waterfreak

* Shameless Plug *, but the 8xa kit is also available here, as well as many other places:

http://stansdream.com/products.htm

AFAIK no specific frequency has been found. I think it depends on the transformer setup.
Tony says he generated hot water using his alternating dc circuit, and I believe him.
However, I think he is doing something more exotic with the transformer or the cell, as those are
the only two variables, beside the two signal inputs, that could affect it.
I believe the frequency will depend on the cell, transformer, and the water, but you would think
it would be more forgiving than the resonant cavity, as it is simply alternating HV on and off...
Another curious fact is meyer's steam resonator coil has much thicker wire than the dunebuggy
coils - does this tell us it was a lower voltage than on the resonant cavity coils?

Yes, this is confusing to me also HMS, Stan's document shows a separate ground for an optional 'heat resonator'?
The ground seems to be separate from that of the primary and driving circuitry.
I have built that circuit with many variations, and got no results.
I believe Stan left something out intentionally, for patent reasons.

Below is a pic from my scope using Tony's alternating dc circuit which is supposed to heat the water, but so far the only thing it heats is the two 220 ohm resistors, and they get HOT!
The scope is connected at the secondary of the transformer, across the cell.
Water is distilled. Scope is set to 5V / div, so the signal amplitude is approx. 20V.
I am certain the fault lies somewhere in my transformer construction, which only Tony knows how to build correctly.
My transformer consists of approx. 600 turns 29AWG magnet wire primary and 3000 turns 29AWG magnet wire secondary, on a ferrite rod with permeability of 200.
It can't be anything else, because the waveforms and circuit seem to be working correctly...

I am not giving up though - each day you fail is one day closer to success!

Thanks everyone for the submissions!
With a team effort, we can solve this!
Tony has been very generous and helpful with information - some of us, like myself, have submitted what we can.
The explanations make sense regarding the audio signals and different harmonics...

Is this how the board should be connected?

Congrats!

You may be right, and if that's the case, we have no hope of ever getting it to work - without having Stan's original devices to replicate.
If it's that specific, we will be burning oil for the next 200 years.

Wow, thanks for that info.
The waveform I get is channel A is on 4x as long as channel B.
At least it does alternate now though.
I still do not get anything happening at the cell though.
Right now I am so frustrated I think the only way to get the water to do anything is to drive two 40kv flyback transformers on and off and shock the water with it.
I'm sure that may cause an effect of some type

All the other things I have tried have failed, and I think the voltage just isn't enough.
What kind of transformer are you using - a step-up?
I used a primary of approx. 600 turns to a secondary of 3500 turns - no effect.
I also tried a primary of approx. 600T and secondary of 5500 turns - no effect.
I also tried with and without a diode on the secondary - no effect.
It's no wonder most people say this is all bunk - so far, it appears to be.
The average experimenter would have given up on all this decades ago.
If only we had Stan's devices to examine...

I have breadboarded it twice, and this is all I get at the output before the transformer.
One channel stays on all the time (or the frequency is too high on one of the sig gens - two 555 timer circuits)
Wouldn't it be easier to use just one sig gen and invert it instead of two?
This circuit's output is not clean at all, very noisy.
Also, you must have used tap water in your test cell and not distilled?
I am using distilled to ensure I get no electrolysis, but cannot get it to do anything.
I do get small bubbles when I use another circuit which puts out around 450VAC (flyback driver circuit)...

HMS, thanx for the nfo.
I believe you are correct in your assumptions.
As far as the vic board being identical to the other resonant cavity control boards, they may have looked identical, but I wonder if all parts of the board were actually used?
Many of Stan's boards have wire bridges, etc., and I wonder if he only used part of the board in the steam resonator.
I do not think he used resonance in the steam setup, but I could be wrong.
Here's a hand-drawn diagram of the steam resonator circuit someone made on another forum - I found it here:

http://stansdream.com.ru/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6e0402099017ae0ee0717d8aa83348b0&topic=4.0

Does it look like a polarity switching circuit to you?
As far as the picture from the home heating unit HMS, it could be a simple power supply transformer, supplying power for the unit.
I don't know - the wires and the transformer itself appear to be professionally made standard step-down xfmr to me.
Your guess is as good as mine.

But, if you look at the control board, you will see Stan used two transistors in pairs - NTE247(NPN) and NTE248(PNP), which are silicon complementary transistors.
He also used NPN and PNP pairs in the steam resonator vic we are discussing.
There is a common thread here, if we expand on it and follow it more closely, I believe.
I really want to get this working - It's cold here!
Plus, how many people could use a water heater that does not use tons of amps?

Something else I found interesting is the home heating unit board itself - it has the filename "WFCDRIVR.CKT" silkscreened on it.
If someone had access to this file, it would reveal a lot. I'm sure it was on one of the computers that was with the estate.
Also, on the control board, you will see the silkscreen says "24VAC".
The transformer appears to have 7 wires (that we can see).

HMS, your assumption of the coil having a secondary with bifilar chokes seems to be supported by the patent diagram.
Notice also the chokes (only) have a common core. In other parts of the patent, Stan states the coil is "together bifilar wrapped in equal length".
There is a mention of "resonant charging chokes".
Simple in concept, extremely complex in reality.

I too am fascinated by Meyer's ability to superheat water using voltage and not current.
We CAN DO THIS!
Keep up the good work all.
I am working on extracting the circuit from the pics of the home steam heater unit.
Wish me luck.
What threw me for a loop is the bridge rectifier on the 'steam resonator' transformer heatsink.
It sure does look like a power supply setup, but why were there complementary transistors there - PNP and NPN?
We know the following from that picture:

The Collectors of the two PNP transistors are tied together, and go to a black wire that has been cut.
The emitters of one of the NPN and PNP transistors (the pair to the left) go through a 220 ohm resistor and then tie together to the coil.
The emitters of the transistor pair to the right do the same.
The base connections on all transistors have been cut.
It is almost like an h-bridge of some type, but this is not certain.

There is conflicting information floating around - since no one has been able to get the dunebuggy version of the vic to do anything, it makes me wonder:

Artinvegas says Stan had the coils made from stainless steel wire he had epoxy coated at a company in NC.
Don says the wire was copper magnet wire, AWG29.
Who is right and who is wrong? Did Don physically disassemble the coils to verify they were only copper?

Also, what kind of core was used - did Stan make his own?
It seems there would be a supplier somewhere.
I simply do not see how such a small number of turns could make KV output.
All my tests show very low voltage out, certainly not KV.
Are we all chasing a pipedream with this? Perhaps when Stan's stuff was confiscated, these vics were planted byt the MIB to throw people off, as they did with the rotary vic motor?
A lot to think about...

Thanks for the update Tony - could this waveform be generated from a simple square wave generator or something? I believe Meyer increased the voltage before sending it to the resonator plates?

Quote from: Dave on December 12, 2011, 18:20:06 pm

If the cells polarity switched with each pulse, wouldn't that be equivalent to the steam resonator? In the sales manual Stan states that there is both a static and alternating field being applied to the cell. I don't understand how that one would work?

Yes, I was just about to point that out. In the Steam Resonator circuit, the gate pulses make the transistor switch the polarity on the plate, much like a H-bridge circuit. The voltage acts much like AC, but pulsed in a way to limit current. As you can test with AC voltage, it will not fracture the water but it will heat it up pretty fast. With tests that I have done with 120vac, I was able to super heat the water from room temp. to over 220 degrees in a matter of minutes. Here is a scope shot of what the output of the Steam Resonator pulses should look like.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_pulse.jpg)

Am I correct in saying that the steam resonator design still uses a feedback coil and ultimately uses the same drive circuit that the resonant cavity does?
My theory on this is due to the fact that in Stan's steam resonator patents and other diagrams, he makes sure to show that the 'dielectric property of water' has to be tuned into on the steam resonator as well. Would  the only major difference between the resonant cavity coil and the steam resonator coil be that it is missing the chokes? Since we are heating the water and not splitting it? It makes sense to me...

Bubz,

Nice find! It is interesting in that the document refers to frequencies that affect the water molecule.
I believe the steam resonator is not as specific as the resonant cavity unit though, as it only needs to pulse two plates alternately + then - in sequence.
I believe our issues lie in the transformer design. The only ones I know who have been successful are Tony and Don, to some degree.
I am not aware of any others who claim to have the steam resonator working, or to have heated water any other way aside from electrolysis.
I will try augus' circuit and see if I get better results than with Tony's resistor heater!

Augus: Is the 1khz source in your diagram from another external 1khz source or is it the 4047 listed in the circuit?

HMS, the scope reading is from Tony's circuit with the TIP120 transistors, and there are no high value resistors in the circuit...

I am discovering some interesting pulse combinations with this circuit, but still no hot water, regardless of water type (distilled, tap, well, etc.)

@Tony:

Did you use resistive wire in your vic by chance?
I am using copper on pri and sec and both have no effect...
Primary: 7.5 ohm
Secondary: 72 ohm
It could also be the core I am using - it is a ferrite rod with permeability of around 200.
I am not using any chokes...

Thanks for the clarification.
I will input 5V square waves and see what happens.
The transformer - it looks like a 1:1 - is that right?
Also, wouldn't some diodes be needed on the output to cut down the back EMF and
to protect the TIP120's, or is that what we are after?

I will try a few different ones to see which works best.
Wouldn't it be great if I could get some hot water!!

What kind of transformer would be best - a step-up?
I know Stan had two different resonators - one had 4 conductors, the other had only two.
The waveforms appear to be correct now, but nothing happens at the cell regardless of what you do.

The greatest mystery is - what goes between the output of the circuit and the cell - a diode on the secondary?
Perhaps a diode needs to be added to the output of the circuit before the transformer?
Also, how long did your cell take to heat up the water at all?
Are the signal inputs actually 5V or 12V?

Tony,

Yes, I saw info on him, and the discovery is amazing.
However, like most good technology, there are no specifics or replications.
He has passed away, it appears.
I will do some research and try to find a sig gen that will work.
Do you think the signal generator from Stan's 8xa circuit will work?
I think the main issue is the interface between the signal generators and the driver board.
Thanks for all the help!