Back to Basics
Started by unknown · · 192 posts · last reply 16 December 2024
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#51 ·
I believe Meyer used this gated pulse to control… however from what I’m seeing about how the pll works and how the Q factor should be and how much it can get out of resonance all the time… summed with the patent pll info… I would say the gate must be much longer otherwise it won’t be able to lock if is to few pulses!
I believe the gate period must by at least as long as the sweep or longer
Also the sweeep should be reset by the gate somehow if used that way when the pulses start it always start from low frequency
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#52 ·
i got something nice for you all....
Watch this video, please???? ????a Ma7?don ?_7209599458223377669.mp4
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#53 · date not recorded
I believe Meyer used this gated pulse to control… however from what I’m seeing about how the pll works and how the Q factor should be and how much it can get out of resonance all the time… summed with the patent pll info… I would say the gate must be much longer otherwise it won’t be able to lock if is to few pulses!
I believe the gate period must by at least as long as the sweep or longer
Also the sweeep should be reset by the gate somehow if used that way when the pulses start it always start from low frequency
The voltage across the cell should stay at least as close to electrolysis voltage at all times. The gate pulse should be set accordingly. If the gate is too wide, the charge will dip too low and then you're starting all over again without results. -
#54 · date not recorded
i got something nice for you all....
Watch this video, please
Very interesting… but somehow my computer downloaded a .php file i had to change to .mp4 to watch -
#55 ·
i got something nice for you all....
Watch this video, please
Sextuple AND gating via H11D1 (in the style of bedini 4wave)
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vXpCsLjlgE[/youtube]
Gate frequency is a tone as well. We are playing musical chords to the cell.
Heterodyning: Inputting 2 frequencies and manifesting 2 more. One at their Sum and one at their Difference. (3 + 9 = 6 + 12)
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#56 ·
Very cool sounding… I did some music connecting the pll circuit to a speaker too… sounded a bit different very playable!!!
You sound like chorus effect on guitar may mean your frequencies are not sync…
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#57 · date not recorded
Very cool sounding… I did some music connecting the pll circuit to a speaker too… sounded a bit different very playable!!!
You sound like chorus effect on guitar may mean your frequencies are not sync…
Yea, that's correct. Analog and antique signal generators have drift, due to aging capacitors in the timer and power supply circuits. Some fine adjustment is necessary to get them to sync.
Or perhaps, there is another benefit? That stereo/tremolo effect is wave coherence and the trading of dominance in the mix.
Wave differential creates torque. Actual physical wave energy collisions occurring. -
#58 ·
The resistance of the secondary coil on the main transformer must be less than the resistivity of the water between the electrodes of the cell. Otherwise you will be dumping excess current into the cell. The opposing chokes should be tuned similarly. -
#59 · date not recorded
he? So less then 80 ohms? -
#60 · date not recorded
The water has to be able to resist current flow. The only way that can happen is if the resistivity of the water is greater than the resistance of the power source, in this case the secondary. The secondary needs to be tuned as close as possible to the resistivity of the water without going over to maximize impedance matching, but without going over the resistivity of the water itself. -
#61 · date not recorded
So, if the water resistivity of your cell is 50 ohm, then your secondary needs to be less than 50ohm. -
#62 · date not recorded
thats easy.....take a couple of turns and Bob is your uncle
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#63 · date not recorded
There you go. -
#64 ·
This idea of having the cell match the coil resistance dont make much sense to me... i was thinking about phanton power... this is how condensers microphones work it provide 48vdc to the capsule (basicaly a air filled capacitor with a membrane with metalization as plates) thru a high impedance in a manner as to give charges to the plates in this way when the plates vibrate a current flow and a voltage apear across this impedance...
The point is with a high impedance source you can detect currents variation easier
Water has a low resistance compared with a air capacitor of course so there is a drift dc component much higher to get some voltage there
With very pure water we can have a lower dc current
But the frequency will not be the same
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#65 · date not recorded
Need to remember this is a variable circuit. Need to start with low voltage and low frequency with the water, moving to high voltage and high frequency as more gases create"air". From one side to the other, we want the most voltage and power across the cell. Therefore, the source impedance cannot exceed the impedance of the cell. Otherwise more current will flow across the cell. So the circuit must start low and continually be tuned accordingly until the result is achieved. -
#66 ·
At resonance, the impedance of the circuit becomes purely resistive, and its value equals the resistance in the circuit. This results in the circuit being in a state of minimum impedance.
This is why impedance matching the water's resistivity to your coils is so important in order to maximize power transfer and minimize current flow through the WFC.
The water needs to be able to resist normal electrolysis by having an impedance just greater than or equal to the power source.
If the water impedance is slightly higher, then you can properly tune the choke coils to match resonance to the distinctively different capacitances of both sides of the water cell, due to differences in the cylindrical geometry, which results in the chokes having slightly different resistances. This may also make up for the slight impedance difference between the water and the secondary. -
#67 · date not recorded
So, with keeping the above in mind, these are 2 critical design elements to keep in mind in the design of your circuit.
1. Resonance.
2. At resonance, the circuit is purely resistive and the water is a purely resistive element that must be impedance matched to the source
Remember, all 3 coils will contribute to resistance at resonance and should be matched to the water impedance. -
#68 · date not recorded
Further, it's important to keep in mind that the water resistivity in your circuit will be also influenced by the number of cells (pipe pairs) and how much electrical leakage there is between your individual cells (pipe pairs). Electrical leakage will reduce the sum of the resistivity of your cells (pipe pairs). Better isolation of your cells (pipe pairs) should result in higher resistivity. -
#69 · date not recorded
Now, considering all this, let's re-examine what Mr Ronnie said 7 years ago:
https://open-source-energy.org/?PHPSESSID=bm6nh49ovnsc5b7ct68tu1n3ml;topic=2785.0
The time has come to tell my story how Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works. October the 23th 2016
First! I want to have a disclaimer statement. I Ronnie Walker will not be responsible for anyone that uses this information in this thread to create any type of voltage and current either high or low of either of the two. You take full responsibility of your own actions and the use of any information that is discussed in this thread. "High Voltage and Current can KILL You" This thread, and the post in this thread made by me or others, is for information use only.
Second! It is assumed that anyone that uses this information has at least the basic knowledge of electronics, formulas and equations. Therefor I will not be held responsible for anyone that uses this information, and can not get a Fuel Cell to work.
In other words DON'T BLAME ME!
Thanks,
Ronnie Walker (gpssonar)
Let's get started! (October 23, 2016)
Several years back I made the discovery how Stan was able to produce gas on demand for the second time. Like everyone else I keep throwing voltage to the water hoping to see it just fall apart into Hydrogen and Oxygen with no luck at all.
Like everyone else, with very little production of the two gases. (Due to Amp Leakage)
I came across a drawing in Stan's Tech Brief that clearly shows their is amp leakage in the cell. (Which I will Post below)
Like everyone else, I thought the resonant reaction Stan talked about, was on the water itself.
When in fact the resonate action will only take place when the water is removed from within the cells.
Then an only then will the two choke coils come together and interact with one another.
As long as there is water between the cells, the two choke coils will not interact with each other which will stop any resonance to occur between the two due to the dead short. (Water)
Stan states, that you must overcome the dead short condition before resonance will occur and allow the voltage to take over and do the work.
This is were everyone including me took this statement way out of context.
It dose not mean applying a high voltage to the water and it will just go away.
It means removing the water within the cells, which is a dead short condition in order to over come it.
So the question is how do we remove the dead short condition so the coils can interact with one another?
The answer is Amp leakage within the cell.
So how do we create this Amp leakage in the cell?
The answer is with the L1 Choke Inductive Reactance and the Cell Capacitance Reactance.
When you design the choke and the cell it has to meet certain criteria.
When you subtract the two from one another you don't want the math to come out to zero.
What you want is a ohm value left over. That ohm value is what is going to cause the Amp leakage within the cell.
This is where you get into voltage leading the current or voltage lagging the current, depending on if the net value of ohms is capacitive or inductive.
So in other words as the voltage increases so does the amp leakage.
At a certain point of increased voltage the water will be remove from the cell and will be replace with gas.
This is where the resonate reaction will occur between the two chokes and the voltage will take off to infinity and the amps will drop to nearly nothing. (Voltage taking over and doing the work). Since all coils are adding one another.
In the drawing I have colored it showing the water in blue and gas in yellow.
As you can see there is amp leakage that causes the water to be removed and replaced with gas or gasses.
Once this is achieved and only when this is achieve is when you will see a resonate condition take place to make Stan Meyers Water Fuel Gas on Demand. -
#70 · date not recorded
Yes i remember all this pretty well i tried talking to him and his team many times but he never showed it to me at least… so up for me those become only words…
it would be nice if it make sense but water will be push out of the cell in two cases if its pumped or if its exploded
steve can tell more about the power of exploding water and how dangerous it is..
to have high voltage say 2kv across 100 ohms you need 20 amps than it mean you need 40kw of power to keep it going
if we get a higher resistance by using purer water its possible to restrict the amps and get more voltage with reasonable power like 1 kw or so..
to get water out of the cell is also possible to get a cap on it to control the level based on the gas flow…
not sure what to believe recently i just imagine that there is much more than those tubes
when we get resistance on the coil side we get a voltage drop this voltage drop cancel the fields of the coils when current flow…
to get high current on water the coils must have a resistance much lower than water in my point of view..
the cell must be comparetively small to the coil -
#71 · date not recorded
Why are you talking about 20A?? The whole point of this project is to use pure voltage and low current. The wire on the secondary would immediately melt with that much current. It completely defeats the whole idea that this project is about.
Also, I said let's re-examine what he says. I'm not sure if he knew completely what was going on, or the best way to explain it, but we can examine what his perceived results were and see how it applies to the actual circuit design. -
#72 · date not recorded
Why are you talking about 20A?? The whole point of this project is to use pure voltage and low current. The wire on the secondary would immediately melt with that much current. It completely defeats the whole idea that this project is about.
Also, I said let's re-examine what he says. I'm not sure if he knew completely what was going on, or the best way to explain it, but we can examine what his perceived results were and see how it applies to the actual circuit design.
i just mean if water had 100ohm in that case likely 20amps would be needed to develop 2kv or so,,, i was interesting to read his words after some time…
I learned a lot from the tests i did with ronies ideas.. . not had the luck to grab what he was talking about… or maybe just dont made sense for me only..
if i make it work you can be sure there will be no hiding… -
#73 ·
You know when meyer talk about short ckt
Water is only a perfect short ckt if we're able to have a zero voltage drop on the conversion of the gas
That mean it would become a short ckt if a very high flow of amps can discharge with minimum voltage drop
In my project I have this principle of inducing on the water such a field that it will be able to hopefully reduce this voltage drop and even perhaps reverting it into a generating voltage increase leading to a perfect shirt
On the other hand If the polarity is reversed the sum of the collapsing voltage could be applied in sync with the voltage applied to the electrodes allowing to restrict the amps by creating a canceling field inside the water and because of this somewhat a higher voltage could be applied... in this sense also it act as a direct feedback
I'm working on a different configuration of electrodes to be able to use the electromagnetic field for that
I still don't understand how meyer could maintain such a field inside those concentric tubes...
He call it resonant cavity but if is not to work at megahertz or even ghz the only possible manner I see is to make it sit in a magnetic field and provide that it can resonate at ultrasonic such that the movement of charges together with the magnetic fields creates this opposing or summing voltages I described
To capture the voltage the cells must be some specif fraction of the wave length so it capture only the zone of highest velocity
Or is possible to tap the voltage in series in a multisegmented cell...
That because otherwise the region generating more will be taken by the region with less velocity because of the voltage difference there
One of the reasons water create a voltage drop is because of hydrogen forming on the negative electrode!
It develop a capacitive voltage field to the other electrode
Forcing who wants to flow a current over it to need a overvoltage to accomplish the task
Ultrasonic would kindly stripe the bubbles of the electrodes rapidly and reduce this required over potential...
As this over potential is capacitive its related to field between the plates and water system
When i mean it's capacitive may not be straight mean of the word I mean the current flow on the electrode to the double layer has minimum resistance since water ions are already absorbed so the energy does not really go there...
The energy is consumed due to the potential you're required to apply to overcome this capacitive potential
That's why I'm trying to directly manipulate it with electromagnetic fields and or with ultrasonic resonance and those combination of fields..
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#74 ·
Just to clarify better that capacitive field I mention actually is due to the triple-reactional-phase of the electrolyte electrode and membrane in case of fuel cells .
So the idea is to get rid of it
The bubbles are attached to the electrode because they are charged and molecules are dialtomic and bipolar and don't want to accept this charge
When an electrode is inside water it will be full of ionized ions absorbed into it.. of both kinds.. voltage is needed to create a population inversion on the electrodes
Meyer may be correct saying that current don't need to flow -
#75 · date not recorded
Meyer also said KISS.