Purpose for variable choke in VIC
Started by unknown · · 18 posts
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#1 ·
Presumably, in the VIC the choke is designed in such a way so as to completely limit current only to the point that the current doesn't pass the choke. However, since the voltage is leading the current by 90*, the voltage still does leave the choke, even though the current does not. There must be a zone where if the impedance of a choke is too high that the voltage does not pass or too low that current still does. Is this the probable reason for the choke on the negative side (the current source) being variable?
TS -
#2 · date not recorded
well, voltage doesn't really flow, its just the potential for current to flow. I would think that the higher the impedance the better, but i could be wrong. -
#3 · date not recorded
I agree with that statement, namely voltage doesn't "flow", however its influence is apparently capable of being limited by resistance. If you put a bunch of lights in series, the first lights up and the rest in series gradually light up less due to voltage resistance. However, if you string them in parallel, all the lights have equal voltage available to them and they all light up.
In the case of the inductor, the voltage wave advances when the magnetic field restrains the current. The resistance of the inductor also reduces the available voltage, potentially to an unusable state. It seems to me that chokes designed specifically to impede the current while permitting voltage is key to the effect (if this is even possible).
Quite frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if the lower the impedance the better in the VIC. If the impedance of the water capacitor is less than the impedance of the choke, the choke is going to try to force the current through the water capacitor. However, if the impedance of the water capacitor is greater than that of the choke, it will resist that current and properly allow it to resonate with voltage.
TS -
#4 · date not recorded
Hello TS_
Frankly ohms law is not that mystic. The example you gave about the lamps is not very real, they should all light up with same intensity if in series, the problem is that they are not exactly the same in real world and their resistances can even change with temperature. They all share the same current, the current times the resistance give the voltage across each lamp.
A choke creates what is called impedance. Impedance is the following: when you apply a voltage to a circuit having an inductor and the current start to flow it will develop a contrary voltage that in series with the applied one subtracts thereto the load will receive Vapplied - V across inductor. where the last is given by XL=2*pi*f*L and so V=XL*I.
Chokes are designed to block high frequency while allow low frequency to pass. A capacitor does the contrary it blocks low frequency while allo high frequency to pass. they are kind of filters. A microwave has two chokes between the source of current for the filament and the filament of the magnetron... given the freaking high frequency they are quite small.
A resonant choke blocks frequency only within a range, and its impedance is extremely high for the specific frequency. A resonant choke means a coil with a tuning capacitor in parallel with it.
If the capacitor and inductor has the same reactance, at a given frequency they are in resonance. the impedance of the circuit becomes zero. This mean that if you apply the Vt in series the circuit will behave like a resistor. Take a look at stan equations. If you apply vt in parallel the impedance seeing by the source is maximum so the current will be minimum, however across the circuit the recirculating current is of greater value.
good luck
hope you understand what i mean
In my opinion the vic are made to drive a kind of parallel resonance... And the second choke migh have another purpose...
Another possibility is that stan used the inter-turn capacitance as resonance which is certainly parallel n regard of the source. once i got an incident where my pll tuned to this resonance in a transformer (was around 200khz) and the thing became light blue like a space ship i played with a bit but when i hit harder the thing blowed into fire. It was a toroidal core and the wire was steel that has a black plastic insulation, i couldn't find this wire anywhere again.
This would explain why he coupled the feedback into the transformer and not in an external coil. -
#5 · date not recorded
Frankly ohms law is not that mystic. The example you gave about the lamps is not very real, they should all light up with same intensity if in series, the problem is that they are not exactly the same in real world and their resistances can even change with temperature. They all share the same current, the current times the resistance give the voltage across each lamp.
Quite frankly, put a string of 10 x 9V incandescent lights in series and then hook them up to a 9V battery and then come back and say that. There is a cumulative resistance for each one in the series and end effect will be the the next in series will be dimmer than the previous until the rest do not light at all. This was demonstrated to me the first time in grade 4 science class (primary school). I have proved this with my own experiments.Chokes are designed to block high frequency while allow low frequency to pass. A capacitor does the contrary it blocks low frequency while allo high frequency to pass. they are kind of filters. A microwave has two chokes between the source of current for the filament and the filament of the magnetron... given the * high frequency they are quite small.
A resonant choke blocks frequency only within a range, and its impedance is extremely high for the specific frequency. A resonant choke means a coil with a tuning capacitor in parallel with it.
Band pass and band stop filters are designed to do what you have described here and require both a capacitor and an inductor either in series or in parallel depending on the application.
TS -
#6 · date not recorded
About the lights string this fact is new to me. I still strongly believe is only about contact resistances and non equal share of temperatures. If it do behave as you described, those close to ground are dimmed? How do you explain that? If you are using a battery to feed them, what happens if you touch the battery positive to earth ground? what if you simply revert the polarity?
The greater the temperature in a filament the greater or lower is its resistance?
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#7 · date not recorded
A capacitor and inductor do have the same reactances at resonance. think about it.
I have already removed that statement. I misread. My apologies.
TS
sorry i mistakenly edited your post while trying to post. -
#8 · date not recorded
Is ok to run into confusion with so many terms.
I'm still curious about the light string stuff. it would be a serious flaw in ohms law. Even resistors won't have the same resistance. they have an acceptable range of precision. I think lamps are much worst precision in resistance.
Once i made a series cell with around 30 plates and connected the battery only to the end plates, the result was that only the end plates generated gas but i attributed this to the fact that they were all sitting in water and that probably the current preferred to leak thru the water than follow the plates route. -
#9 · date not recorded
About the lights string this fact is new to me. I still strongly believe is only about contact resistances and non equal share of temperatures. If it do behave as you described, those close to ground are dimmed? How do you explain that? If you are using a battery to feed them, what happens if you touch the battery positive to earth ground? what if you simply revert the polarity?
The greater the temperature in a filament the greater or lower is its resistance?
There is a cumulative resistance. Think about the effect of voltage across multiple resistors inline. The voltage across each resistor takes a piece of the voltage when you measure at each point. If you were to measure for voltage across two of the resistors you would get the value of R1 + R2. The same with the lamps. Each has resistance. Measure the voltage across L1 and then across L1 + L2 together. Whatever value you get subtract from your source voltage and you end up with the amount used by the remainder combined. If the 9V lamp cannot get the volts needed, it cannot illuminate correctly.
Etc, etc.
The only way to ensure components in a circuit get the same amount of volts is to hook them up in parallel.
TS -
#10 · date not recorded
Thanks
Thats clear for me now.
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#11 · date not recorded
Once i made a series cell with around 30 plates and connected the battery only to the end plates, the result was that only the end plates generated gas but i attributed this to the fact that they were all sitting in water and that probably the current preferred to leak thru the water than follow the plates route.
My first water cell trials were using SS wire. My second cell I tried making an elaborate coil of about 50 feet in length. However, I found once applying 12V to it that only about a third of it would make HHO. I was baffled by it until I started measuring the volts at various points along the wire. I discovered that the volts kept going down the further I went down the wire until it stopped making HHO at around 2.2V.
TS -
#12 · date not recorded
You made a 50 feet SS coil and applied dc to it under water?
sebos
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#13 · date not recorded
You made a 50 feet SS coil and applied dc to it under water?
sebos
Yes. Made a plexiglas scaffold and wound the wire through it in such a way to make use of the space effectively without it touching. The SS wire was the electrode that the gas came off of. I'll dig it up and post a picture later. Something I made 6 years ago.
TS -
#14 · date not recorded
ah I understood, i've saw that stuff 4 years ago, I had an italian friend who payed 1200 euros for one from a Romanian guy. He had this installed at the car and claimed some better millage. When i told him that the wire was ss and not platinum like the guy said he felt like a fool.
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#15 · date not recorded
Presumably, in the VIC the choke is designed in such a way so as to completely limit current only to the point that the current doesn't pass the choke. However, since the voltage is leading the current by 90*, the voltage still does leave the choke, even though the current does not. There must be a zone where if the impedance of a choke is too high that the voltage does not pass or too low that current still does. Is this the probable reason for the choke on the negative side (the current source) being variable?
TS
the original design was two separate chokes and they could not be wound identically as relates to resonant frequency being the same for both, thats why there is a variance on one of them, to match the other.
later design has them wound together, bifilar, at the same time...etc. so the resonant frequency matches exactly
the purpose of the choke is to hit it with its inductive capacative resonant frequency in a fashion as to restrict amps and produce maximum voltage potential across the water fuel gap
its all about the resonant frequency of the choke !!!!!! thats what restricts amps on each side
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#16 · date not recorded
For me there are two fixed walue chokes and a third wariable one connected to a hidden component across the circuit. The purpose is to balance the unipolar pulses into the cell... And is adjusted according to waters dielectric properties... The woltage across the cell is 180° dephased with pulses coming from the secondary but have the same polarity.
this is my theory of what was he doing...
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#17 · date not recorded
its all about the resonant frequency of the choke !!!!!! thats what restricts amps on each side
Ok, so what are the parameters to build a choke with a SRF (self resonating frequency) of 5kHz, for example.
TS -
#18 · date not recorded
its all about the resonant frequency of the choke !!!!!! thats what restricts amps on each side
Ok, so what are the parameters to build a choke with a SRF (self resonating frequency) of 5kHz, for example.
TS
For that you need a high permeability core and dielectric constant on the insulator...
Probably a thicker wire without insulation very close one turn from the other but without touching wound around a closed toroid high permeability and under a very pure water... or filled with barium titanate ...
You want high inductance and capacitance per turn...
Another way to do that is thru the use of foil copper to roll the coil but you still need to add a core to it to lower the frequency down to 5 khz ... i would guess. The greater the number of turns the greater is the number of series of parallel resonant circuits... its intended to be a rolled foil capacitor like but having only one electrode... as the diameter increases there is going to be differences in the resonant frequencies in series so a the band width increases... to compensate for that the foil can be cut to compensate the capacitance and keep all turns resonant at the same frequency... an increase in insulation can also help compensate.
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