Back to Basics
Started by unknown · · 192 posts · last reply 16 December 2024
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#151 · date not recorded
1. Stan's invention wasn't about electrolysis. It was about using high voltage fields to split the water.
2. Who said anything about blocking current. The current needs to be limited sufficiently to allow the voltage to climb across the water cell without inducing electrolysis, which would prevent the voltage from building up.
Why do so many deviate from Stan's explanations? Remember what he said? KISS -
#152 · date not recorded
That circuits are useless, patents are hidden, Meyer showed princip and parts but that dont work...some guy probably got it work and showed, Steve posted some pic from video that i saved, its probably "right" interpretation of that circuit that circles on internet...i think that Steve misinterpretation that circuit on last sentence, its not tesla coil, its Meyer choke
https://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,3221.msg34397.html#msg34397 -
#153 · date not recorded
Kiss......
For years now, we try to keep it simple....Nothing worked sofar.
Anyway, Stan said that when the setup used 1 or 4 amps, that it isnt a big deal...
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#154 · date not recorded
And yet so often the answer is just under our nose, and we don't see it. -
#155 ·
Who said anything about blocking current.
None other than Stan Meyers himself. He said many times ".... yada yada, Blocking diode..." and the diode is in every "circuit" diagram on the net.
This thread is titled "Back to Basics"
Did Stan Meyer show a circuit to anyone? The answer is no, he did not
attachment_17193 blocking.png
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#156 ·
🤨
Everything you have said is out of context. I'm not gonna bother arguing with you any further. -
#157 ·
You speak in riddles..
Have you figured it out how it works?
I am curious about what you meanAnd yet so often the answer is just under our nose, and we don't see it.
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#158 · date not recorded
My recent work on adding magnetic field to the cell is clear on how resistance increase because when the ions are under magnetic field they are deflected! The hole point is having enough field and right configuration so the waves can grow and the cell work as a generator…
The higher the acoustic energy build the higher will be the voltage because lenz law
The cell must act as a resonant cavity but not are electromagnetic waves but for pressure waves
My theory tells that if we otherwise apply ultrasound directly and tune to this having an electrode the size of the peak of the movement of ions than you can have it to accumulate voltage and this voltage will act as a resistance reducing the current flow
I believe the chineesed videos I posted they may have used it -
#159 · date not recorded
The stacked resonant cell had coils on it build in Vic so my best guess is that they probably worked in a Quadrature manner as to not only drive the waves but synchronized and amplify the waves along the tube
There’s a lot to do more but again I’m very positive that it can work at least theoretically
Ideally would be possible to achieve more efficiency with superconductor capacitors and coils -
#160 · date not recorded
Who said anything about blocking current.
None other than Stan Meyers himself. He said many times ".... yada yada, Blocking diode..." and the diode is in every "circuit" diagram on the net.
This thread is titled "Back to Basics"
Did Stan Meyer show a circuit to anyone? The answer is no, he did not
V=IR
If you want to measure 20kV across water, which has a low resistance to electric current before electrolysis occurs, what do you suppose the amp level needs to be?
Obviously it can't be zero, can it? Otherwise voltage would be zero.
But it can't be high current either or you will have electrolysis instead of water splitting.
So how do you get high voltage with low resistance without getting high current?
KISS -
#161 · date not recorded
by using a spark bridge? -
#162 · date not recorded
As I mentioned earlier, the VIC is a DC circuit due to the diode, but it contains a pseudo-AC circuit formed by the chokes and water capacitor. In this part of the circuit, the relationship follows V=IZ, where Z is the reactive impedance, which limits current.
Who said anything about blocking current.
None other than Stan Meyers himself. He said many times ".... yada yada, Blocking diode..." and the diode is in every "circuit" diagram on the net.
This thread is titled "Back to Basics"
Did Stan Meyer show a circuit to anyone? The answer is no, he did not
V=IR
If you want to measure 20kV across water, which has a low resistance to electric current before electrolysis occurs, what do you suppose the amp level needs to be?
Obviously it can't be zero, can it? Otherwise voltage would be zero.
But it can't be high current either or you will have electrolysis instead of water splitting.
So how do you get high voltage with low resistance without getting high current?
KISS
The VIC leverages reactive impedance through inductors and the water capacitor, rather than relying purely on resistance. The inductive chokes resist rapid changes in current dynamically, and their opposing mutual inductance further suppresses current flow. Meanwhile, resonance between the chokes and the water capacitor allows energy to oscillate efficiently, recycling energy within the circuit to build up voltage across the capacitor over time without requiring continuous high current input. This ensures the voltage rises high enough to induce breakdown without significant energy losses through conduction or electrolysis.
The bottom line is, the resistance value of the chokes and secondary aren't as important as the reactance and impedance values being matched to the WFC at resonance because it is the reactive impedance that solves the equation of high voltage with low current. So the WFC and chokes need to be designed with high reactive impedance within specific frequency ranges in mind based on the variable range of the capacitance of the WFC. -
#163 ·
do you have it working? -
#164 ·
I used to log in and keep an eye on Tektrical / electrotek. I guess people didn't pay much attention to him. He was investigating HV experiments, spark gaps, plasma etc. He was in his 70s, I guess he is no longer here. last log in Nov 2022. maybe Covid, maybe just time caught up.
https://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2498
https://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2346
I wouldn't be interested in HV across water. Theoretically, H atom is 1 proton and 1 electron. Electrons are the same thing out of a battery.
X and Z is based on freq. R is constant; V and I vary. The sawtooth output is max HV and then decays to zero. The primary circuit has switched off, so cannot be damaged by the secondary.
I experiment with HV FBT and my interest is short circuits, which is V/R = I, the R stays constant. This is why I was interested in elecktrotek's experiments with neon light transformer etc. V moves electrons, remembering there is a HV diode. FBT don't need to be "resonant", it is one pulse at any time and Idle time in between.
I never thought to ask electrotek what he thought of Stan Meyers. I don't think he was following SM
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#165 · date not recorded
The bottom line is, the resistance value of the chokes and secondary aren't as important as the reactance and impedance values being matched to the WFC at resonance because it is the reactive impedance that solves the equation of high voltage with low current. So the WFC and chokes need to be designed with high reactive impedance within specific frequency ranges in mind based on the variable range of the capacitance of the WFC. -
#166 ·
I used to log in and keep an eye on Tektrical / electrotek. I guess people didn't pay much attention to him. He was investigating HV experiments, spark gaps, plasma etc. He was in his 70s, I guess he is no longer here. last log in Nov 2022. maybe Covid, maybe just time caught up.
https://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2498
https://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2346
I wouldn't be interested in HV across water. Theoretically, H atom is 1 proton and 1 electron. Electrons are the same thing out of a battery.
X and Z is based on freq. R is constant; V and I vary. The sawtooth output is max HV and then decays to zero. The primary circuit has switched off, so cannot be damaged by the secondary.
I experiment with HV FBT and my interest is short circuits, which is V/R = I, the R stays constant. This is why I was interested in elecktrotek's experiments with neon light transformer etc. V moves electrons, remembering there is a HV diode. FBT don't need to be "resonant", it is one pulse at any time and Idle time in between.
I never thought to ask electrotek what he thought of Stan Meyers. I don't think he was following SM
I remember reading his posts about it
My impression is that Meyer hid so well his ideas behind citation of other patents
Like the tay he Han and the ultrasonic one…
Reading that and seeing other parents that cited it as well I started to think Meyer was far more intelligent than he wanted to seem
I mean he had that thing but would not show not even talk about what really make it work but did in such a manner that show so many things and parts that keep people right off from it…
In Hollywood films this is how they explore the ideas they show you one thing to get you amazed so they can literally talk shit and you are still thinking on the shiny thing you saw before
Meyer used this to hide the essentials while he could show lots of details
In my research on the ultrasonic patent he cited I came across the phenomenon of anti resonance in ultrasonic piezo
That is welding piezo are driven this way to keep it feed with high voltage and low current so when you apply pressure and change the resonance it than suck power in and weld plastics
The thing is that applying it to water become clear that the cell is simply a resonant cavity but also possibly a transducer
So if driven to certain condition it will acumulate energy and this energy work back generating a back emf that cuts current flow
The Vic is simply a transformer to push power to the cell but it will only work if the cell have the correct fields configuration “magnetic” and frequency
Without it is just a piece of metal that will never have any other result than electrolysis
This lead to another idea that I started on the past ten years that was the water coil
Where I tried to induce the high voltage by electromagnetic
However I used a long water line and a transformer instead of a resonant atestem so although I could get some voltage the water ends when connected to each other would result in zero current
So I designed other ways of doing it
All that because if we get te energy from inside out the voltage drop should be less of a problem for efficiency since it’s reversed so we would be using the electricity and the gas
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#167 ·
Induction cooktop is perhaps the easier way to show
You need a two cells connected to each othe with two diodes Basicaly shorting the anode of one to the cathode of the other
Than connect this two cell with a tube and fill with water and place on the cooktop
It will show voltage on the ends
Now if we maybe match the frequency of the cooktop tank with the length perhaps we get a surprise
The tubes can be made with pvc connection for example a c shape over the cocktop and some curves to make the cells vertical and farther than the field so it won’t heat up the cells metals
If the electrodes are catalytic probably is better but than it need a membrane to separate the gases to impeded from recombining
Each cell this way should generate hydrogen and oxygen at their respective electrodes where the current flow
The potential however come from induction captured and propagated by the dielectric and cocnductive properties of water -
#168 ·
When Meyer says he used voltage as potential energy and water as source of electrons it become evident that the cells together with this structure and fields can propagate potential thru the water tube but capture” current at the tips by using water as source of electrons
Another way of view it is you have two baths connected by a wire that goes to a grown inside each bath
Than each bath have a cell and they are connected like before in tandem with diodes shorting the cells
If we place this wire over the cooktop it will give the baths a voltage ac but the cells will use this ac potencial and drive current thru the diodes
In this case the propagation happen thru this grounds fluctuating by the wire
So the ground is receiving ac giving to each cell half reaction
If the ground is a catalyst it may help reducing the loss of potential there and it will probably heat up on this reaction
Heat is another form of energy that can cause voltage
Well the point is without this wire and grounds the induction is propagated thru water itself -
#169 ·
Incidentally, a very small amount of electrolysis is actually needed as gas is needed to be produced at the beginning to change the resistivity of the WFC to allow higher reactance and in turn a higher voltage to be applied to the WFC. So we are not blocking all current as massive was suggesting. A very small amount is still needed to start the process. -
#170 ·
What make you believe that? and according to your perspective why would current get restricted?
On my theory when current get restricted for example water have 220v backemf and I apply 200ma for example this result in at least44watts going in ( is just an example ) dis considering the resistance let’s say was 500ohm Woud cause hundred volts drop consume for a total of 150w or so when ther is no energy acumulated applying 320v result in 640ma initially and when the restriction works it drops to 200ma
So this need a 200w power supply just to kick in the power and when it’s charged it drops to 144 (wrong ) because the restriction
(Correcting) I confused voltage for watts in this example actually this hundred volts on the 500ohm is consuming 20w so when “charged” in this example the power would drop to 64 w ! 20 for the resistance and 44 on the backemf
Again this is just an example so you can understand how it all relates in this idea
The resistance of bubbles would be linear increasing as the bubbles increase do you agree?
If the current is taken from a backemf the graph is exponential like Stan show the amp restriction graphs
Current = (vin - backemf) / ohms
The higher is the applied voltage the greater is the restriction because it’s resistance increases exponentially as energy get accumulated on the water cell in form of vibrations generation or if in for of induced electric
Like the piezo anti resonance it’s movement and deformation causes the bemf
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#171 · date not recorded
QuoteWhat make you believe that? and according to your perspective why would current get restricted?
You need to understand the difference between these two attached schematic diagrams and how V=IZ is applied to the VIC at resonance.
You have to understand what the problem actually is before you can understand how to design the VIC to solve it.attachment_17205 attachment_17207 Screenshot_20241119_080157_Gallery.jpg zy3uM7Q9jhfb3G6Z-72678158-2625410020815169-1493625046696984576-n.jpg
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#172 · date not recorded
But why you believe that? Did you ever got any monster gas production in this condition or maybe amp restriction with some gas?
So far as long as I ever see only magnetic field could indeed interfere with the ions
Please explain what you mean … I understand of course whatever scientific term you use
Let’s try to get somewhere
I tried hard to find any changes in water resistance with lab view and got nothing for a long time
Do you have different results? -
#173 ·
Incidentally, a very small amount of electrolysis is actually needed as gas is needed to be produced at the beginning to change the resistivity of the WFC to allow higher reactance and in turn a higher voltage to be applied to the WFC. So we are not blocking all current as massive was suggesting. A very small amount is still needed to start the process.
Strange, I thought over the last few days I just did explain. Just to also re emphasize, it is necessary to change the resistivity of the cell by replacing water with gas. This can be done by starting off with electrolysis. Otherwise it will be too difficult to get the charge high enough.
I have a significant understanding of how the VIC works now. Take some time to piece together what I've posted. -
#174 · date not recorded
I also believe to have a great understanding of the Vic and of all claimed by Stan but never got any good gas from it
The closer I got to what I could call amp restriction was the way I described using the Vic coils in resonance over the cell
Using pure water the restriction was greater I guess because the voltage drop occur on the gap above some voltage
From my understanding the bubbles won’t be able to restrict the amps in exponential form it may be linear at most with current flow so it would only impede current above a very very high current and this is not what we hear from Meyer he indeed talk about miliamps
I ask why you believe to understand why you so sure of that because although I even heard some people claiming such idea of the gas being the precursor of the reaction non of them ever show anything working so I’m totally skeptical until lay least a graph show some non linear behavior
Physics don’t lie and from the lenz law we have most needed understanding to create electromagnetic transducer
So far it seem to me the Chinese device is pretty much interesting and I would bet they are using direct induction
I may find some time this weekend to try that
I already have the components needed I just need time
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#175 · date not recorded
I may provide further information soon.