Hello Dynodon, i know you saw them and i actually believe that might be possible to do it with ss. I just think that maybe along the years maybe his cells could have being changed to SS or maybe there was a coating on the inside of the electrodes and it were taken off just to make the thing stop working... I don't really know, just think is possible. Or maybe it can work with ss and maybe stan or someone changed the things to not work and keep the secret... The strange thing is that from stan words its very possible to do work but one must be not only an electrical engineer to correctly design the circuit but must be also a physicist with knowledge in real particle acceleration and plasma to understand fully and be able to replicate what he did. He talks to those with really knowledge in the art.
When i say kinetically trapped i mean the ions must get into the vacancies of the metal much like cold fusion when deuterium get into the palladium "absorbed". When i first heard about cold fusion i don't remember when, I heard that a hell of energy could be generated but not only heat but also electricity since than i never heard anything about it to generate electricity directly. Anyway stan said it was possible so as my friend so i start from the point that i believe them and started dissecting to find what really happens to be able to do this. My friend said that with the right materials and his secret the thing works, when i asked him about ss he said he didn't know how to do with it, i think that for the same reason i said.
The thing is that SS is an alloy or mixture of different metals witch have different masses sizes so the vacancies are much smaller so the probability of trapping ions there are not pretty big. On the other side is known that the D orbit of the platinum kind attracts the hydrogen thats why it works as a catalyst. So thats what i'm saying maybe the SS is enough to make the reaction, but if we were to potentialize the effect to be able to see better the effect maybe some other materials should be used at least at first to understand better whats going on.
Voltage is = to separation of given density of charge.
Hello AncientMist,
I think the resonance is used not only to create the high potential but also for being able to take advantage of the energy created there to make the potential even higher. Under resonance you can recirculate the energy, basically is a very big storage mean able to store many kw of power for 100 of cycles..
Yes and Another thing to consider is the density of the water and the resistance against the movement of the ion to find its maximum speed and maybe even a relativistic adjustment to limit the speed in relation to the speed of light.
You might be even right here and i also think that with proper equipment and a very strong potential you could even work at any frequency but would be very nice to know the maximum frequency and do get there from the math too. =) Go on! Meyer controlled the voltage and the frequency, i think he did this to have perfect control over the impedance to perfectly match and transfer the max force possible to the electric field.
I'm very happy that we are having this discussion my friends. And i can assure all you that very soon all of us will have many reasons to party. We are going to work together in a new economy based on water. I consider all you the most important people in the world so i want you to work with me for a better world.
If you put 12volts on the water and it have a gap of 1mm you have an electric field of 12kv/m. This is a huge force acting on the ions inside the water. The fact is that if the water don't conduct electricity (pure water) you get a very tiny current when you apply 12v however you are providing the separation of the ions h+ and oh-. What stan do is to than collect this ions generating electricity while stabilizing and or destabilizing the ions. When you close the circuit you generate the gas. Stan went even further and used the heating element to avoid the stabilization of the gases so they came out of the water as ions as electrons are emited cause of the heat. Is very much like creating a fusion reaction between the two sides of the coin so thats why he could run a car with very small amount of gas. I found a formula for particle acceleration that say acceleration is equal to the charge of the particle divided by its mass than multiplied by the electric field. Basically is right however the acceleration would be limitless being even much bigger than that of light speed. So all this to say stan used some of the proton 938Mev and electron 511Kev rest energy to cause thermal expansion. The total energy of a particle is its kinetic energy plus its rest energy. If you apply 12v on a particle it will travel from one electrode to the other and when it complete the travel it will have a kinetic energy of 12ev. 1 ev is = to the value of a charge but is a measure of energy in joules. Ev is charge divided by potential difference. Voltage is how many joules you have per coulomb.
The thing is that if the both voltages across the water being positive and negative have no relation to each other in the sense that it is not connected physically. You can still have a big deal of electric field without current leaking. I mean two transformers or only one with isolated secondaries connected only with one wire obviously thru a diode. Maybe two 100Mohm resistor are needed just to complete the circuit.
I'm trying to find how to calculate the ions speed as to find the frequency you can apply. WIth the right equipment and materials i could determine this empirically, however the investors are still afraid. Soon i will have a lab with limitless funds and a mathematician friend to work on it than will be very easy.
The real big problem is that you must trap the ions kinetically so they can become electricity. Stan used the coil so he could short the circuit without shorting the source. When he shorted the circuit the coil start to get charged and when he opened the coil discharge again. This is what he meant by restrict the current in a dead short condition, and frequency doubling. Now that i have more time i would like to work on this but i don't have a decent oscilloscope nor money to buy more components. Hopefully a good soul will invest in me soon.
I'm quite certain that stan didn't used SS or at least that is not the best option. Maybe and i say only maybe he succeeded in creating so much force that even the SS worked.
The thing is that you apply 12v and lets say during the charge of the water 1ma flowed, This mean that than all the ions of the water will be glued on the electrodes, with contrary same voltage and with much greater current thus more electrical energy than went in.
Steve once connected the oscilloscope to the water applied maybe 12 volts and than disconnected and than noticed something that at that time we discussed and thought to be a back emf. Well it wasn't, it was the real voltage of the ions. This pretty much prove what i'm saying.
I'm glad you understood it AnsientMist. If you read my last 20 posts you might understand even more. I'm trying to explain this since a long time.
I think we should work with a water very very pure maybe using 1000volts this complicate a bit the switching.
All you are saying is correct, but second my theory what actually happens is that the water actually elongate yes but by induction charging, The field zones attracts the respective atom and repel the electrovalent pair of electrons and vice versa therefore, theoretically when you elongate the water and than just turn off the fields, the water will try to de-elongate but doing so as the time share rate of the covalent electrons in the oxygen atom was initially affected (dipole) covalent switch off when the water "relax" the hydrogen have the ability of taking its electron to its orbit therefor it become neutrally charged and become gas.
The water will not actually have current passing thru it, therefore I don't believe anymore it has much to do with RC constant, is more like, the LC allow you to accumulate energy thereto to increase the electrical potential, not only this, it also let you to switch the fields in such a way as to restrict the current and let the fields to be applied in opposite phases.
I will show you now a picture that everyone overlooked and it clearly show what I ever said in the last months.
It clearly show that there is a charging choke 56 and the resonant coil that causes the electron inhibition by the characteristics of the technology. As I already describe in the thread resonance cracked. So i'm not going to repeat my self much.
In one coil you have the charging effect cause it forms with the diode and secondary a current source. (infinite impedance output) so if you restrict the current (so if you have high impedance) you will have high voltage cause the current source will aways provide the same current, and as voltage is the product of current and impedance, you get the picture.
The other coil as is resonating don't allow the current to flow cause the phase is opposed so the current cannot flow in both directions at the same time in the wire therefore the cell get net charged, or you can say you have a high voltage with restricted current, Is exactly the same thing if you think about.
The process as i already mentioned is called by stan Electrical polarization process.
But words are words and i'm working to try proving what i'm saying. i hope this weekend i can finish this.
Stan intentionally stopped to represent the electrical ground along the years. The only reason i see for this is that this is the secret.
Again the gate is very important, cause you can control the number of pulses (the voltage level)
The frequency of the gate is not actually of great importance it will depend on your vic and cell, and the volts per pulse you have.
The greater the voltage per pulse the faster can be the gate. Stan said if you want more gas increase the voltage, or increase the frequency. But to do so you need to satisfy to the amount amount of energy in the field.
The fact is that the greater the voltage is the greater will be the module of the acceleration of the ions and the greater will be the energy of the wave they are emitting, as to resonant cavity. made to match the wavelength of this wave coming out of the ions movements. The free ions also suffer the effect of the resonant action so they are there also colliding with the aligned molecules.
When you turn of the voltage they will move to get together again, doing this they collides again!!!
In my point of view it serves to select the number of pulses needed to achieve the water resonance, and tune to allow the water to reset after the repetitive pulse operation.
I believe that the gas is only generated when you gate the train of impulses cause when you do so the atoms will rearrange and get neutrally charged and get out as gas.
It has the frequency variable cause you may want to tune to get the maximum production. Than you can use it as a limit. It is also it is related to safety cause whenever the pressure exceed the value stabilized, the gate will turn off ...
Yet another thing is the electron extraction, witch would work also during gated operatio.
i think the steam resonater was used to keep the water from freezing when the car wasn't in use. To keep the battery from going dead, he needed a way to heat the water without using much energy.
I think that too, but it also become a good way to get instant steam for example, to use as the gas source, cause is much easier to break the bounds of gases if you think about the distances of the molecules.. there's no hydrogen bound anymore.
I found while ago a paper that tells that if you make water vapor out of acid or base solution you develop a charged vapor and the thing become like a Kelvin water dropper...
When the molecules are in gas phase the hydrogen is not attracting the negative lone pair electrons of the oxygen in the neighbor molecule there fore the oxygen electrons in the water molecule will obviously rearrange, cause there is no more hydrogen bound (the bound between molecules not atoms in the molecule) just to be clear, so as the electrons will redistribute the oxygen will certainly became less electronegative.
All this to say that vapor state would be easier to break with only fields than liquid water, but in vast amounts. So to do this a steam tech was created by stan in my opinion, to use for home heating, industrial, and many other applications.
Droplets has many exposed atoms in the boundaries, if you shot a droplet thru an electric field it elongate like stan said, like oil droplets also do, and it gets deflected in the direction of the field if i'm not wrong the positive.
So K.I.S.S. yes but this is only related to look straight to what is needed to accomplish the task and not to make rocket science of it so don't wast time is what should mean.
If the parametric exitation is possible, than for the alternator to work the speed of the drive motor should be controlled of fine tune by having a frequency to voltage converter and or phase comparator to fine tune the movement to the resonance. But for me seems very over complicated design.
The thing is that inductance is the number of turns squared divided by the reluctance, so the smaller it is the greater will be the inductance. However the fields are complicated concept in the sense that nothing says that it really exist. The energy you input in a component is inside it somewhere distributed, If you add a lamination of iron inside the transformer you wont need to do work to do so and you would increase the inductance, like naudin said in the 90's but only in one cycle, and here is the problem. If you make the core to oscillate maybe having some springs in it and to the resonant frequency to the spring resonance, you could actually insert and take out the core, much like a speaker works... I already thought of this but didn't build it, i called the vibration transformer or something like that.
I will try to find out more about this parametric component of the equation..
I'm not sure if actually you will get more energy out, but certainly is not the same thing as was tested before so should be tested further.
in a dead short condition you can pull lot of amps thru it cant you?...
All comes back to the theories i was testing in the past of my very first thread here in the forum.
I was on something cause i could push 20 amps thru the water having only 1,44v across the plates... the video you find on youtube... named power...
The main problem is the ionic current that flows thru the water... I believe meyer was talking about this when he speaks restrict the current. Pure water is a good start, but there are other required means...
Hi Dave, The voltages are as in the photo gauges, 12v in, 1-2 amp in, 25ma at the tube. My PLL crapped out so I'm stalled again. Gas is 1/2 that of a 8XA ferrite micrometals torroid at 12v in, 1amp in, 25ma at the tube. I'm still thinking that it is normal electroylsis. For example, with my 8XA I can run 3amp in and 200ma at the tube and do 100x more gas. kb
Nice to see you are getting good results. I suggest you to put your pll circuit and the mosfet with heat sync in a wood box. I think it makes less static electricity. well since i did this i didn't burned the circuits anymore...
seems like, if the drain of the mosfet( normaly the mounting hole) has contact with the wood, it will form a wood capacitor to somewhere else where the ground is... is a good thing..
Meyer in any moment assumed to be a fraud. This is much important. He simply was not willing to explain the technology to prove he was right and maybe was taking more time than expected by the investors. The system is so simple that if he simply explained the working parts and its functions become obvious for one with basic science knowledge.
Stan worked in many different systems, maybe you are confusing a bit...
The energy come from the space time anyway according to our theory, in electromagnetic field form. As voltage potential is not "consumed" in an electronic circuit, while still realize work in terms of force. This work derives from the same energy source that accelerates a gauss gun for example.
To know what you can do with the space-time you need to learn its rules... faraday and tesla left one of the greatest indications of its nature on their experiments with induction...
A permanent magnet is not magnetic it self, IT INTERACTS with space and it lets the magnetic proprieties of space time to become evident and take place at that specific space... But is understood that this magnetism is not free to move anyway it is permanently bound to the fabric or structure of the space time. If you change the permanent magnet position than you are showing the magnetism of another portion of space-time...
In the gauss gun example, if you take the analogy to gravity force, you get energy in joules= mass * Gravity * Height than its clear that as the height changes energy is coming from somewhere to accelerate the mass, we call it gravity... but the energy is coming from where? I mean the force field is there but when it acts energy is coming to sustain the condition that it still attracting...
In the electromagnetic case the force increase squarely as the distance decrease linearly...
"Our" current systems, are limited to thermodynamics laws because they use movement as the only existent source of the energy and uses this electromagnetic proprieties only to mechanically move electrons in a wire... Thereto is clear that classical mechanics will explain your decrease in energy because of conservation of momentum and so on... but is not valid for all kind of machines that we are able to create if we mind the space time proprieties.
To increase the capacitance, you can do what people call mysteriously "conditioning" your cell. This means operate your cell reversing periodically the dc supply, alternating between caustic and acidic baths. This is not for achieving oxide coating like they say... What will happen is that you will corrode the stainless steel to increase the surface area.
There is no oxide remain. Except the oxygen barrier from the passivation layer witch forms soon or later on stainless steel, derived from the chromium and nickel alloying proprieties.
I disagree on the potency of the gas... Hydrogen is a big bang...
From the info stan released about the buggy, it consumed 44,4ml of water per minute at 3000rpm at 100km/h or so...
At this 3000 rpm You have combustion in a pair of chambers in during the first rotation than another pair at the second turn... so you get 1500 combustion cycles in each chamber or 6000 combustions per minute...
If now we assume that round value that water in gaseous form become 1800x bigger, we take the 0,0444L per minute multiply by 1800 we get around 80Liters per minute of oxygen hydrogen mix, now divide this number by 6000 cycles per minute... we get only 13,3ml of gas per injection... which represents 7,4microliter of water per injection.
If you get a 1600cc engine it get 4x 400cc chambers
I understand Steve. I had this idea myself some while ago, however studying more i noticed that is serious violation of the conservation of energy...
Actually many thought in the past that when water gas explode it becomes liquid water again, forming vacuum as result, actually its not true. The h2 and 02 liberates heat than it forms a super heated dry steam, that heats up the air and water vapor (humidity) to cause the pressure that pull down the piston. The heat derived from the combustion creates the extra pressure.
I thought this in the past if you add some right amount of vapor and pure H2 O2 or a mixture with some air, than all the energy of the gas will be transformed into pressure... Actually the vapor must be injected at a temperature where it becomes liquid under the compression pressure so it takes "little" energy to expand 1800 times.
So you need heat and H2 O2... I published in the past somewhere, and later abandoned the idea... The problems is that under pressure the temperature required for this vapor to expand is greater than 100°C so you need to generate the vapor and heat it somehow before injection.
Than the heat it must absorb to expand is given by the combustion of a certain amount of H2 O2.. .how much?
Well reason tell me that the heat must not be enough to make it detonates... The fact is that when the engine finish the compression cycle and the vapor get liquified by the compression, it than rapidly absorbs the energy from the combustion while still remaining liquid, when the pressure starts to drop due to the engine keep turning, the water get expand while pulling down the piston.
well it seems great!
However notice how first the vapor got to become liquid by compression!
The benefit to it might be that water might be able to absorb the energy more rapidly... And thus this phase transition will provide the pull force and not the heat expanding the gas... with "no" phase change...
If we had enough energy we could do this. Anyway If we had enough energy we could run it electrically.... Or with soap bubbles if we wanted.
When gasoline is burned a big amount of water vapor is formed.
I'm not sure if it will or not work but this is my analysis of it...
Many ideas is nice as you first think of it, later analyzing the problems start to arise.
Whatever physical phenomena can and must be explained. If it indeed can't be explained basically it can't be used. Despite it work or not. Not all patents are true, many of them are just ideas. Many of, from some rich guy with no scientific background who wanted to register his "great" idea.
There are many examples...
Some of them are just ideas which got patented for raising investors interest in the research... And don't work at all. Many people earn money for keep researching things that practically won't work.
Bros, i can tell you that in this particular document he is indeed hitting the capacitance RC constant for maximum current to flow. But not using resonance since the cell is discharging in itself...
I guess it runs worst because probably theres too much water content in the gas... or the burn rate is wrong...
Probably the intake of the engine should have a valve to regulate the amount air going into the mixture... probably some vacuum would be required to achieve the best mix... maybe some pressure charging..
Actually sub-sequential ionization is possible if the relation between electric field and mean free path is right. This mean that most the molecules in the volume will get ionized at once by a cascading event... however if this happens it should appear to the source as a short circuit, since ionized atoms will hit the cathode and extract electrons from it.
A forum member use to tell this theory in the past, without knowing this high current problem... since he never came across it.
If you think about this is where a choke is needed in home laser devices, to impede shorting the source... since the coil will fight changes in current.
with water should be the same? raise the volts up to the point where current flows?