LIGHTNING THEORY , the THUNDERBIRD!!
Started by unknown · · 16 posts · last reply 10 September 2015
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#1 ·
Hi ho people,
there used to be the theory that lightning sparated water molecules into gas and that is ignited by the strike but that theory keeps getting tossed aside yet science cant demonstrate sizeable lightning stikes only large HV discharge
this site st least touches on the subject just by mentioning it.....
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_info/thunder2.html
Quote .....
"Early Theories
Early man probably considered lightning to be the ultimate weapon or a weapon of their gods. The Navajo Native Americans believed the Thunderbird, a mythical bird, flapped its wings and created the sound of thunder and the source of lightning was reflected sunlight from its eyes. It was the Norse God Thor, the Greek God Zeus, and the Roman God Jupiter who wielded the mighty bolt of lightning to keep man in his place. There continues today a phrase about lightning coming from a supernatural or divine power. The phrase goes something like: "Let lightning strike me if I'm ______." The word 'bolt', often used to describe lightning, has no meaning in meteorology and is an inappropriately used term.
Some of the earliest theories about thunder originated during the Greek and Roman Empires and from the Viking (Scandinavian) people. Beliefs about thunder included that it occurred before lightning, it was a burning wind, it was caused by the collision of clouds, the sound was produced by resonance between high and low clouds, and by high clouds descending and colliding onto low clouds. By the mid-19th century, the accepted theory was the vacuum theory, whereby lightning produced a vacuum along its path (channel), and thunder was due to the subsequent motion of air rushing into the vacuum. The second half of the 19th century saw the steam explosion theory, created when water along the lightning channel was heated and exploded by lightning's heat. Another theory was the chemical explosion theory that suggested gaseous materials were created by lightning and then exploded"
^^^ONLY BRIEF BUT GOOD ENOUGH that the bag is open enough that the cat can see the light
http://sciexplorer.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/lightning-part-3-lightning-bolt.html
^this site goes into ionization of water molecule which is about 10000 miles ahead of the stupid friction of air theory that was dished out at school.
what it does mention tho is electrons from outer space entering the equation ....... what it doesnt go into is TELLURIC CURRENTS , which is something that seems to never be mentioned!!!
a capacitor has a positive and a negative plate of equal opposite charge and when there is a short , it discharges back to zero (ideally in theory) , electrons from space arent generally brought into the equation
Ive spent years watching local lightning storms , closest strikes is about15 metres and about 35 metres . Ive always sided with the chemical explosion theory and wondering how to replicate in a cell .
I have no problem with high current techniques for H2 gas production just not traditional electrolysis
according to science....
frequency of strikes = 100hz approx
60sec x 60min x 24hr = 8,640,000 strikes per day
R resistamce of earth = zero
G reciprocal of R (1/R) = infinite
charge , equal amount of postive and negative charges = net zero
5000 to 200,000 amps
30,000degree C with electron density of 10 ^17 electrons per cm3
there is equal opposite charge beneath our feet to all these lightning strikes
Im big fan of Nathan Stubblefield and similar inventors , many , Tesla being one
science always throws faradays law at electrolysis and H2 cell experimenters and fair enough BUT theres a truck load of current in a lightning strike to perform high speed "electrolysis" / dissociation yet the theory is quickly disposed of.
probably explains why there is so many braches of science , kinda like the mafia has branches
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#2 ·
i have a question... do you think a single lightning strike could break water?
lets think again...
did you ever tried pulsed electrolysis?
the products comes from the amps times the time aplied...
what i mean is that for electrolysis to happen it needs a certain time too..
i too believe the clouds generate a great deal of power raising the imbalances of charges up in the sky by action of the sun...
have you ever seeing a bolt between two clouds? thats when one is positive and the other negative...
i believe the discharge initiate because ionization of the air... when some charged vapour raise up in the air by sun action and reach a certain electric field that makes the all cloud become ionized... just like my cell amplify the ionization reaching of the vic... thereto the electric fields of the clouds and ground or other opositely charged or neutral clouds become significant to create sufficient deflection of the ions.... electrons and whatever in the way..
than simply BANG
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#3 ·
a single lightning strike being the result of electrons stripped from water molecules , then yes the water has already been split and the byproduct being excess electrons
I would venture as far to say the majority of people on this forum have pulsed electrolysis , and yes I have .
the same experiment done repetively will get the same results again and again until the experimenter stops doing the same thing again and again!
there is no electrolysis in the storm cloud
science tells us Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe but then spins around and tells us its unavailable and all the sudden AIR is the source of electrons for lightning
no man knows how many lightning strikes hit per second but what ever it is , the end result is net zero . theres pollution ,water and air in the atmosphere , and that amount of electrical energy generates collosal V and I over time and for science to assume there are no chemical reactions is rediculous!! with simple HV experiments ozone is created .
there most definitely are chemical reactions with anything in contact with lightning . theres a peach tree on this property that had a chemical reaction when lightning struck it
a person will go through a chemical reaction if they get struck
the basis of Meyer experimenters is to use HV to generate H2 from water , IF that is at all possible then why cant nature do it in an open circuit?
If lightning is the result of ionizing Air then does water ionize and release electrons ? this is old theory of chemical explosion is older than stan meyer him self and more than likely the basis of Horvath cell also , and Puharich too
and again there are huge currents running through earth .
IF electrons DO actually enter from outer space then then that negative charge is balanced by what ??
a positive charge proton , from where ?
according to science a pronton is another word for positive hydrogen ion , wheres that gonna come from ?
how about from the water molecule ?
so now what ? theres 1 electron and 1 proton , whats that?
a balanced Hydrogen atom ?
no matter what turns up ,science is there to bamboozle everyone , they say knowledge is power but what I have learnt is , power is corrupt!
the old chemical explosion theory deserves another look into , theres many old theories that have been shelved and not because they are wrong . no doubt the Vatican would have a good store room of suppressed research info -
#4 ·
absolute power corrupts absolutelly
if water does partecipate to the ligthening or not we can try to see if we look at whats around... and i hope i can help you see that water is much harder to break than air so why in hell would water be responsible for the electrons in the discharge?
How ice is formed?
are drops charged?
i do believe that water partetipate creating the charge since the vapor contaning unequal ions does that... but when it discharge we cannot tell if hydrogen was generated in the cloud... i never found any science telling it...
actually the uper layer of atmosphere receives uv at great intensity and it also may help the process;;; but the sun is the source..
if this hydrogen is being generated in the clouds is this hydrogen geting out to space?
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#5 ·
Rule #1 : dont step out of line , it will cost you your career
that applies to physics , meteorology , science , reigion , politics , bussiness , police , sport , banking , chemistry , education ........etc etc
corruption is everywhere in order to do everything
isolated water in mid air is ionized the same way air is , they are side by side and a component
oxygen is present in boh water and air . there is no earthing
I am fully aware of the bond in water , this forum is full of examples of how the process in a closed circuit, is stunted and there is high chance that is not going to change any time soon
water droplets have been charged many a time following the water dropper experiment , again ionization. (the experiment was to demonstrate charges in trying to theorise charges in the atmosphere and therefore lightning)
in the example of lightning , Telluric currents are always neglected or soon forgotten . If there is a positive charge on the ground ,then is a negative charge above and vice versa
lightning storm emits LF , HF ,gamma ray , X ray , theres everything there to inspire Tesla and any other inventor free of charge ;0)
according to science , Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe , does Hydrogen escape into space ?
....diatomic or monatomic , hydrogen negative ion or hydrogen poistive ion / PROTON ?
raises the question where did the Hydrogen come from in the 1st place ?
are we already IN space or does the whole universe revolve around this little rock ?
the chemical explosion theory is a valid one , lightning is followed by thunder , an oddity which sounds not too dissimilar to a bomb going off but no ones supposed to ask or take a guess at what is actually exploding
science has yet to demonstrate lightning , giant tesla coils and van degraff generators are controlled and how the hell is a scientist or team going to recreate thunder ? where would they find enough voltage to prove the theory of colapse
rubbing a balloon with a clothe is like going back to the 1800s
its actually rediculous the hold science and religion has
of course there is energy from UV and the sun and everything else in the universe , this planet is intregral part of everything else that exists any where
again if an electron is entering the atmosphere it has a negative charge , that charge is balanced by a positive charge , that can only be a proton
if that electron is accellerated like they suggest then there is collision with other particles on entering , more theory!
when we break water in experiments, it is only ever in a closed circuit . the closed circuit will continue to demonstrate how difficult it is to separate water doing the same old thing year after year .
It is easy to confirm that staement by simply doing the experiment yet again!
thats self torture .
Im sure there are people who were not aware of the chemical explosion theory and at least they can have a read even though it is only briefly mentioned in half a dozen words .... or less
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#6 · date not recorded
i see your point of view...
when i asked about the pulse electrolysis its because i found that if you rever the fields for example the gas will be gerenated only at very low frequenciesl...
the hydrogen question regards the fact that everything on earth is hold by gravity even our atmosphere...
if hydrogen is released and not burned or chemically somehow re-used in the mean time.. what happens is that it will scape to space since its lighter than oxygen nitrogen hellium and ozone...
thats why is so seriious this tecnology must prevent this from happening at all cost.. liberating hydrogen to space is decreasing gravity force for example...
actually even changing the gases in te atmosphere like we did since industrial revulution interfere somehow since we change their weight and high
and about the strenght of water molecule... it has really very higher strenght than air so yes like i said to you my understanding and logic tells me that the clouds charge by the same action of the kelving water dropper.. but the vapors brings the charge up... than when there is enough charge this is balanced by a lightening strike...
we are free to create new theory and i would love to see it proving how this is working for real but today there is very little understanding in my opinion too..
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#7 ·
the chemical explosion theory is a valid one , lightning is followed by thunder , an oddity which sounds not too dissimilar to a bomb going off but no ones supposed to ask or take a guess at what is actually exploding
When a lightning channel is suddenly filled with mega Joules of energy, the air in that channel moves outwards, at a super sonic speed. This is something we hear as a loud bang. After the discharge, the air pressure returns to normal, but there's nothing to push the air other than atmospheric pressure. This does not produce a bang. The atmosphere's elastic rebound is sub sonic. How much Hydrogen recombination adds to thunder depends on how moist the air was, and how long the ionizing potential takes to decay. -
#8 ·
the exploding wire experimenters deal in mega joules range watt = joule/time (interseting reading on those forums)
I would imagine the strike channel would be dry as a bone but I dont know that in person
I dont know who said it , maybe KEELY .... "sound is the vibration of matter" Kanzius demonstration is still a mystery , alot of the threads about him went straight to the pistol shrimp and then that died away .
no one can say what Kanzius was doing . also sooner or later Keely has to be considered or his theories and inventions are false but that also cant be proven
they say the water content of cumulus cloud is .5 grams per cubic metre
therefore 1 million cubic metre cloud = 5 million grams or 5 ton of water (< should be 500,000gm = .5 ton)
but the specific gravity of water is less than oxygen or nitrogen
the cloud is lighter than the surrounding air
thunder cloud supposedly contains 10 gram water per cubic metre
^^^^ all this is only search material
Lord Kelvin / william Thomson did the water dropper experiment in 1867
I cant find who came up with the chemical explosion theory but Im still searching , probably in book form only
hydrogen is supposed to have the fastest explosion rate of anything , worth adding that to the concept also , but then air / oxidiser is also part of the ratio needed for that chemical reaction
we use Hydrogen based fuel in i.c and c.i engines and its the expansion of AIR we utiilise . again a shock wave
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#9 ·
just a note .... are we the only people alive? only joking
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#10 · date not recorded
heres an article mentioning chemical explosion approx 1880s so its been around a while
http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/weather/tstorm.htm
"The nature of thunder, which seems so clear to us, was actually deciphered at a fairly late date. In the 19th century, many held that the lightning bored a hole in the air, and thunder was the air filling that vacuum. Ridiculous, said others: the electricity actually electrolyzed water to hydrogen and oxygen, which then exploded and produced the thunder. Hirn actually came up with the correct answer is 1888, but was not believed for a while. As late as 1903, it was proposed that thunder was a "steam explosion" produced by the discharge. Although the ancients knew well that light travelled more swiftly than sound, the explanations were more along the line of clouds colliding or ejecting gases when compressed. The concept of clouds as solid bodies seems to be held by many today, if unconsciously, but most people have flown through them by now and know what they are like inside"
theres also ball lightning mentioned and a book by Uman ??
wonder why the call it "thunder cloud" and not "lightning cloud" ? its a bit optimistic , lightning is supposed to happen before thunder
also a paper on evidence of production of peroxide , which is sampled AFTER the event but still shows that there is actual chemical reaction
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703799002744 -
#11 ·
check the patent of john quincy st clair... magnetic wormhole generator he have some interesting regards about lightning and very bizarre effects... hope you like it...
in your link there is a description of the kelving water droper like i mentioned...
its pretty amazing this text
thanks a lot
there you see that the clouds form a dipole but the rain leaks one of the charges of it so it stop screnning the potential of the left charge (also increasing the potential of the dipole)
so it works like the kelving droper but the charge remains in the water that still left to drop..
if that is so maybe the sun heat is only part of the energy source for clouds... the other its the positive polarity it causes to the atmosphere with its UV... -
#12 · date not recorded
hey another interesting thing is that there will be no positive until start raining it becomes positive because of the uv makes everything to be somehow ionized and water catch those free electrons because of its dielectric value and form clusters... drops... when the drops fall you start to get the positive zone... this is way very interesting
thanks massive for the link
so in the end there is no hydrogen by ionization or anything.... only a very huge arc channeled thru rain connecting the oxygen and nitrogen ionized upther to ground... this is than may be how we geenerate the ozone layer..
if we had an insulated lake and a ground we woud have electricity... -
#13 ·
people replicating a HV cell have to have a basis to build upon , why chose HV when the minimum voltage required is 1.23 VDC ?
the smallest voltage theoretically is the electron volt (eV)
the voltage of a lightning strike is a sum total of all the available electrons , 1 electron at a time
both air and water content of lower part of a cloud have electrons stripped , both air and water molecules are ionized , the lightning strike is a flow of current AFTER ionization process is over and done . theres no supply of electrons BEFORE ionization
its self evident but the chemical reactions and ozone is more proof , theres ionization right there
lightning strike is natures example of HV and reactions to air , water , nitrogen ,hydrogen and oxygen .
If HV is to be used in a cell ....... WHY ? to replicate what ?
the desired end result is to generate Hydrogen gas from a self ionizing molecule
lets not forget this is NOT my theory , it is older than the oldest human on the planet
side note..... I was raised on this stuff and has influenced me strongly .
BOB MARLEY LYRICS
"Babylon System"
Babylon system is the vampire, yea!
Suckin' the children day by day, yeah!
Me say: de Babylon system is the vampire, falling empire,
Suckin' the blood of the sufferers, yea-ea-ea-ea-e-ah!
Building church and university, wo-o-ooh, yeah! -
Deceiving the people continually, yea-ea!
Me say them graduatin' thieves and murderers;
Look out now: they suckin' the blood of the sufferers
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#14 ·
both air and water content of lower part of a cloud have electrons stripped , both air and water molecules are ionized , the lightning strike is a flow of current AFTER ionization process is over and done . theres no supply of electrons BEFORE ionization
So you're saying lightning is the RESULT of ionization, rather than the cause? Actually, if lightning were splitting water, it's color would be violet, rather than blue or yellow. Hydrogen, ionized and split from water, adds red to the discharge spectrum. I've actually seen a skinny purple lightning bolt, but these are rare, close to the ground.
Ball lightning, being a Plasmoid, provides a different story. There are many reports of tremendous explosions when ball lightning enters a body of water. Plasmoid has ionizing radiation, and the BL does in fact split water. -
#15 ·
if youve got a combination of oxygen gas ,hydrogen gas and air ,and then introduce a spark , (quite a large spark!) , that gas is going to recombine into water FAST
so ..... NO LIGHTNING is splitting the water molecule so there is no colour (violet , blue , yellow , red )
electrolysis and lightning dont fit , ionization and lightning do
Lightning that has no thunder is called heat lightning / wild fire
they say there are no pics/evidence of ball lightning but that is no evidence to say that it does not exist
no one has seen an electron but the acceted electron theory has been hammered home hard !! no one is "qualified" enough to say it doesnt exist (ball lightning)
Lord Kelvin theory of the vortex comes to mind again with the concept of a ball of electrical energy , yet the vortex was also thrown out , which still doesnt mean the theory is wrong , it just means that is has been by passed in favour of some one elses theory.
I know very little of ball lightning only because I havent applied myself ....
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#16 · date not recorded
last night (20-9-2015) I saw usa 60 minutes about lightning in venezuela and global warmng and lightning harnessing . basically same ol guff you find on any web search but televised .
end of the day science can not say how lightning is triggered , its 2015 and science is still stuck in the same spot.
now either that is completely untrue and they know exactly what triggers lightning
or
..... they simply dont know. < that allows all theories , past and present to have equal standing
Tesla was called a mad man yet 60 minutes shows a professor whos harnessing lightning with Franklins kite style tech , modernised using a rocket and wire
there were colours in some strikes , I would consider neon gas but the atmosphere being as polluted as it is 2015 , I would also consider the amount of pollution as a component from now on .
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