Don, were you able to get a capacitance reading from your cell? using the scope i think there is a method to do it from the discharge time, i haven't tried mine yet.
I'm curious about the wire gage of the primary too, when i made my version of this coil i had to change the primary and i'm not really sure what the target is, i think it may be a good project for me to try this again, after exams...
Dynodon, What do you think of making a vic like that with electrical steel core, like the stuff I bought off of you? Any comments on the function of the circuit that is in between the coils and around the sides?
Dankie he says two things, one of them is right, and one of them is wrong, you think the right one is wrong and the wrong one is right. I'm not going to explain it to you any more.
I should note that you can do vector math of systems of charges, and for electric and magnetic fields, and have net 0 effects, but in the context of what i was trying to explain they don't really fit in, also in the ~4 hours i've been thinking about this i've learned a lot myself, just piecing things together, and i can think of a few things i need to read up on more,
basically the reason for equal and opposite voltage to the cell is to create equal and opposite stress on the oxygen and hydrogen, but they do not cancel out to zero voltage, since the term "zero voltage" would just mean "equilibrium of protons and electrons" while voltage is a unit of "difference" and can be measured between any two points regardless of their equilibrium of protons and electrons. If you have learned about "hho series cells" where they put 12 volts across 6 cells, for 2 volts between each cell, then you'll realize how "voltage" works as a unit of difference.
I also think that there is a bit more going on in Stan's injector, mainly, it screws into the engine block, aka grounded, which would stop you from getting the 20,000- volts, both positive and negative electrodes would have to be insulated from each other as well as the negative electrode insulated from the outside of the injector and thus the engine block. This, or one of them is grounded and 20kv is still enough to rip the water apart.
And on that note, ionized air (missing electrons) in the water fuel mixture can also absorb the milliamps of leaked current that gets past the chokes into the cell.
so, can we conclude the force vectors net zero at the center / 0V, acting on the molecules ?
when the +/- e fields overlap, if that is possible at all, won't that create a net 0 e field vector?
not exactly, there is voltage gradient across the gap, the direction is constant, but the magnitude just happens to switch from positive to negative
voltage means "difference of electrical potential"
so 20+ and 20- volts is the same as 40 volts, (the total difference of electrical potential is 40 volts) but since we "know" that the 20- volts is caused by extra electrons and the 20+ volts is caused by missing electrons then we can understand the distinction
and this is an important distinction because it relates directly to the force on the water molecule
well those are point charges, but you can imagine the same thing for parallel plates (or tubes...), if you have both positive or both negative you will get a pure repulsion force between them, or one of each, positive and negative, where the field is directly across the gap from one side to the other.
two elephants pushing strongly head-on against each other may produce a "two-elephant" system of opposing forces (vectors), where the system is stationary. The system is thus a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero. The same would be true for two fleas pushing against each other and not moving as a system; the system would be a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero.
And here's where the mathematics betrays us, if accepted unQuestioningly. In vector analysis, all vector zeros are identical. Here we are saying that the translatory motions of the flea system and the elephant system are the same. That's true, but there's a whale of a lot of difference in the two systems that must be accounted for physically! If you don't believe that, put yourself in between the two pushing elephants, and see if that's the same as being between the two pushing fleas! You'll certainly notice a lot more stress on you from the elephants than from the fleas.
Dankie, use your own words, use your own understanding. Come up with your own examples and explanations. It's the only way to show you know what you are talking about.
I am not familiar with what 2curious, hdemartin, and Aquapulser are saying, they are not here on this forum, and from everything you say about them it makes me think you arm mixing up different explanations and technologies.
Besides, i spent 7 months listening to other people trying to figure out what Stan was up to, and then i spend 3 months reading Stan's work+physics+electrical on my own and i've learned 100x more from that than i have in the whole 10 months otherwise.
And Aquapulser has some things mixed up as well, and for the injector system he used lasers/leds to ionize the air, and mix that with the water, to be split in the injector, there is no phase coupling between the lasers and the injectors in this system. Also you can't cancel out the energy, if you have an abundance, and a lack, then the energy will be distributed, same with heat, and pressure. I haven't seen any progress from Aquapulser in a long time, they made/modified the Dave Lawton PWM and started selling it... good for them.
Dankie, there is only one current flow, and it is a vector quantity which means it has a direction and a magnitude.
it's direction is from + to -, (where electrons flow opposite to current by definition), and it's magnitude is an "ideal" zero.
Imagine you have a copper rod, and you take all the electrons from one end and put them in the other end, you will have + at one end, and an equal - at the other end. now say you don't let them move, you have an equal and opposite voltage between the ends of the copper rod.
yes, like i said the zero volts is exactly down the center of that diagram of the parallel plates, this means you have positive voltage on one side that pulls on the negative oxygen, and one side that is negative that pulls on the positive hydrogen.
if you had +20 and 0 volts on the plates then there would be an unequal stress on the water molecule, because you have all positive voltage between the plates, only the negative oxygen would be pulled on, and the positive hydrogen would not be pulled on, but instead repelled from everywhere inside the plates.
i don't think you understand yourself what you are trying to say.
ok, if it is repulsion, then you are not using that waveform i just posted, those are equal and opposite voltages, which add together, increasing stress pulling on the water molecule.
if you want a pure repulsion waveform then both plates would have to get the same positive pulses, or same negative pulses.
i assume you are talking about this diagram, which you sent me before, where you have pulses of equal and opposite voltage, if you put this across the plates you will have double the voltage.
and if you think it is a good idea to cancel out the electromagnetic field in the chokes then you have the wrong idea again, the magnetic field of the chokes is to restrict electron flow, what you really want to do is magnify the electromagnetic field as much as possible
if you read tesla's patent on bifilar coils then you will see there are several different ways to wire a bifilar, and if you do it backwards then yes, you will cancel out the electromagnetic field completely, and allow electrons to flow without electromagnetic restriction, which doesn't make any sense if you go to all the effort of using resistive wire to help impede the electron flow and then eliminate your fabulous electromagnetic field
you must wire them bifilar to magnify the electromagnetic field, not eliminate it, otherwise it's not a CHOKE
you know what, I've been thinking about this, and I think you are misunderstanding how it it works, even tho it may work as explained, i think you have the wrong idea in your head.
here is a diagram of some parallel plates with an electric field in between them, q+ and q-, and as you see there is a gradient for the voltage perpendicular to the arrows, while the field lines are in the direction of the arrows, and only in one single line straight down the center is there "zero" volts, and everywhere else there is a + or - voltage.
so 20,000+ volts, and 20,000- volts will not cancle out for zero volts, that just isnt how it works, there is a voltage gradient and only at the center between the plates will you have zero volts.
picture this, you have a rock 20 feet above the ground, and you drop it, when it hits the ground, you are at zero now picture you dig a hole 20 feet down, and you have the same rock 20 feet above the ground, and drop it, it will fall 20 feet to ground level, and then 20 feet down the hole, (-20 feet), but the rock fell a total of 40 feet
so 20+ volts PLUS 20- volts is 40 volts, not zero volts. the voltage does not cancel, it adds.
there is only one spot on the voltage gradient where you have zero volts, and that would be the same as in my explanation, of the ground level.
If you want to talk about electrical stress, then sure, the oxygen is being pulled one way, and the hydrogen the other way, but the voltage does not cancel.
Considering all the progress made on the VIC lately, I don't see any point for this discussion, in a month or two we'll know for sure what's going on with this VIC Coil, since it is the heart of all the WFC technology.
I do think that you have to trust Stan if you really want to understand him and his technology. I've watched his videos at least 3-4 times each, and every time they make more and more sense. Stan explains things in the videos that are not in the Patents.
if he's an oil guy trying it buy it up and shelve it... then that's no good, but i don't think it'll stop us from being successful, we already know enough.
also if he was an oil guy, i don't think he'd look so sloppy, i don't think he'd be sitting there smiling, and i don't think he'd be posting it on the internet, unless of course he was trying o send us a msg, like he is smiling because he knows we are never going to get our hands on that buggy... but oh well, just keep on making progress