Building a little more on this "idea", I accidentally discovered a circuit modification using the iCircuit simulator on the iPad which gave a phenomenal result. I don't know if it's a valid simulation (seeing as there is no component that can perfectly simulate a water cell) but I thought I would share this.
The attached image shows a 0.001 resistor directly inline with both sides of the "Excitor Array". I built the "Excitor Array" to have a positive side capacitor, a negative side capacitor and a capacitor to represent a water molecule with the smallest capacitance I could make work (0.01pF).
The result is, within a second the voltage charge on the "water molecule" goes up to 30kV!! Before 2.5 seconds it's in the GV range. Before 3.5 seconds it's in the TV range! This effect will NOT happen if the resistors are removed or if the resistance value is much higher or if the resistors leads are not in direct contact with the capacitor leads.
What I perceive is happening, is that the very small resistance is allowing the voltage to get into the "ER", but, once it's in, the "ER" doesn't want to let it out, again because of that small resistance.
I have not been able to replicate the result with the Falstad simulator (which iCircuit is based on). The components seem to work a little differently there. If anyone else has other circuit simulators, please try this configuration and let us know the result.
UPDATE: I think I have managed to sort of duplicate the effect of climbing voltage in Falstad using 0.0001 resistors instead of 0.001. Over 150kV in less than 4 seconds. I have attached the configs for both the Falstad and iCircuit.
Actually the sum of all this billions of picometer order size capacitors that determine the dielectric proprieties of water.
Br
Agreed. I had considered that. What I am considering is what if you could put a single molecule in this LCL circuit. We should be able to calculate a frequency for this. Then we could, for example, put in a matrix of these micro capacitors in a simulator and observe how they resonate. Which should in turn give a better understanding visually of what's going on in the water.
Anyone know what the capacitance of a single molecule would be? How would you notate this for 2 electrons?
I believe that Stanley Meyer referred to the water molecule itself as a capacitor? Has anyone considered the resonant effect of the water molecule "capacitor" inline with the coils? The circuit in effect becomes some freekish equation of LC((1/x*(1/C))/x*C)L (or something like that, I haven't spent enough time trying to figure out the implication of it this way) if you consider it this way. What is the capacitance of these micro capacitors in parallel and series and what would be the resonant frequency of a LC (where C is the "micro capacitor" water molecule) if the chokes were directly in line with them?
When you think about it, now you have millions (billions?) of micro capacitors in series and parallel at the same time. Ideally, the goal would be to charge a large number of them simultaneously in resonance. The question is what is the most effective way to do this.
Anyone ever looked at it this way?? Or am I just way out in left field?
In every simulation I have done, once a blocking diode is introduced into a tuned resonant circuit resonance more or less stops. Not only does resonance stop, but the wave forms on both sides of the cell become synchronized in parallel rather than mirrored. Additionally, the peak voltage on the cell goes from as high as 20kV down to about 200V when the blocking diode is in the circuit.
Today I had an inspiration. I tried changing the "blocking diode" in the VIC in my simulator to a zener diode, Forward Voltage @1A at 100mV. In doing this, I was able to get the resonant action to return in the circuit where it was lost with the normal diode. Obviously this is because of the reverse current, but is it possible that the zener diode would block sufficient flow to prevent the circuit from becoming a dead short condition it would otherwise be in without the diode?
I'd love to hear some thoughts/experience on this.
Has anyone ever tried using an RF diode in the VIC? Considering the frequencies we're using, would they not be more suited to the circuit? Could this be what Meyer referred to as a switching diode?
In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.
See attached image. There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz. The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz. When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V. When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V. The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V. Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.
TS
Even further to this. If you decrease the impedance of the transformer from 900mh down to like 45mh, when gating, the cap voltage can reach >3kV!
TS
900mH-->45mH.why? bemf come from coils,more winds is more bemf?
thanks geenee
I presently cannot answer why. But in the simulation this holds as true. Try it.
In a simulation I have been able to prove that the gated pulse at resonance would actually charge a capacitor with a higher charge.
See attached image. There is a switch beside a relay that is being pulsed at 200hz. The resonant frequency of this circuit is 1.047khz. When the switch to activate the gate is off (closed), the max charge of the cap is about 50V. When the switch is opened, allowing it to gate, the cap charges to over 80V. The step up transformer is a 1:4 and the source voltage is 14V. Changing the duty cycle on the gate up to 90% increases the cap charge to up to 110V.
TS
Even further to this. If you decrease the impedance of the transformer from 900mh down to like 45mh, when gating, the cap voltage can reach >3kV!
Zinc oxide apparently has piezo electric properties. If zinc was part of the stainless steel alloy, I'm imagining that the stainless steel would physically oscillate at the same frequency of the electrical pulse. If this is the case, we could have both an electrical and physical oscillation occuring simultaneously at the resonant frequency of the circuit tuned to the resonant frequency of the tube itself. Additionally, if water does respond to the physical waveform, this should be a self amplifying effect according to my thinking.
I'm open to thoughts on this.
TS
I like your open mind, TS. Maybe if you know the end product target, you might get an answer on your question.
Steve
Sorry Steve, didn't follow the meaning of your suggestion.
TS
Have you ever defined what end product is that you need? H1, H2, NH3, CH, brownsgas, HHO, D2, D1, OH?
I say this, because the type of electronic circuit has impact on that and the type of electrode material has impact on this. By adding ambient air thru your cell, you also have influence on the output type of gas. And if you have read the Anderson threat, you can add things like radiolysis, magnetic fields, x-rays etc as well. All have impact on the end product type of gas produced.
So, TS. What is the purpose of the gas that you want to produce? Or does it only have to be lots of something like the rest thinks is necessary? I know i am very direct. Dont take this wrong please. Just trying to point out something very important, from my point of view, of course...
Zinc oxide apparently has piezo electric properties. If zinc was part of the stainless steel alloy, I'm imagining that the stainless steel would physically oscillate at the same frequency of the electrical pulse. If this is the case, we could have both an electrical and physical oscillation occuring simultaneously at the resonant frequency of the circuit tuned to the resonant frequency of the tube itself. Additionally, if water does respond to the physical waveform, this should be a self amplifying effect according to my thinking.
I'm open to thoughts on this.
TS
I like your open mind, TS. Maybe if you know the end product target, you might get an answer on your question.
Steve
Sorry Steve, didn't follow the meaning of your suggestion.
Zinc oxide apparently has piezo electric properties. If zinc was part of the stainless steel alloy, I'm imagining that the stainless steel would physically oscillate at the same frequency of the electrical pulse. If this is the case, we could have both an electrical and physical oscillation occuring simultaneously at the resonant frequency of the circuit tuned to the resonant frequency of the tube itself. Additionally, if water does respond to the physical waveform, this should be a self amplifying effect according to my thinking.
Thanks for sharing your idea's, TS. Maybe able to help your thoughts: What is happening at electrodes when you put voltage on them? One will electrode will have more electrons then the other one. Thats the potential difference. Thats the 2.2V you spoke of. As soon as you you put more volts on the electrodes, you create a bigger difference between them. Then U=I*R comes in. When you put 2.2V at your electrodes or 10KV doesnt matter. The reaction will be the same. Voltage = Amps times resistance The higher volts, the same resistance, the more amps. Thats a law. In case of water, higher volts create even less resistance when the molecules align, and even more amps will go.... The electrons give their charge to the ions in the waterbath.
So, if HV is the goal, then you must switch off the pulse before the water molecule are getting aligned. Thats Meyers system. Ultrashort pulses. But the issue is if that creates gas or not. Sofar no results by anybody. I know from first hand observers that the alternator setup was pumping high amps, because the observer had put his hand on the cables going to the cell of that setup. I think that the high voltage pulses where used to get more amps in a smaller unit and to be able to use any kind of water.
Steve
Yah Steve, thanks. But I do understand all that already. I'm not finished my thought on that matter. Was late when I started it and I went to sleep. I'll finish up on my thought later. I have a point in mind that I haven't made yet.
The source of the pulses isn't really relevant. Resonating is resonating.
I think we are arguing a non-issue here. The VIC is unidirectional current because of the diode.
The question then becomes what is causing the resonating action. Yes it is a resonating DC charging circuit. There is a resonating action occuring. So, what is causing it? Resonating occurs because of opposing actions from inductors, resistors and capacitors.
I'm not sure what point is being made here. Just because you have an increasing charge doesn't mean that there isn't a resonance occuring with it. Again I emphasize, by definition, resonance is a frequency. The DC current isn't producing the frequency. The pulsed primary and the choke + WFC are.
This is not about resonance, this is about restricting current in the most effective way (parametric resonance) :
I'm not sure what point is being made here. Just because you have an increasing charge doesn't mean that there isn't a resonance occuring with it. Again I emphasize, by definition, resonance is a frequency. The DC current isn't producing the frequency. The pulsed primary and the choke + WFC are.
