I have saw this before. He simply transmit the electricity and the diode receive like a antenna but as it rectifies you see the bubbles coming out of the water. I don't really see anything special. What you think about the video? I'm missing something?
This night kept thinking to the exhaustion about how the vic sync could be in resonance.
I guess i found why.
Being the drawing i made in page two of this thread correct.
I split it into two half wave resonance.
I made some calculations using 5 khz as the base. And i thought of this!
The side having the water capacitor being the water capacitor 1,6nf, the coils and choke must totalize 600mh This comprise The amp inhibiting coil one piece of the secondary of the transformer and the upper choke.
The other side being the outside capacitance 300pf the coils must totalize 3,3H Being the Amp inhibiting coil, the bigger piece of secondary and the lower choke.
Basically i think the secondary and the bottom choke must be bigger if all this is correct.
This way everything will resonate.
differently
If the amp inhibiting coil go instead to the outside of the container. Witch i think is very possible.
Than the figure would be different. By obvious reasons. The thing is that half the circuit inductance multiplied by the respective capacitance must equal the other half inductance multiplied by the other respective capacitance. As the capacitances are different the coils must agree to make everything resonate at the same frequency.
I'm thinking about the possibility of some of the chokes or even the amp inhibiting coil making part of the same transformer.
I will call the Amp Inhibiting coil from now AIC
The variable resonant charging choke VRCC
The resonant charging choke RCC
I say this because whenever you have a choke after a diode in the same core, the voltage become kind of limitless.
What could also be is that the transformer is one core, the RCC chokes another core and the AIC another core, or at least this in the same core of the transformer.
Well, I don't know. I believe we should try all the possibilities exhaustively.
However my best guess is that the AIC go to the tube and not outside. And that possibly the outer and inner tube could be reversed polarity maybe being the inside 0v. Again many things to be tested. Everything must be draw analyzed and take notes.
I'm trying to think about the relation to Van de Graf charging.
I mean, as there are two capacitors one inside the other, something tell me that when we charge the inner capacitor the outer will get charged as well. I'm not pretty sure...
A Van the Graf generator accumulate Voltage by inputing charge in the middle of the ball, as it is conductive, the law of physics say that no charge will remain inside a conductor. So every time you go there to put a charge on it it will accept as there will never be a charge inside of it.
The thing is that i don't understand what charge can be placed there, negative? well i'm trying to find out what really happens, since 5 years i think is related and now that i found this relation between the outer capacitance, i think it more than ever.
I think that only with an electrostatic voltmeter we can measure accurately the water charge, and the tubes charge. As they only measure the voltage from the force of the field therefore without flow of charges.
Static build-up in flowing flammable and ignitable materials Discharge of static electricity can create severe hazards in those industries dealing with flammable substances, where a small electrical spark may ignite explosive mixtures.[9] The flowing movement of finely powdered substances or low conductivity fluids in pipes or through mechanical agitation can build up static electricity.[10] Dust clouds of finely powdered substances can become combustible or explosive. When there is a static discharge in a dust or vapor cloud, explosions have occurred. Among the major industrial incidents that have occurred are: a grain silo in southwest France, a paint plant in Thailand, a factory making fiberglass moldings in Canada, a storage tank explosion in Glenpool, Oklahoma in 2003, and a portable tank filling operation and a tank farm in Des Moines, Iowa andValley Center, Kansas in 2007.[11][12][13] The ability of a fluid to retain an electrostatic charge depends on its electrical conductivity. When low conductivity fluids flow through pipelines or are mechanically agitated, contact-induced charge separation called flow electrification occurs.[14] Fluids that have low electrical conductivity (below 50 picosiemens per meter), are called accumulators. Fluids having conductivities above 50 pS/m are called non-accumulators. In non-accumulators, charges recombine as fast as they are separated and hence electrostatic charge accumulation is not significant. In the petrochemical industry, 50 pS/m is the recommended minimum value of electrical conductivity for adequate removal of charge from a fluid. Kerosines may have conductivity ranging from less than 1 picosiemens per meter to 20 pS/m. For comparison, deionized water has a conductivity of about 10,000,000 pS/m or 10 µS/m. Transformer oil is part of the electrical insulation system of large power transformers and other electrical apparatus. Re-filling of large apparatus requires precautions against electrostatic charging of the fluid, which may damage sensitive transformer insulation. An important concept for insulating fluids is the static relaxation time. This is similar to the time constant (tau) within an RC circuit. For insulating materials, it is the ratio of the static dielectric (The relative permittivity of a material for a frequency of zero is known as its static relative permittivity or as its dielectric constant)[/color][/font]constant divided by the electrical conductivity of the material. For hydrocarbon fluids, this is sometimes approximated by dividing the number 18 by the electrical conductivity of the fluid. Thus a fluid that has an electrical conductivity of 1 pS/m has an estimated relaxation time of about 18 seconds. The excess charge in a fluid dissipates almost completely after four to five times the relaxation time, or 90 seconds for the fluid in the above example.Charge generation increases at higher fluid velocities and larger pipe diameters, becoming quite significant in pipes 8 inches (200 mm) or larger. Static charge generation in these systems is best controlled by limiting fluid velocity. The British standard * PD CLC/TR 50404:2003 (formerly * -5958-Part 2) Code of Practice for Control of Undesirable Static Electricity prescribes pipe flow velocity limits. Because water content has a large impact on the fluids dielectric constant, the recommended velocity for hydrocarbon fluids containing water should be limited to 1 meter per second. Bonding and earthing are the usual ways charge buildup can be prevented. For fluids with electrical conductivity below 10 pS/m, bonding and earthing are not adequate for charge dissipation, and anti-static additives may be required.I read this yesterday in my friend house, I think is very related.
Fueling operations The flowing movement of flammable liquids like gasoline inside a pipe can build up static electricity. Non-polar liquids such as paraffin, gasoline, toluene, xylene, diesel, kerosene and light crude oils exhibit significant ability for charge accumulation and charge retention during high velocity flow. Static electricity can discharge into a fuel vapor.[16] When the electrostatic discharge energy is high enough, it can ignite a fuel vapor and air mixture. Different fuels have different flammable limits and require different levels of electrostatic discharge energy to ignite. Electrostatic discharge while fueling with gasoline is a present danger at gas stations. Fires have also been started at airports while refueling aircraft with kerosene. New grounding technologies, the use of conducting materials, and the addition of anti-static additives help to prevent or safely dissipate the build up of static electricity. The flowing movement of gases in pipes alone creates little, if any, static electricity.[17] It is envisaged that a charge generation mechanism only occurs when solid particles or liquid droplets are carried in the gas stream.
So i'm taking about increase the free charge of the water by taking out electrons from the water bath. Hope is clear enough.
The object is the water bath as a whole so you must mind that you do have a capacitance between the inside and the outside. So if you will take out electrons from the water must be in relation to this capacitance.
Just found one definition to what i'm taking about.
Even when an object's net charge is zero, charge can be distributed non-uniformly in the object (e.g., due to an external electromagnetic field, or bound polar molecules). In such cases the object is said to be polarized. The charge due to polarization is known as bound charge, while charge on an object produced by electrons gained or lost from outside the object is called free charge. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge Free charge!
Is the classical example of Electrification by friction
There are essentially four basic kinds of polarization mechanisms: Interface polarization. Surfaces, grain boundaries, interphase boundaries (including the surface of precipitates) may be charged, i.e. they contain dipoles which may become oriented to some degree in an external field and thus contribute to the polarization of the material. Electronic polarization, also called atom or atomic polarization. An electrical field will always displace the center of charge of the electrons with respect to the nucleus and thus induce a dipole moment as discussed before. Theparadigmatic materials for the simple case of atoms with a spherical symmetry are the noble gases in all aggregate forms. Ionic polarization. In this case a (solid) material must have some ionic character. It then automatically has internal dipoles, but these built-in dipoles exactly cancel each other and are unable to rotate. The external field then induces net dipoles by slightly displacing the ions from their rest position. The paradigmatic materials are all simple ionic crystals like NaCl. Orientation polarization. Here the (usually liquid or gaseous) material must have natural dipoles which can rotate freely. In thermal equilibrium, the dipoles will be randomly oriented and thus carry no net polarization. The external field aligns these dipoles to some extent and thus induces a polarization of the material. The paradigmatic material is water, i.e. H2O in its liquid form. Some or all of these mechanisms may act simultaneously. Atomic polarization, e.g., is always present in any material and thus becomes superimposed on whatever other mechanism there might be. Real materials thus can be very complicated in their dielectric behavior. In particular, non-spherical atoms
I think that any 100kv source is ok it only need to supply for charging the water quick, than a spark gap sequentially discharge the water when desired voltage is reached.
here i have 1000 volts instantaneously and thus 0 amp flow. i just need higher voltage source. i need to re assembly some coils on the flyback core i have to achieve at least 50kv than i will add some choke to see if it become volt less, the only problem i see is the insulation.
The capacitance between the tubes inside and the container outside is around 300pf as i have only a small pair Measured. The capacitance between tubes should be around 1,8nf (calculated).
If i charge the electrodes in relation to the container up to 40kv i have 12 micro-coulombs of charge inside the water.
So if can consume this electrons the next time the water will have even more charge, Positive.
In my test i could charge the bath to 120v but i think is that my transformer have to many turns on the primary for the voltage i'm using. Wish a variac to work from the wall.
Stan talkes about taking electrons out of the water bath.
If you have a piece of acrylic and rub in your hair it takes on an electric charge don't it takes? And it don't discharge because around it there is only air witch is an insulator.
Is the same thing with the water but as it is liquid we cannot rub it, so we need to use the voltage to do it.
You agree with me that the tubes inside the water have a capacitance in relation to each other but they also have a capacitance in reference to the outside of the container. So if you add a conductor around the container the water become the electrode and part of the capacitance. But happens that you can charge the water in this way cause water will lose its electrons as it is part of the electrode.
I think that this electrostatic charge on the electrode is the responsible for the accumulation of the ions on the electrodes. I mean that dirt on the electrodes.
So he charges the water and discharge sequentially in order to give to the water an ever increasing charge.
I'm finishing the prototype to prove what i'm saying it will only have one pair of tubes inside that acrylic container with aluminum paper around it, it now have a connection that i soldered on a copper foil strip.
Very soon i will be able to be certain of what i'm saying just need to focus a bit.
I'm only saying what he wrote in the patents, water bath ... I think that anyone tried this this way before.
Thats why i'm saying that maybe fast freddy did it.
If the thing work i will show in a video.
Thanks Don for effort correcting me, my hope is to help enlightening your ideas. Please don't stop. Ask your self all the possibilities.
All this make me be very certain that the variable inductor or resistor is to control the voltage field on the negative electrode. As if you apply a negative electric field in the negative electrode you will repel electrons coming from the current so it restrict the amps by repelling the electrons!!!
When a charge is applied to a capacitor, the electrical charge of the capacitor equals the applied voltage charge; in a water capacitor, the dielectric property of water resists the flow of amps in the circuit, and the water molecule itself, because it has polarity fields formed by the relationship of hydrogen and oxygen in the covalent bond, and an intrinsic dielectric property, becomes part of the electrical circuit, analogous to a "microcapacitor" within the capacitor defined by the plates. [/size] [/size]In the isolated water bath, the water molecule takes on charge, and the charge increases. The object of the process is to switch off the co-valent bonding of the water molecule and interrupt the sub-atomic force, i.e. the electrical force or electromagnetic force, that binds the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to form a molecule so that the hydrogen and oxygen separate. [/size] [/size]By being so subjected to electrical pulses in the circuit of FIG. 1, water confined in the volume that includes the capacitor plates takes on an electrical charge that is increased by a step charging phenomenon occurring in the water capacitor. Voltage continually increases (to about 1000 volts and more) and the water molecule starts to elongate. [/size] [/size]In the process, electrons are extracted from the water bath; electrons are not consumed nor are electrons introduced into the water bath by the circuit as electrons are conventionally introduced in an electrolysis process [/size] [/size] [/size]Now i ask you: [/size]Is he or isn't he talking about the charge on the water inside the volume?
You agree with me that water conducts even if it is very pure. This means that there are free electrons there. Yet water is a dielectric and as a dielectric it can take on a charge. This is the charge stan is talking about. Stan charge the bath and discharge thru an arc maybe Sequentially to be able to leave on the water a very high positive charge. The electrode it self will miss electrons and therefore a field area is formed.
When the charge in the water is greater than the electrical forces the water will split apart by it self.
The electrons that flow because of electrolysis are not related. Well actually they are but is not about them that i'm talking about...
You must think about water like an acrylic rod that you can rub and it get a charge.
I think that stan took advantage of the prof. Van de Graf findings about the fact that no charge exist inside a conductor, thus if you apply the charge inside the conductor you can theoretically keep adding charge indefinitely. This is what i'm talking about when i say the thing related to the capacitance inside the capacitance.. .
So basically, yes there are electrons in the water bath so you can charge the water by applying a single wire with high voltage up to a certain degree as described earlier. There are also electrons in the electrodes and being able to extract some of those electrons would be good too. With the vic you can create max possible voltage possible the basic requisite for the electron extraction, so doing this sequentially you can create a very high charge on the water.
In the isolated water bath, the water molecule takes on charge, and the charge increases. The object of the process is to switch off the co-valent bonding of the water molecule and interrupt the sub-atomic force, i.e. the electrical force or electromagnetic force, that binds the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to form a molecule so that the hydrogen and oxygen separate. [/size]Because an electron will only occupy a certain electron shell (the shells are well known) the voltage applied to the capacitor affects the electrical forces inherent in the co-valent bond. As a result of the charge applied by the plates, the applied force becomes greater than the force of the co-valent bonds between the atom of the water molecule; and the water molecule becomes elongated. When this happens, the time share ratio of the electrons between the atoms and the electron shells is modified. [/size]In the process, electrons are extracted from the water bath; electrons are not consumed nor are electrons introduced into the water bath by the circuit as electrons are conventionally introduced in an electrolysis process. There may nevertheless occur a leakage current through the water. Those hydrogen atoms missing electrons become neutralized; and atoms are liberated from the water. The charged atoms and electrons are attracted to opposite polarity voltage zones created between the capacitor plates. The electrons formerly shared by atoms in the water co-valent bond are re-allocated such that neutral elemental gases are liberated. [/size]In the process, the electrical resonance may be reached at all levels of voltage potential. The overall circuit is characterized as a "resonant charging choke" circuit which is an inductor in series with a capacitor that produces a resonant circuit. [SAMS Modern Dictionary of Electronics, Rudolff Garff, .COPYRGT. 1984, Howard W. Sams & Co. (Indianapolis, Ind.), page 859.]Such a resonant charging choke is on each side of the capacitor. In the circuit, the diode acts as a switch that allows the magnetic field produced in the inductor to collapse, thereby doubling the pulse frequency and preventing the capacitor from discharging. In this manner a continuous voltage is produced across the capacitor plates in the water bath; and the capacitor does not discharge. The water molecules are thus subjected to a continuously charged field until the breakdown of the co-valent bond occurs. [/size]As noted initially, the capacitance depends on the dielectric properties of the water and the size and separation of the conductive elements forming the water capacitor. [/size]EXAMPLE I [/size]In an example of the circuit of FIG. 1 (in which other circuit element specifications are provided above), two concentric cylinders 4 inches long formed the water capacitor of the fuel cell in the volume of water. The outside cylinder was 0.75 inch in outside diameter; the inner cylinder was 0.5 inch in outside diameter. Spacing from the outside of the inner cylinder to the inner surface of the outside cylinder was 0.0625 inch. Reasonance in the circuit was achieved at a 26 volt applied pulse to the primary coil of the torroid at 0KH.sub.z, and the water molecules disassociated into elemental hydrogen and oxygen and the gas released from the fuel cell comprised a mixture of hydrogen, oxygen from the water molecule, and gases formerly dissolved in the water such as the atmospheric gases or oxygen, nitrogen, and argon. [/size]In achieving resonance in any circuit, as the pulse frequency is adjusted, the flow of amps is minimized and voltage is maximized to a peak. Calculation of the resonance frequency of an overall circuit is determined by known means; different cavities have a different frequencY of resonance dependent on parameters of the water dielectric, plate size, configuration and distance, circuit inductors, and the like. Control of the production of fuel gas is determined by variation of the period of time between a train of pulses, pulse amplitude and capacitor plate size and configuration, with corresponding value adjustments to other circuit components. [/size]The wiper arm on the second inductor tunes the circuit and accommodates to contaminants in water so that the charge is always applied to the capacitor. The voltage applied determines the rate of breakdown of the molecule into its atomic components. As water in the cell is consumed, it is replaced by any appropriate means or control system. [/size]Variations of the process and apparatus may be evident to those skilled in the art.
All you said is also correct except that the process of using voltage to pull apart the molecule include the need for an isolated ground and thus suggest automatically that when he mention water bath he includes all the water molecules, And Polarization mean imbalance of electrons. If stan called it electrical polarization process is because is exactly what it do. It do has to do with extracting electrons from the water bath you read that many times in the patents...