about one test using pulses at 1.1 MHz which resulted in 96 percent less energy requirement.

"you have than monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen that subsequently forms diatomic molecules liberating heat and coming out as a bubble... " "the point is how to charge the water molecules? till the point where this happens?"

Stan said that the water molecules act as "micro capacitors" in the circuit.  As the surrounding plates are charged, this places a charge on the micro capacitors.  This is a non electron charge, which is related to pure potential.  Pure potential is produced by radiant energy coming from a pulsating static charge.  Or by a complex field which equates to static energy.  A positive potential is an absence of electrons.

Meyer actually talks about using voltage as potential energy allowing efficiency at least over 10000% from the magnitude of his claims... this mean not a more efficient process, this mean 180 degree from that...its straight energy amplification... or if you will extraction from the voltage potential...

i don't want to confuse you.. sorry..

i believe this is achieve thru a process of applying voltage fields to the water.. restricting the current to the milliampere range..

this way according to stan water molecules gets a charged and subsequently in the process the covalent attraction force is switched off...

he asks how much energy does it take to turn off a switch?

how much energy is it required for an electron to just jump a band gap?



   

Meyer vic is meant to restrict the current to keep it straight physical reaction.. the exchange happens all inside the resonant cavity... nothing get ionized.. in my view the molecules simply stop to attract each other when very charged... so hydrogen electrons jump out of oxygen orbit.. you see? no ionization at all... for the electrical polarization process... there are no missing or extra electrons...  yet... you only get that point with the resonant compounding action when the out coming gas is striped of electrons which by collision upon other molecules there split them by collision (maybe is not the right name i can't remember now the correct terminology) something like electron detachment ... ) substituting one electron of the molecule ejecting one hydrogen atom and leaving the molecule (charged) unstable so the next rising electric fields cycle got to break it.. with the electron extraction circuit than you get a net charge so molecules come out with electrical charge...like wise a current flowing in a wire the gas flowing in a tube would generate a magnetic field... since is net charged.. 


i learned all this in an optative course in the university at the center for nuclear research course called chemistry of radiations...


you have than monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen that subsequently forms diatomic molecules liberating heat and coming out as a bubble...

sodium hydroxide is not able to electro plate to the electrode so it ionize another molecule and stay in the reaction..

the point is how to charge the water molecules? till the point where this happens?

hey another interesting thing is that there will be no positive until start raining it becomes positive because of the uv makes everything to be somehow ionized and water catch those free electrons because of its dielectric value and form clusters... drops... when the drops fall you start to get the positive zone... this is way very interesting

thanks massive for the link

so in the end there is no hydrogen by ionization or anything.... only a very huge arc channeled thru rain connecting the oxygen and nitrogen ionized upther to ground... this is than may be how we geenerate the ozone layer..

if we had an insulated lake and a ground we woud have electricity...

i see your point of view...

when i asked about the pulse electrolysis its because i found that if you rever the fields for example the gas will be gerenated only at very low frequenciesl...

the hydrogen question regards the fact that everything on earth is hold by gravity even our atmosphere...

if hydrogen is released and not burned or chemically somehow re-used in the mean time.. what happens is that it will scape to space since its lighter than oxygen nitrogen hellium and ozone...

thats why is so seriious this tecnology must prevent this from happening at all cost.. liberating hydrogen to space is decreasing gravity force for example...

actually even changing the gases in te atmosphere like we did since industrial revulution interfere somehow since we change their weight and high

and about the strenght of water molecule... it has really very higher strenght than air so yes like i said to you my understanding and logic tells me that the clouds charge by the same action of the kelving water dropper.. but the vapors brings the charge up... than when there is enough charge this is balanced by a lightening  strike...

we are free to create new theory and i would love to see it proving how this is working for real but today there is very little understanding in my opinion too..

Hello massive i took a look into that but its just the same price if you look at it... and probably would take much longer to get here... so far non has also that voltage range..

i´m selling somethings here like nobreaks and old stuff we got from a closed automobil factory but the selling is almost zero... i have swiches... and television broadcast euipments but very hard to find someone who wold buy it...

hopefully soon i can get something sold.. and complete the donations to get a nice probe.. i already have a 40kv probe.. but is not differentiall..this probe i pay 150euros in 2006 and still good... and i´ll use it up to i get the other..  and after..

never heard about that process.. i know that they form hydrogen from water and natural gas at 400degree celcius.. with a cobalt catalyser.... but the hydrogen has still carbon and cannot be used for fuel cells for example...

my thoughts on water temperature is that its related to the vibration of the molecules...

heat is vibration energy... but higher frequency than microwaves.... so is the vibration in other directions than just rotating....

you make me think about the steam resonantor and why the heck he needed it? should water get into the cell hot?

Hello

i though a lot over this picture too... it comes from one of those new videos of stanley meyer where he shows his gms circuit...

it apears too me like the representations of spark gaps somehow...

it also seem to have a capacitor in parallel with the cell...

yes its by itself a dimensionless unity! whats the point?

its relative permeability... how much it is greater than vacuum so is just a factor number but of course this value has some implications...

but must be used aways multiplied by Eo giving Er*Eo= absolute permeability...

Mr hydrocar

i had in italy two plate cell that i connected to a full wave bridge rectifier and straight to the wall 50hz 220v

what i see is 3 amps 220v evaporating more than 1 liter every 15 minutes.. some small gas also was being produced... 3 amps dc

to boil 1 liter of water you need over 2kw isn't it right?

Meyer talked straight about electronegativity of the oxigen explaining that the positive charge of its nucleus forces the hydrogen electron to stay within its orbits more than on hydrogen orbits.. this only occur because the electrons of oxygen and hydrogen have opposite spin so the spins can cancel and allow the situation of water molecule formed to be a situation of smaller energy than the separated gases.

Covalent bounds are strong but weaker than ionic bound  only materials that are ionicaly bounded has greater electronegativity diference such that the atoms totally steal the electron from the other atom totally...

Meyer said water could be split because of this sharing existence

He specifically say that whenever the water molecule lose one electron momentarily the covalent bound ceases to exist than he says that the atoms regain their lost electrons stabilize and exit as gas.

  Here what he say is kind of a problem because is likely very hard to take this electrons away for a moment or at least it would theoretically takes lots of force to achieving it