sebosfato2

How about just applying 300v to the LC and then get like 600V?
Or apply 600v and get 1200v?

Is that the secret?
See Stanleys text in the attachment...

In this words I guess he is saying that at resonance the current on the components will cause the voltage to be greater than applied voltage... the voltage will depend on q factor...

He seem to say with that the resonance will allow a higher or different electric field 🤔

If match to water resistance it's what you want than you could manipulate the ppm until match for example...

Perhaps the impedance of the cell structure is not important as it's very short... only testing to tell

I think a good way to start with this would be with antena coax cable.. maybe 20m is a good start

Just ad a termination and test to find resonance

Than measure the volts and amps in vs volts out on load...

If output voltage is higher than input you get the load with higher impedance than line

Adding a core may reduce the frequency and change this impedance of the cable

With this setup ready we can start making comparisons using a bifilar and go step after step knowing where you going

One thing just occurred to me is that pulsing a transformer is equivalent to modulate its permeability



I mean with combining pulsing with impedance ransformation we get also impedance modulation...

At pulse start zero current maximum impedance

When pulse collapse current is maximum

Impedance is minimum when it takes the collapse pulse int

Than as current goes to zero impedance is modulated increasing after the pulse was dropped into the line

Just some thought passed here just now...

I don't know if you remember but In those old plans for building a water cell there was one that had a toroid placed above the tubes cell ... something I assume that I never tried at the time not up to now!

I was In his team and he never showed anything not even a bubble I see so I cannot talk for him... I just thankful for what I learn building my cell with their drawings and for the boards and everything ... I don't forget anything.. what I'm saying is that when I asked to see more I was silenced somewhat so I got away..

Luckly I kept studying..

Meyer was a genius If he hidden all in this don't you agree?

I assume aways that I can be wrong that's maybe why I lack some motivation nowadays experiments all ideas I have but this will certainly get a try

I'm going to place some cores around water cell and give it a try

The cell is a coaxial capacitor

A coax, a parallel plate or a wire length will have inductance

Normaly is a factor of 1 ur but when you add iron goes to 100 and ferrite can go upper

I'm talking about it because impedance is calculate as the ratio of inductance and capacitance per unity length

So like a coaxial cable have a characteristic impedance when we plug the water cell sizes and water dielectric value you get the impedance

Now If we add iron or ferrite to a turn of wire it will increase its inductance

What I'm saying is that the way to raise the cell impedance is to give the cell an inductive property!!!

I calculated it to be  around 2.7 ohms

But if we add some crazy high ur ferrite it can go very much higher than that!

I wanted to point about this because is not really obvious

I took years to understand in this way I'm explaining to you..

I think on the cell all is needed to increase the impedance is feed one electrode from bottom and the other from up like the patent shows.. having a core around it

Yes it seems our analysis are aligned!

The thing is just that I believe the resistance only function is to limit the power in that case and not really have much to do with the impedance transformation.. those are only losses... and maybe may make the operation frequency little wider

As I tried to explain in the case the impedance of the cell Is higher than the line impedance the reflections will lead to an ever increasing power demand so the resistance limits how much power is possible to be feed...

Playing with the calculator it seems that to get a low impedance the wires must be as close as possible to each other…

a 1mm with 0.01 distance give 10ohms .. .still higher than water cell
however if you dive the coil in a very very pure water perhaps the impedance can be brought down to 3!!

this water need to be pure and the coating must be water resistance or wont last long…

also putting in oil will bring it down but not near as much as water would

having cables runing under water for comunication was big problem in the past because of this…

now it come to how we effectively bring the impedance up of a tube cell so we can apply like 10 amps and have 1500 volts across it ?

well for the part of the impedance is possible only if we somehow make the cell to fit inside a iron core or ferrite and feed from as a load from each side

this can increase the pulse delay 10ths of times  and also its impedance…

all is needed is to add magnetic material to it!

this will bring the impedance of the cell maybe up to the 130 ohms range!!!!! much much better than 3 ohm!!! anything will be better than those 3 ohms…

that impedance change of the water cell may be easily confirmable!!! it may be the restoring force needed…

i still think that my experiment to find the water resonance vs ppm is relevant because probably that will be the best frequency to tune…

 i have a some of 25x25mm I cores i may be able to put 6 around a cell and form a kind of square pot core..

inside the inner electrode there could also be some ferrite…

another solution would be to use some steel core for toroids and role around the cell… the pemeability is smaller than ferrite but the saturation much higher…

or maybe a set of toroidal magnets thin enough so they can be pressed agains each other with reverse polarities as to force some fields into water 

With a 220v bulb example how low z would need go to burn it

Let's say it burn with 250v 2kw of power that is 8amps

So if we are applying the correct frequency for the impedance transformation it would require a impedance of 27 ,5 ohms

So even applying 220v it will consume 8 amps and burn the lamp

This is just an example of how the transmission line can transform the impedance

The interesting about impedance calculator is that if the diameter is equal to the distance the impedance is zero...

I believe is because it become like a short So to increase impedance we need small separation

The separation between the wires tells the impedance they will have...

My best guess as I said to reduce the length we could increase the capacitance of the line and capacitance accordingly... this would have the effect to reduce the length required for the frequency used

How to increase cell impedance? Ferrite
Pot core

The cell in this case is like the continuation of the wire...

To get the results of what is happening I believe the only way is getting the readings of current input vs output of the coils with analog isolated meters... it will affect impedance but anyway is the only possible manner to read current transformation specialy if load is not a resistor

The voltages also can be compared on input and output using an isolated probe on the end side for example

If we manage to make a transmission line with 3ohms or so with enough meters to resonate at low frequency than we gona see some nice action...

Otherwise I could be wrong in this analysis and the cells were referential to one or two isolated grounds inside the water bath maybe outside the cell making is impedance higher perhaps

But anyways the lower is the impedance of the tl the higher will be the power it can deliver to a load...

The power is not limited to the input impedance vs the input voltage in this little thing because of the reflections

And that's why I'm saying if the impedance of the load is too low vs the impedance of the line the line will not be able to do much with the load since the power is limited

The current input will be reduced by the reflections

You see?

To get the power to real kick in the impedance must lower than the load

Anyway those are only thoughts and words...

https://www.mantaro.com/resources/impedance-calculator.htm

This is a calculator you can take a look

To find the z of the chokes we just need some experiments with different values of resistors

And reverse engineering it measuring the input current vs output current and hitting with 1/4 wave length

Ah dip the coil in a liquid will decrease the impedance

And if is pure water it reduces more!

Ronie says the thing was drived like an antenna

An antenna has basicaly two parts

A ground plane and the antenna itself

If the ground was around the antenna it would not emit

Actually become a very low impedance... if you calculate based on the diameters and the dielectric value of water it gives a low value like 3


So it does not matter how pure the water is it will behave like if indeed had 3 or less ohms

If we want to place 1500 volts we need a discharge capable of 500 amps surge

A manner to increase water cell impedance is to increase its linear inductance!!! Remember that... adding a core to the cell directly change its impedance! Raise it a lot

What I'm trying to point is that when we want a impedance transformation the impedance of the load must be higher than the impedance transformer otherwise is like want to ligh a 220v h 1kw bulb with a 50w transformer

Most the voltage drop will be on the transformer and lost as heat... the bulb may not even get red hot

That's what I'm talking about kick in

The real complicated  part is that this impedance transformation is frequency dependent and without knowing the water frequency vs ppm will be hard to get there....

Another reason to get it low as possible impedance is that we want to apply a lower voltage and according to stan it must step up this way more current can flow allowing it to resonate easier...

The objective is to have a 200v transformer output that if connected to this chokes will burn the 200v bulb when connected thru it

Just to clarify better that capacitive field I mention actually is due to the triple-reactional-phase of the electrolyte electrode and membrane in case of fuel cells .

So the idea is to get rid of it

The bubbles are attached to the electrode because they are charged and molecules are dialtomic and bipolar and don't want to accept this charge

When an electrode is inside water it will be full of ionized ions absorbed into it.. of both kinds.. voltage is needed to create a population inversion on the electrodes

Meyer may be correct saying that current don't need to flow

You know when meyer talk about short ckt

Water is only a perfect short ckt if we're able to have a zero voltage drop on the conversion  of the gas

That mean it would become a short ckt if a very high flow of amps can discharge with minimum voltage drop

In my project I have this principle of inducing on the water such a field that it will be able to hopefully reduce this voltage drop and even perhaps reverting it into a generating voltage increase leading to a perfect shirt

On the other hand If the polarity is reversed the sum of the collapsing voltage could be applied in sync with the voltage applied to the electrodes allowing to restrict the amps by creating a canceling field inside the water and because of this somewhat a higher voltage could be applied... in this sense also it act as a direct feedback

I'm working on a different configuration of electrodes to be able to use the electromagnetic field for that

I still don't understand how meyer could maintain such a field inside those concentric tubes...

He call it resonant cavity but if is not to work at megahertz or even ghz the only possible manner I see is to make it sit in a magnetic field and provide that it can resonate at ultrasonic such that the movement of charges together with the magnetic fields creates this opposing or summing voltages I described

To capture the voltage the cells must be some specif fraction of the wave length so it capture only the zone of highest velocity

Or is possible to tap the voltage in series in a multisegmented cell...

That because otherwise the region generating more will be taken by the region with less velocity because of the voltage difference there

One of the reasons water create a voltage drop is because of hydrogen  forming on the negative electrode!

It develop a capacitive voltage field to the other electrode

Forcing who wants to flow a current over it to need a overvoltage to accomplish the task

Ultrasonic would kindly stripe the bubbles of the electrodes rapidly and reduce this required over potential...

As this over potential is capacitive its related to field between the plates and water system

When i mean it's capacitive may not be straight mean of the word I mean the current flow on the electrode to the double layer has minimum resistance since water ions are already absorbed so the energy does not really go there...

The energy is consumed due to the potential you're required to apply to overcome this capacitive potential

That's why I'm trying to directly manipulate it with electromagnetic fields and or with ultrasonic resonance and those combination of fields..

This idea of having the cell match the coil resistance dont make much sense to me... i was thinking about phanton power... this is how condensers microphones work it provide 48vdc to the capsule (basicaly a air filled capacitor with a membrane with metalization as plates) thru a high impedance in a manner as to give charges to the plates in this way when the plates vibrate a current flow and a voltage apear across this impedance...

The point is with a high impedance source you can detect currents variation easier

Water has a low resistance compared with a air capacitor of course so there is a drift dc component much higher to get some voltage there

With very pure water we can have a lower dc current

But the frequency will not be the same

They do not get really consumed.... they get emited and collected on another electrode... it consume power as the electron ejection cool down the filament

To have a lower impedance z of the line it must have a high capacitance how much Is high enought?

My best view of it is that it must be in the few ohms range

That because water need some leakage so is important that the impedance transformation have enough amps to deliver at those high voltage tips ...

If I could buy some copper foil than I would roll with paper and dip in oil

It would Cost a lot to make it very long...

Adding q core can help lower the length but it increase the coupling among this transmission line formed too and it
Also it increase the impedance as each turn will have more inductance

To be able to kick in it must be able to bring the water to have this impedance ending... so If you start with a high impedance line will be much harder or impossible to bring water to the point needed maybe only would work on very pure water..

There some images in my head of bifilar coils making a second ckt I think it come from what I studied about antennas and balloons trying to understand this stuff about impedance matching

Badicaly

I will describe it for u

It would consist of a secondary with a center tap and it's connected regularly as stan show but each choke has a bifilar partner speaker wire like

This second wire is connected to ground Center tap and to each other... but ate  the ends they connect to the cell too

The idea is to have them split in reference to  ground and not to each other while on the other side they are shorting with the bifilar coil partner respectively

To inpart a good power to the water the z of this lines must be low

I imagine that meyer managed to make the cell resonate in electromagnetic sense of the word and that's how he prevented the current to flow...

There must be a way that water create a backemf in a manner as to prevent current flow behaving like a motor spinning up... ininitialy it need a lot of current but as speed rise it lower...  in the motor os because of frequency and backemf

I don't know enough about cavity resonators to understand how would even be possible to maintain such a electromagnetic wave imprisoned on the concentric cell...

I'm willing to get to know more about in the next years to perhaps understand better this modes of resonances in concentric cavities

When we match the impedance of the load with the transmission line current get in phase with voltage when in resonance but that also mean the gain is zero.

In this condition there is no reflection of the load meaning that the current in equals current output

When the load has a mismatch this causes a difference in input and output currents and voltages a impedance transformation as the reflections goe against the originating fields in case of a load with lower impedance than the line and in the oposite case it will have a higher input curren than output

The Beauty of this is that is self adjustable..  since as the load increases impedance it keeps putting more and more power out different of a transformer where the input output impedance transformation is fixed...

I think meyer really took advantage of that to intensify the voltage and minimize current as possible at load side

Perhaps to drive a resonant circuit and be able to have a better way than flyback to get the fields on the cell

I think if we still think the cell from the charge point of view we are not seeing not even the tip of the iceberg