timeshell

An electrolytic capacitor might not have different size electrodes.  I'll try to demo my cap meter with a variety of caps soon.

Make sure if you had your tube pair wet that you dry them well. If there is water between them still it can skew your reading.

Not all capacitance meters are as accurate as they should be.  Ronnie referred me to the type I have the link for.  I'll make a video showing it working soon.

A reminder that not only should the reading be different in both directions, but you actually want it that way.  Otherwise, you won't have a difference in the chokes and then you will end up completely blocking the current which you don't want to do.

Well I definitely agree any voltage will tend to polarize the water.  I was more referring to it staying polarized when the charge is still there and no electricity is being directly applied.

I don't know any more specifics about the water except that the spring water is supposed to be natural so contains no chlorine.  It probably has some natural minerals in it.  Here is an example of a label about mineral content from bottled spring water:

INGREDIENTS
NATURAL SPRING WATER. DISSOLVED MINERAL SALTS: 180 PARTS PER MILLION. FLUORIDE IONS: 0.1 PARTS PER MILLION

I understand that electrolysis requires 1.47V minimum to start, so this is why I'm uncertain what to make of the meter reading.  There is obviously some kind of residual charge, but I don't know how to quantify it.

I was also using a self resonating radiant charging circuit to do this, not the Stan Meyer circuit.  The time period it was running I'm not certain about, but you do see the one pipe has white oxides on it.  Might have been several hours.

The cool thing about this however is I believe it suggests that the water is indeed polarized.

Fabio

1.  It wasn't a few minutes... It was hours.
2.  It wasn't just a trickle that slowed down over time but was constant.
3.  My outer pipe was shorter than the inner one.  Because of this, I'm pretty sure you could see new bubbles forming.

I'm hoping I show the voltmeter in the video... That would very nicely confirm what I'm telling you.  I've been looking all over for it, but can't seem to find it for some reason.  I found it by accident a few months ago, so I must have it in a place I've forgotten about.

At the time I made the video, I recorded specifically because I was seeing activities on the cell which I didn't see before.  I understand your skepticism.  I'm pretty sure you will change your mind when you see it.

I used this method to charge and maintain a charge on my cell and afterward remove the power to it and it then continued to produce gas without power.  I did this 8 or 9 years ago.  I have a video showing it.  At the time I didn't realize what I had.  I don't remember offhand, although I say it in the video, but I think it kept making gas for more than an hour or two.... maybe even longer.

I have an engineer's brain.

Read from this post forward.

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=876.msg36019#msg36019

Fabio, I really feel your frustration for you and everyone else here.  Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you.  Stan has given the schematics for the VIC minus the inductance and capacitance values.  And rightly so because they will change based on the WFC being used.  All that is left is, what do you do with it.  And I have given you all the information you already need to know to do so.  As has Ronnie.

Make a spreadsheet in Excel or LibreOffice Sheets.

Make a section for each coil (primary, secondary, choke1, choke2)
Make a section for the WFC

Calculate the fequencies, voltages, resistances, impedances and reactances for each of these based on min and max values and sizes

Design your WFC and VIC coils in the Stan Meyer style with these parameters in mind.

This is almost ALL the information you need along with what I have already told you.

Fabio, I'm not playing games.  I know how it works.  I have been watching a lot of ridiculous theories over the last few years.  But my own experimenting over the years supports the information that Ronnie has been providing before I met Ronnie.   My discoveries started when I first spoke to you 10 years ago.  And I have videos to prove my own experiments.

I'm offering clear information on my own results, but I'm not playing games either.  I'm not here for attention but to be helpful.  You haven't seen me here for a few years now and it's not because I didn't know these things a few years ago.

I will answer questions and provide guidance to those who want to know.  And quite frankly, I challenge everyone here to dispute with evidence anything I have offered against what Stan has taught in his videos and is written in his patents.  The fact of the matter really is, and I can see why it appears this way, that the only reason it looks like games to people is:
1.  They are looking for some of the work to be done for them
2.  They don't really understand what they are looking for in the first place

I don't say this to be offensive, but like you and everyone else, I got frustrated trying to find the final pieces of the puzzle.  Ronnie didn't even directly tell me what they were but helped me to discover them.  You cannot get this to work if you can't grasp the way it's supposed to work and the steps the VIC goes through to get there.

Like I said a couple days ago, I'm not going to get into an argument over this.  I am just as happy to disappear from this discussion if nobody really wants to know.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying:
Coils shares the same core (mutual inductance),  but they are opposing each other (L1 + L2 -2M ).
So, according to my (little) knowledge, the two coils act as a single coil in series with the "capacitor"?

What you are saying essentially sounds correct if you mean the chokes effect on the WFC.  My setup, like Ronnie's, didn't use a single core like Stan's did.   Our set up, which admittedly seems a little weird to me, actually had the primary coupled with one choke on one core and the secondary coupled to the other choke on another core.  The net effect was the same however as the coils were oriented so that the collapsing fields opposed their neighboring coils (choke to secondary to choke) and had the effect of limiting the current.

The type of water used is not important, just as Stan said.  When the water is polarized it can be charged.

This is because the chokes are used to restrict the amps, not block them entirely as some leakage is necessary to start the process.  Then as gas forms, the capacitance will start to decrease.  Start at lower voltage, like 2V.  Otherwise you won't have room to gradually increase the voltage and retune resonance as the capacitance decreases. This allows you to gradually maximize the charge.

Due to health reasons, I am no longer actively working on this project.  This is why I haven't been seen here much in the last few years.  Like I said, I know what I have and am offering some hints.

Before discrediting us, read, learn and test the instructions he provides. There is a measure of intelligence required to make this project work.  It's not that it's incredibly difficult to understand however.  But, as I said earlier, the process is like a program. The VIC circuit, although appearing relatively simple, is actually specifically designed to accomplish several steps.  You need to be able to grasp this to move forward.  It will never work straight out of the box without proper understanding, design, testing, tweaking.

I really have no desire to get into a pissing match over this and will very happily disappear from this discussion.  I don't need the stress in my life over this.

Here's another little hint why you need electrolysis to start.

And it's actually why the chokes are slightly different from each other to allow a little current through.  If you choke off the current completely, you can't create any gas.  No gas, no ability to increase charge between the plates.  If you can't increase the charge, you can't pull the molecule apart. I'm sure everyone here has already figured out when you throw high voltage across the WFC that it only ever shows a small voltage when you measure it. That's because of current leakage in the water between the plates.  To stop the current leakage, you have to get rid of the water.  To get rid of the water, you use the electrolysis to start your process.

Your welcome.

Of course there is still more to it to get it going, but like I said, I'm not re-explaining the whole process here.

I know what I have.

Have a nice day.

Says the guy who hasn't got it to work yet.

Actually, the first part of the process requires electrolysis.  It switches over to voltrolysis after the gas replaces the water between the plates.  If you don't understand this, you will never get it to work.

The WFC is essentially a variable capacitor.  You need to understand that in order to design your VIC and pulsing circuit.  You need to design your coils to resonate with the variable WFC capacitor at specific low and high frequencies in the range of the WFC and then use your pulsing circuit to charge it starting at a low voltage at the lower frequency and then keep increasing the voltage gradually, tuning it as you go, up to the higher frequencies.

I actually missed the step of polarizing the water.  You need to start with this.  I have updated the list.  However, I have only given a very top level explanation here.  I do understand the full process, mostly from discovery and experimenting, and Ronnie Walker filled in a few gaps for me and explains it in more detail in his forum.  I'm not going to re-explain it all here.

I'm really surprised you guys haven't figured this out yet.

The VIC is a program, a set of circuit instructions.

1.  Polarize the water
2.  At low voltage start regular electrolysis which in turn...
3.  Creates HHO gas.  The HHO gradually replaces the place of the water between the plates in the water capacitor which gradually decreases the capacitance of the WFC.
4.  Keep increasing the voltage gradually while adjusting resonance
5. Eventually the gas replaces all the water between the plates allowing the charge to sky rocket and use voltage to produce HHO.

Look up Ronnie Walker's forum for details.

I'm trying to imagine how the voltage level would look if one were to compare to water pressure.   One thing that I think all of us to date have confirmed that no matter how much we try to restrict amps, we simply do not get gas with high voltage without  some current involved.

We also know there is a minimum amount of voltage required to perform normal electrolysis.    1.48V or somewhere there abouts.

Lets look at this from another perspective; I'm going to use an example where balloons are the electrodes and water the electricity.

Lets say that the balloons are full of tiny holes.   Those holes will represent electron leakage in the water.

If we fill the balloon only to the point where the balloon resists any further input without any additional pressure, there is minimal water (or in electronic terms, electron) leakage.   The more pressure we add the greater the leakage since the tiny holes in the balloon expand and allow more water to flow out.

Now, lets say we put an instantaneous high pressure of water into the balloon.  What will happen?   The balloon may instantly explode?  It may instantly swell up briefly before releasing its load.  But ultimately, the load is still expelled with a higher volume than it would with less pressure. UNLESS that pressure imposed is so short and pulls back so fast that it barely makes a ripple in the load and intact perhaps even creates a reverse load to balance the pressure within the balloon to keep the leakage constant.

Just really thinking out loud here...

Not done with this thought, but am posting what I have come up with so far as I work out my thinking on this.

TS

Has anyone here tried to measure frequency and/or voltage on water caps with/without coils inline or parallel to see what results they'd get with NO power to them?


I tried doing so to a water cell that I had left sitting in a water bath with baking soda until all the water evaporated.  I wasn't expecting any result but I got something interesting.


I was getting a self resonating frequency ranging from 5 to 7 MHz. But that was not the interesting part.  The interesting part is that there were two voltage ranges in the frequency.  The base voltage was 10mV.  However, there was a second voltage that peaked at around 40mV at much lower frequency than that of the 10mV frequency.


What seems to me may have been happening is that there were more than one self resonating frequency at work and when these frequencies converged is where it was producing a quadrupled voltage.


Incidentally, I'd like to refer back to something I read in Meyer's patent.  His circuit locked into frequency when the feedback voltage was greater than the input voltage which was supposed to occur at the desired resonant frequency.  I'm not sure that Tony's circuit works this way.


I intend to try this with other cells and configurations but have not had the opportunity yet.  Has anyone else seen anything similar to this?


TS

Now lets calculate the amount of water we need to create the same amount of hydrogen. In the document "International Independent Test Evaluation Report" (see previous attachment) I found out that H20 has 20% of hydrogen in it.

Ok, please help me here.  H2O has 20% hydrogen in it?  What is H2O again?   Isn't it it a ratio of hydrogen to oxygen at 2:1 respectively?   Doesn't that mean that 66% of water is hydrogen (not considering impurities).

Am I missing something?

TS