timeshell

I've been doing some investigating into fast recovery and very low voltage forward diodes.  It seems to me if we want to have the most voltage available inside the VIC circuit that we want make sure that there's minimal resistance from the other components in the VIC, such as the diodes voltage forward.  Any resistance should exclusively be from the inductors.

Some Schlottky diodes have a Vf as low as 0.2V.  I'm starting to believe that Meyers reference to switching diodes was actually a reference to to these low voltage forward diodes or something similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottky_diode

PIN diodes also seem to have interesting properties.

TS

In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.

See attached image.  There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz.  The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz.  When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V.  When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V.  The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V.  Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.

TS

What is the configuration of the circuit? what frequency is that happening? are you pulsing this coil in series with the cell? no vic?

As I explain in the video, the coil is wound with 5 strands in parallel.  These make up the actual VIC in they way they are connected.  So the cell and the VIC coils are connected exactly as Meyers describes.  The coils are around an air core wound bifilar style.  I estimate up to 250 turns.

Based on previous experiments with resonance on Charles Seiler's circuit and results I had when trying to step up this coil, I believe the number of turns on the secondary and the chokes may not actually have the effect on resonance that we are all expecting.  I will need to do more experiments to confirm this.

The cell I am using is a pair of stainless steel pipes, the inner is 1" long, the outer is 3/4" long (same as my other videos).

Water was originally distilled, although it is likely somewhat contaminated now.

The frequency varied but in phase lock it was between 1.8kHz and 2.2kHz (I need to confirm this).

You may have noticed in the video that when I first adjusted the frequency that it went in and out of resonance at first, but by the end of the video it was locked in resonance.

Gas was coming out the whole time, whether in resonance or not, but I think the point was at resonance it is the most efficient.  It was not an earth shattering amount of gas but it was a steady flow.  Quite frankly however, I'm not sure 1. That the VIC circuit is driving enough current to the primary and 2. The coil is optimized properly.   Again, more experimenting needs to be done.  However it seems to me that this VIC circuit would need to be scaled up for larger cells/applications somehow.

TS

Dito!

Nice work, mr Shell. ( Quick or Time)
Looking forward to see a video of yr production durIng resonance and also without resonance, including voltage/amperage input.

I do not want to be the party destroyer. If you get gas under special conditions, then you must research it futher in details! But always keep comparing strait DC vs. yr new setup and gas output.

Just some advise from an experienced tester, who did more then 1000 tests on hho..

Steve

Lol

Thanks Steve, I am also a long time tester of HHO.  However, I stumbled on this just before a period where my time is severely limited.  As I have already mentioned, I fully intend to do some more experimentation and provide more results.  However in the meantime I have provided details I thought may interest everyone.

(lol @ Quick ... Time; timeshell name wasn't available on YouTube; funny since I made that name up a long time ago)

TS

Please see this video for a quick and dirty demo.  I'll provide more detail at a later date.



TS

In every simulation I have done, once a blocking diode is introduced into a tuned resonant circuit resonance more or less stops.  Not only does resonance stop, but the wave forms on both sides of the cell become synchronized in parallel rather than mirrored.  Additionally, the peak voltage on the cell goes from as high as 20kV down to about 200V when the blocking diode is in the circuit.

1.  I have to wonder:
  a) what the blocking diode is really meant to do
  b) if the blocking diode is really even necessary

2.  In the simulation one of the last things I have tried to make resonance work with the blocking diode is to put a second capacitor in the VIC circuit which connects the chokes to each other on the side away from the cell, and is around quadruple the value of the cell itself.   The value of this second capacitor seems to have no effect on the calculated resonant frequency, and allows the cell now to resonate with the blocking diode in place in the normal position.  The peak voltage on the cell doesn't come near the peak voltage without the diode, but does about double the peak voltage it would otherwise reach without it.

I'd really like to know if anyone else has tried these scenarios without the blocking diode.  It seems to me with all my simulations that the highest voltage only occurs with unrectified AC current at resonance. 

TS

Presumably, in the VIC the choke is designed in such a way so as to completely limit current only to the point that the current doesn't pass the choke.  However, since the voltage is leading the current by 90*, the voltage still does leave the choke, even though the current does not.  There must be a zone where if the impedance of a choke is too high that the voltage does not pass or too low that current still does.  Is this the probable reason for the choke on the negative side (the current source) being variable?

TS

The quote below from another forum refers to this patent:  http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument;jsessionid=00FF002D301F0117FAC673F115883C30.espacenet_levelx_prod_5?CC=CA&NR=2594905A1&KC=A1&FT=D&date=20090118&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP

[glow]
If I understand the patent correctly, it is primarily the reluctance of the metal for the two coils of the secondary, being different than the reluctance of the metal of the primary.  The flux path in the metal for the secondaries becomes the path of least resistance.  This in turn allows for energy gain.  And not just a small amount of COP.  3200%!!

Many on this board have spent a great deal of time (years) and money, trying to achieve COP >1.

Thane, who was once a major contributor to this forum has discovered something far more important than his earlier experiments.

I wish for all here to read the Patent and to come to their own conclusion and to attempt replication, on any scale.


EDIT:
The link appears to now be again working!  (YEA!)  Link is two posts above!!

Cheers,

Bruce
[/glow]


I thought this may be of some interest.

TS

New version placed of the birth of a new technology with all pages.
The first version was copied single sided.
Now it is double sided.
see page one of this topic.

Steve

File name spelling is wrong.   

TS

its all about the resonant frequency of the choke !!!!!! thats what restricts amps on each side

Ok, so what are the parameters to build a choke with a SRF (self resonating frequency) of 5kHz, for example.

TS

You made a 50 feet SS coil and applied dc to it under water?

sebos

Yes.  Made a plexiglas scaffold and wound the wire through it in such a way to make use of the space effectively without it touching.   The SS wire was the electrode that the gas came off of.   I'll dig it up and post a picture later.  Something I made 6 years ago.

 TS

Once i made a series cell with around 30 plates and connected the battery only to the end plates, the result was that only the end plates generated gas but i attributed this to the fact that they were all sitting in water and that probably the current preferred to leak thru the water than follow the plates route.

My first water cell trials were using SS wire.  My second cell I tried making an elaborate coil of about 50 feet in length. However, I found once applying 12V to it that only about a third of it would make HHO.  I was baffled by it until I started measuring the volts at various points along the wire.  I discovered that the volts kept going down the further I went down the wire until it stopped making HHO at around 2.2V.

TS

About the lights string this fact is new to me. I still strongly believe is only about contact resistances and non equal share of temperatures. If it do behave as you described, those close to ground are dimmed? How do you explain that? If you are using a battery to feed them, what happens if you touch the battery positive to earth ground? what if you simply revert the polarity?

The greater the temperature in a filament the greater or lower is its resistance?

There is a cumulative resistance.  Think about the effect of voltage across multiple resistors inline.  The voltage across each resistor takes a piece of the voltage when you measure at each point.  If you were to measure for voltage across two of the resistors you would get the value of R1 + R2.  The same with the lamps.  Each has resistance.  Measure the voltage across L1 and then across L1 + L2 together.  Whatever value you get subtract from your source voltage and you end up with the amount used by the remainder combined.  If the 9V lamp cannot get the volts needed, it cannot illuminate correctly.

Etc, etc.

The only way to ensure components in a circuit get the same amount of volts is to hook them up in parallel.

TS

A capacitor and inductor do have the same reactances at resonance. think about it.

I have already removed that statement.   I misread.  My apologies.

TS
 


sorry i mistakenly edited your post while trying to post.

Frankly ohms law is not that mystic. The example you gave about the lamps is not very real, they should all light up with same intensity if in series, the problem is that they are not exactly the same in real world and their resistances can even change with temperature. They all share the same current, the current times the resistance give the voltage across each lamp.

Quite frankly, put a string of 10  x 9V incandescent lights in series and then hook them up to a 9V battery and then come back and say that.  There is a cumulative resistance for each one in the series and end effect will be the the next in series will be dimmer than the previous until the rest do not light at all.  This was demonstrated to me the first time in grade 4 science class (primary school).    I have proved this with my own experiments.

Chokes are designed to block high frequency while allow low frequency to pass. A capacitor does the contrary it blocks low frequency while allo high frequency to pass. they are kind of filters. A microwave has two chokes between the source of current for the filament and the filament of the magnetron... given the *  high frequency they are quite small.

A resonant choke blocks frequency only within a range, and its impedance is extremely high for the specific frequency. A resonant choke means a coil with a tuning capacitor in parallel with it.

Band pass and band stop filters are designed to do what you have described here and require both a capacitor and an inductor either in series or in parallel depending on the application.


TS

I agree with that statement, namely voltage doesn't "flow", however its influence is apparently capable of being limited by resistance. If you put a bunch of lights in series, the first lights up and the rest in series gradually light up less due to voltage resistance.  However, if you string them in parallel, all the lights have equal voltage available to them and they all light up.

In the case of the inductor, the voltage wave advances when the magnetic field restrains the current.  The resistance of the inductor also reduces the available voltage, potentially to an unusable state.  It seems to me that chokes designed specifically to impede the current while permitting voltage is key to the effect (if this is even possible).

Quite frankly,  I'm beginning to wonder if the lower the impedance the better in the VIC.  If the impedance of the water capacitor is less than the impedance of the choke, the choke is going to try to force the current through the water capacitor.  However, if the impedance of the water capacitor is greater than that of the choke, it will resist that current and properly allow it to resonate with voltage.

TS

Isn't this why we are applying energy to the cell?

TS

Another quick video demonstrating the cell, scope, and VIC circuit.




TS

the link is not working for me...

Copy and paste into browser:



TS

@TS,

Question:
How do you test if you have resonance with the [C] WFC capacitance and [L] positive choke inductance?
Or do you have [LC] choke self-resonance?

Regards

I will provide details and answers to questions later in the week as I am too busy at present to give attention to them.  However, if you have further questions or thoughts until then, please keep adding them and I'll try to answer them all when I have time.

TS