Understanding the VIC
Started by unknown · · 75 posts · last reply 16 December 2011
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#51 · date not recorded
Sebs, how did you accomplish this? -
#52 ·
Yea the cell can act like a diode in a way. I discovered this a while back. You can take a test meter and set it to the "Tone" setting which is used to test a short connection in a circuit. Depending on which lead you connect it to, you will get a "Tone" while connected in one configuration while if you connect it the opposite way you not get a "Tone". This shows that the cell can act as a diode in rectifying the signal and can conduct in one direction. Has anybody else tested this? -
#53 ·
I simply arranged everything just like stan said, including all parasitic effects of all components.
The unipolar pulses are independent of the frequency. the inputed frequency sets up the train of unipolar pulses...
I simply added a diode in the circuit across the secondary, but connected after the other diode in series...
Well its simply a transient effect so the components must be thought to generate this high frequency harmonics...
thats not all however that is needed to make it to work... -
#54 ·
Interesting work, have you gotten a scope shot from the L2 side? Is it still an ac wave form? I kind of think that's what we need to get it to work. Thanks for sharing, I'll try it when I get home, hopefully by then you can tell me what else your doing?
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#55 ·
If the cells polarity switched with each pulse, wouldn't that be equivalent to the steam resonator? In the sales manual Stan states that there is both a static and alternating field being applied to the cell. I don't understand how that one would work?
Yes, I was just about to point that out. In the Steam Resonator circuit, the gate pulses make the transistor switch the polarity on the plate, much like a H-bridge circuit. The voltage acts much like AC, but pulsed in a way to limit current. As you can test with AC voltage, it will not fracture the water but it will heat it up pretty fast. With tests that I have done with 120vac, I was able to super heat the water from room temp. to over 220 degrees in a matter of minutes. Here is a scope shot of what the output of the Steam Resonator pulses should look like.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_pulse.jpg)
Am I correct in saying that the steam resonator design still uses a feedback coil and ultimately uses the same drive circuit that the resonant cavity does?
My theory on this is due to the fact that in Stan's steam resonator patents and other diagrams, he makes sure to show that the 'dielectric property of water' has to be tuned into on the steam resonator as well. Would the only major difference between the resonant cavity coil and the steam resonator coil be that it is missing the chokes? Since we are heating the water and not splitting it? It makes sense to me... -
#56 ·
It's a little different than that, chokes are still used for voltage gains and amp restriction, What you need is a high voltage field that switchers polarity. I think there is an array of ways you could produce this effect -
#57 ·
Voltage Wave-Guide Memo WFC 427
VIC Voltage Sync-Pulse Circuit
resume
Voltage Sync-Pulse Gated Frequency, forming Voltage Pulse Burst Wave as to Traveling Voltage Wave-Action of opposite voltage polarity (+/-) of equal Voltage-Pulse Amplitudes (+Vpp/- Vpp) are zero reference to electrical ground state (OV) by placing Amp Inhibitor Circuit (860) between electrical ground (OV) and Center Tap of Dual Bifilar Secondary Pickup Coils, as illustrated in (840) of Figure (8-10). By doing so, Balance Phasing of opposite voltage intensity (+Vpp / - Vpp) is accomplished without experiencing current influxing caused by differential variances where Negative Voltage Peak Potential (-Vpp) is less than Positive Voltage Peak Potential (+Vpp) or Vise Versa ... allowing Inductor Resonant Choke Coils Electromagnetic Fields Intensity (+Z2 / -Z3) to be, in turn, free of Electromagnetic variances of intensity (Z2 - Z3). This non-voltage shift (Balance Phasing of opposite Voltage Potential) helps prevents atom displacement during "Snapping-Action" by which "Resonant Electrical Stress" of opposite electrical polarity (RU/RU' - ST/ST') is applied equally across Water Molecule (s) (85) to propagate either Static (585) or Dynamic (612) Electrical Charging Effect (s) at elevated Voltage Peak Potential (s).
This tell you that the wave form is simply a balanced unipolar pulse train... not two ac signal 180° apart.
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#58 · date not recorded
Yeah I can see that's how it's supposed to work according to this memo, what I'm more interested in is why Tony and others are getting an AC single? We know what Stan had built himself from Don's info and it doesn't seem to be drastically different from what many of us have built.
Also can you explain the bifiliar secondary? I'm not sure I really understand that one. -
#59 · date not recorded
Because they are inputing ac or had unbalance in the cell for this the matching resistor is needed, There can't be ac across the cell... a diode helps but is not enough the circuit must be in perfect balance for the unipolar pulses to show up. all conditions must be match, all parasitic elements.
The bifilar is a method for maximize coupling inductance and capacitance...
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#60 · date not recorded
Because they are inputing ac or had unbalance in the cell for this the matching resistor is needed, There can't be ac across the cell... a diode helps but is not enough the circuit must be in perfect balance for the unipolar pulses to show up. all conditions must be match, all parasitic elements.
The bifilar is a method for maximize coupling inductance and capacitance...
We are inputting pulsed DC square waves, not AC. Anybody that knows anything about inductors/coils, knows that they dont work with straight line DC. When you use pulsed DC and get resonance, the output will always be an AC signal.
If you look at the "wave-burst" diagram, you can see that the output is clearly two 180* sine waves. Stan says the voltages are opposite to each other (meaning 180*). -
#61 · date not recorded
actually not 180 but 0° in phase just like a resistie circuit
I mean the unipolar pulses that create the step charging effect. I know this because the current wave form of the cell in the simulation is perfect replica of the voltage wave form in the pulse forming network. unipolar pulses exact the same as meyer drawings... the resonant voltage is completely other thing, this ac sets on and off the unipolar pulses. -
#62 · date not recorded
sebs, have you ever heard of DC piggy backing with AC? -
#63 ·
Bubz, that's what it sounds like to me
Sebs is that what you mean by unipolar pulses and ac resonant voltage? This would be like having a static and alternating field? -
#64 · date not recorded
I simply arranged everything just like stan said, including all parasitic effects of all components.
The unipolar pulses are independent of the frequency. the inputed frequency sets up the train of unipolar pulses...
I simply added a diode in the circuit across the secondary, but connected after the other diode in series...
Well its simply a transient effect so the components must be thought to generate this high frequency harmonics...
thats not all however that is needed to make it to work...
HI Seb.
Can you give a picture how you connected the diode.
thank
andy -
#65 ·
Never heard of it.
Yes static and dynamic...
one in series with the secondary and the other with arrow countering the first and closing the circuit. like a full wave bridge rectifier but having only the two positive diodes... The chokes are simply connected as stan schematic. -
#66 ·
Hi Seb,
I too cannot get my head around the diodes as you describe them. How is the second diode connected again? A picture would be helpful, much obliged. I'm now running 8.5kv with my vic with little gas.
kb -
#67 ·
Hi Seb,
I too cannot get my head around the diodes as you describe them. How is the second diode connected again? A picture would be helpful, much obliged. I'm now running 8.5kv with my vic with little gas.
kb
Can you give the schematic of your circuit?
thank
andy -
#68 ·
Hi Seb,
I too cannot get my head around the diodes as you describe them. How is the second diode connected again? A picture would be helpful, much obliged. I'm now running 8.5kv with my vic with little gas.
kb
WOW is the 8.5kv across the water gap? -
#69 · date not recorded
squegging i guess
attachment_10388 attachment_10390 ic.png Captura de tela 2011-12-16 às 13.55.35.png
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#70 · date not recorded
Many thanks Sebos .
andy -
#71 · date not recorded
Seb,
Thanks for the drawing. The probe is put to the positive plate only, I will not ruin my oscope by trying across the plates to negative. It is accurate I believe. The diode and mosfet speed are factors to getting higher PTP peaks. I did get over 15kv for awhile but had a nice blue crackling short going on near the side of a coil. When I fixed that it went to 8.5kv. We need to insulate better for over 5kv
is what i am learning.
Ferrite is the only way to go. All other core materials do not de-magnetize fast enough and give lower ptp voltage than ferrite. I use eight ferrite rods in a staight balun inside three 1000' 28 gauge bobbins staight off the shelf for the secondarys and a 100' 21 gauge wrapped over the center primary in the middle of the three coils on the eight inch core.
kb -
#72 · date not recorded
TonyW,
I tested the continuity of my insulated WFC today.
Before I applied power to the cell I measured continuity each way (got a beep both ways).
Then I connected a 12VDC power supply to the cell for a few seconds.
Then I disconnected the power supply and measured continuity once again and only got continuity (beep) when the polarity of my probes was
the same as the power supply which was previously connected.
I think this is simply due to polarization, and the electron collecting at the positive plate. Not sure how long it would take for the relaxation to occur but I'm guessing at that point continunity would show each way again. -
#73 · date not recorded
I just finished testing sebos extra diode on my setup.If my choke coils are on the same core as the primary and seconary,it doesn't work.
But if I have my choke coils on a seperate core, than yes I get half rectified unipolar pulses at the cell,but not the double frequency unipolar pulses.
More testing needs to be tried.Which brings me to another question,I'll post it in a new post here.
Don -
#74 · date not recorded
Wish I had a good oscilloscope to see what i'm doing here...
The diodes are acting... the blocking diode allow the pulse to charge the network and the switching diode close the blocking diode further for keep the cell from discharge.
The unipolar should work with the coils on the same core if the polarities are as showed, cause they shouldn't interact at all. Except by increasing the distributed capacitance of the pulse forming network which actually change the frequency of the pulses. Also it would be able to increase the frequency of the potential applied.. -
#75 · date not recorded
HMS, in one of Stan's patents he writes about the Sec., L1 & L2, each being wrapped with a ratio of 10:1 compared to the primary. This would make the summation of the coils a 30:1 step-up. I mentioned this back last year, but I guess nobody paid me any attention. Stan says that with 12v input to the primary, you will get 360v at the output of the chokes.
Now, the thing that we all need to understand about the cell is this, the cell will act almost as a dead short with having a resistance around 200 - 250 ohms. What Stan was doing or attempting to do is make the cell act as a true capacitor. It will act as a really bad leaky capacitor, but once you, as Stan says, tune into the dielectric value of water, only then it will act as a real true capacitor! Like I stated earlier in this thread, the water has a dielectric of 78%, which is non-conductive. So at a certain frequency you will nullify the 22% conductivity and tune into the 78% non-conductive part of water and the voltage will rise dramatically with no current leakage!
Hi,
Maybe stupid question, but is it possible that I step-charged the connected scope probes
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2488.msg23226.html#msg23226
When I tune the PULSE and the GATE frequency I see the step-charge scope shot image.
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=11380)
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=11408)
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=11380)(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=11408)
Interesting the 22% conductivity and tune into the 78% non-conductive part of water !!!
When I connect one plate to the positive choke the UNIPOLAR offset is higher, from -84V to -28V for the positive choke!!!!
Problem is when my WFC is attached to both chokes I have only AC! I needed to tune the PULSE frequency to get this amplitude higher. The WFC has 200 - 250 ohms (RAIN WATER). 180 degrees is now lost due the really bad leaky capacitor as a dead short!!!
Ideas?
Regardshttp://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=11380 http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=11408
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