ALTERNATOR — IonizationX

#126 · date not recorded

http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py106/ACcircuits.html

Great reading

#127 · date not recorded

Guys i just figured out how the circuit should be if i would like to trigger the EEC just before current start to flow in the inductor (vic).

I basically divide the frequency signal from the pll pin 4 by 2 using a 4017 ic and than combine this 2 diferent signals into a nor gate (4001) witch will create a third positive signal when the 2 signals happen to be both 0 logic. Having the vic the ability to double the frequency, its feedback will need no dividing to close the pll circuit...

This will allow me to have a pulse exactly after 90° from the first pulse trigering the vic because the 4429 driver i´m using inverts the signal... other wise i would need to use an and gate instead of a nor gate to have (theoreticaly) the right signal. (also the signal coming from the nor gate must pass thru a optocoupler and again the 4429 as to remain uninverted) as from the drawing

Don´t complain about the drawings, if is not good enough for you to understand, try drawing it yourself... If you still don´t understand, read the datasheets or google logic gates...

For the optocoupler part;

Must have its own isolated power supply
Regulator 7808 (doing good here) 8v
than
in series with the laser diode a 500ohm resistor (this must beconnected to the nor gate circuit grownd and output )

Than the emiter of the opto must go to the isolated grownd such as the 4429 grownd too

the colector from the opto should go to the pin 2 of the 4429 and from the same pin 2 should go a 1 or 2 kohm resistor to the isolated positive

Basically only the diode of the optocoupler should be connected to the first circuit

When the puse go to the optocoupler it will short the pin 2 from the 4429 to the ground making it to start conducting...

i´m going to build this circuit today for doing some tests

I´m trying to understand

Are you?

i Would not like to talk alone.

attachment_6049 logical circ.png

sebosfato

#128 · date not recorded

Now

here the circuit Wave forms:

i´m making a study of the current lagging voltage graphics too, for me to understand better this phenomenom ...

attachment_6051 wave forms.png

sebosfato

#129 · date not recorded

Usually output impedances should be low, less than a tenth of the load impedance connected to the output. If an output impedance is too high it will be unable to supply a sufficiently strong signal to the load because most of the signal's voltage will be 'lost' inside the circuit driving current through the output impedance ZOUT. The load could be a single component or the input impedance of another circuit.

(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/images/zload.gif)The load can be a single component or
the input impedance of another circuit

Low output impedance, ZOUT << ZLOAD
Most of VSOURCE appears across the load, very little voltage is 'lost' driving the output current through the output impedance. Usually this is the best arrangement. Matched impedances, ZOUT = ZLOAD
Half of VSOURCE appears across the load, the other half is 'lost' driving the output current through the output impedance. This arrangement is useful in some situations (such as an amplifier driving a loudspeaker) because it delivers maximum power to the load. Note that an equal amount of power is wasted driving the output current through ZOUT, an efficiency of 50%. High output impedance, ZOUT >> ZLOAD
Only a small portion of appears across the load, most is 'lost' driving the output current through the output impedance. This arrangement is unsatisfactory.

This web site is very good, it have lot of info on electronics... from logic gates to power suplies ...

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/imped.htm

sebosfato

#130 · 13 Sep 2010

sO BASICALY

Inductor

current lags voltage or
voltage leads current because
WHen a voltage is applied to an inductor, it will readly start to drop while the current will start to flow acelerating electrons in "speed" toward the positive... and when voltage reach the 0 the current reach the maximun speed and than by the back emf created, it reverses its direction and start to accelerate in the reversed direction...

if you apply voltage to an inductor it will make the electrons flow thru its wire and this movement create a magnetic field on the inductor witch is oposed by the permeability of the free space and + that of the core... is mutch like inertia... thus creating bemf.
Like a spring geting compressed full of energy than liberating this energy...

A capacitor instead

Have current leading the voltage, because the voltage in a capacitor will be the result of the accumulation of charges so it need to accumulate before you have a voltage... ~so current leads voltage...

Is good to remember that voltage is not movement but potential, and current is movement and not potential...

So when all the potential is given to a body it will have its max speed and when this body climbs up the capacitor mountain it will have its potential back.

So when voltage is applied to a capacitor current start to deaccelerate until it reach the min while voltage reached the maximun...

In the inductor current start to accelerate until max speed is reached and just like a spring reverses the direction and start accelerating again in the other direction....

This make me think that meyer maybe was using the vic as a mean of apply voltage to the water ions while not allowing the water to charge than this current that were to start charging the capacitor is redirected to it some how... (probably at 90° phase)

or something like that

What do you think about?

CrazyEwok

#131 · 14 Sep 2010

I think i have already said this, but have you thought that the alternator was used to modify the frequeny over some unapparent magical force??? the electric motor was used to adjust the RPM of the Alternator to the desired output. Low voltage and amps meant little power was needed but he simply adjusted the primary on the alternator with a gated signal. Or if you like,
Gated input --- Signal alternator (first frequency) --- Frequency alternator (second frequency) --- Cell. This would line up with Phuriac's work, also why he only needed a small amount of voltage (1.2V per mm gap i would say). If this is true then neither of them birthed this technology simply the method.

outlawstc

#132 · 14 Sep 2010

ewok i like your idea.. the alternator provides a nice 50 percent duty on it own.. why not use its frequencys to drive resonance! then gate! i wounder if stan was able to vary the rpm continuely to maintain resonance? like the driving motor is speeding up and slowing down determined by a pll circuit that is detecting resonance?

CrazyEwok

#133 · 14 Sep 2010

You wait for the idea of self tuning of the first alternator using the conductivity of the water in the cell...

outlawstc

#134 · 14 Sep 2010

bam like a bolt of lightning.. light bulb is lit on top of head...

genius!!! so simple it might just work ewok!

can you explain your approach to the task.. you adding salt slowly to a cell containing distilled water??

CrazyEwok

#135 · 14 Sep 2010

If your using frequency to split the water then you will need a voltage range, being that salt water and distilled water will require different voltages in order to split. For a basic start a small gap (work with the same gap as the cell/s) then connect a static generator, the voltage will rise until it can travel through the gap, use the tail end of the connection at the signal wire to adjust input voltage (or ampere depending on wiring)

sebosfato

#136 · 14 Sep 2010

Hello guys

i didn´t understood very well what you saying...could you explain me better?

I tryed pulsing the field coil, however the frequency coming out is only dependent on the rpm

Do you guys now about the thane hein bitoroidal transformer?
He claim to be able to create energy by magnetizing a core and inducing this magnetism to another core for being able to use the energy whithout leting the back emf goes back into the primary thus primary have 0 power factor and thus almost 0 power loss...

What i´m saying about retarding the pulse of the secondary or to start its conduction only after 90° could acomplish that couldn´t it?

Think like this you pulse the primary, doing this you magnetize the core, if you have a shorted secondary you will have a very low inductance on the primary and thus you will have high amp consuming... However if you wait until the magnetic field become max or 90° later, you should be able to discharge the magnetic field without making the circuit hungry for amps...

what you think about this?

And

I worked all night long on a schematic for the electron extraction circuit and i came up with something that will actually double the frequency as stan said and at the same time would allow the ions to discharge extracting the electrons from the oh- ions and in a separate circuit ( wiper arm coil) give electrons to the H+ ions... without discharge the water...

It would need the coil to be bifilar because you will discharge the magnetic field of one coil into the other;.;

and would restrict amps because the current will flow in oposite directions on the coils...

it would than need 2 or 3 diodes or 2 diodes and one igbt or tiristor i´m not sure...

I started by analising what happen during the pulse and during the of pulse with the voltage on theh coils...

I also figured that stan gave us the impedance calculation for us to be able to design the transformer for driving the coils and water;;

example

water 78ohms + 2 coils maybe 4 ohms + secondary maybe 10 ohms

than you have the impedance so you can chose the primary and secondary inductances of the transformer because you already knows the resonant frequency because you already know the capacitance and inductance....

So lets say you have a 100 ohm load
you design the transformer for this load ar its particular frequerncy

There is not a fit to all frequencyes transformer;;;;

it must be espetialy designed for it to work

Howver the idea is simple (forget the 90° stuff for now)

you apply the pulse to the cell thru the diode and the 1 coil.

when the pulse is of the coil will reverse polarity and the side close to the diode will become positive, there goes a igbt, witch is connected to the negative side of the cell

the negative side of the secondary is connected straight to the negative side of the cell

and also connected to the same negative side of the cell goes the other bifilar coil

The other side of this bif coil witch is coupled to the 1 one; is connected to another diode and than to the positive side of the cell... This would allow to have aN aways positive voltage applied to the cell...

BAsically the cell will have the exact púlse stan shown...

here is the drawing

the bif coils should cancel each other field

notice the polarity

red ones are the polarity during on pulse

and blue off pulse

attachment_6053 fig3-22[1].gif

sebosfato

#137 · date not recorded

Got some news on my alternator setup

got frequencies like 1250hz fundamental and overtones from positive of the bridge rectifier to the middle of the star connection

got 2450hz and harmonics from full bridge rectifier configuration... up to 45v

i just have a problem my motor is weak and under load will reduce too much its speed.. i have only a 1/3 hp motor

however

got an interesting idea

What if!!! we oscillate the water with an inductor causing ac resonance, but we provide a dc off set synchronized with the resonance?

in my opinion the alternating current on the water will not have the 1,24volts limitation and so the dc off set will allow that half of the current of the ac voltage to be dc somehow... check this:

$ 1 5.0E-6 0.20306040966347483 44 5.0 50
w 496 256 544 336 0
v 96 224 96 320 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 96 224 192 224 0
d 496 336 496 256 1 0.805904783
T 192 224 288 320 0 0.01 30.0 -3.8312805302159054 0.1281279753822593
r 96 320 192 320 0 0.031
T 368 176 448 256 0 0.0010 1.0 -0.013280367480126981 -0.11484760790211884
w 448 256 448 320 0
c 352 112 464 112 0 1.0E-9 846.3556532423378
d 352 256 352 112 1 0.805904783
w 448 176 352 112 0
w 352 256 368 256 0
w 288 224 288 96 0
w 288 96 400 64 0
w 400 64 464 112 0
r 352 112 400 64 0 10000.0
c 352 256 448 320 0 1.0E-10 -1383.1095449913214
c 368 176 432 224 0 1.0E-10 -1383.0982502691068
w 432 224 448 176 0
l 368 176 464 112 0 0.03 0.026522563918445055
w 288 320 288 352 0
w 448 320 448 352 0
d 288 352 448 352 1 0.805904783
c 288 384 448 384 0 1.0E-7 -386.7594434274493
r 288 416 448 416 0 1.0E8
w 448 384 448 416 0
w 448 384 448 352 0
w 288 352 288 384 0
w 288 384 288 416 0
o 8 1 0 291 1280.0 0.2 0 -1
o 15 1 0 289 640.0 0.2 1 -1
o 9 1 0 289 1280.0 0.4 2 -1
o 5 64 0 33 0.078125 25.6 3 -1
o 19 1 0 35 1280.0 0.4 4 -1
o 15 1 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 5 -1

i added some stray capacitances and resistances
adjusting the inductor in series with the coupled chokes (witch generate the dc offset) you minimize the ac voltage or the negative peak...

jst an idea...

result 4 amps 12v

960v across the capacitor having 81v negative peak... would this make electrolysis???

oh and notice that i'm inputing about 50w peak and i'm getting 90w peak across the resistance...

the boton diode is not really needed but help a bit

this second circuit uses a capacitor instead of the inductor in series and get
6,5amps 12v peak 75w consume

but the resistor see a peak of 1,2kv positive and 100v negative with peak 140watts

$ 1 5.0E-6 0.37936678946831776 44 5.0 50
v 96 224 96 320 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 96 224 192 224 0
T 192 224 288 320 0 0.01 30.0 3.4891578105593046 -0.11781053490479582
r 96 320 192 320 0 0.1
T 368 176 448 256 0 0.0010 1.0 0.19521730092645329 0.12404826010594122
w 448 256 448 320 0
c 352 112 464 112 0 1.0E-9 51.92665902947
d 352 256 352 112 1 0.805904783
w 448 176 352 112 0
w 352 256 368 256 0
w 288 224 288 96 0
w 288 96 400 64 0
w 400 64 464 112 0
r 352 112 400 64 0 10000.0
c 352 256 448 320 0 1.0E-10 -59.84658654523578
c 368 176 432 224 0 1.0E-10 -59.790894328792
w 432 224 448 176 0
w 288 320 288 352 0
w 448 320 448 352 0
d 288 352 448 352 1 0.805904783
c 288 384 448 384 0 1.0E-7 -380.3310660406634
r 288 416 448 416 0 1.0E8
w 448 384 448 416 0
w 448 384 448 352 0
w 288 352 288 384 0
w 288 384 288 416 0
c 368 176 432 128 0 9.999999999999999E-5 -7.675582793168587
r 432 128 464 112 0 1.0
o 6 1 0 291 1280.0 0.2 0 -1
o 13 1 0 289 640.0 0.2 1 -1
o 7 1 0 289 640.0 0.8 2 -1
o 3 64 0 33 1.25 25.6 3 -1
o 13 1 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 4 -1
o 0 4 1 291 320.0 9.765625E-5 5 -1

outlawstc

#138 · date not recorded

With standard electrical components (capacitors, resistors, diodes transformers and logics) it is only possible to get 8.5 volts in the water fuel cell without causing amps.. sure you can get 45 but there are amps..
Sure you could put a capacitor in series to restrict amps but then you are isolating electrically.. Sure you could connect a resistor in parallel with the capacitor but does it give the same effects as figure 7 under a load? no.

First comes understanding Stans plate resistor (uniquely made electrical component), then comes the rest of the conventional parts.

Column 8 Row 65

"In generation of the hydrogen and oxygen gasses to an infinite limit, as not yet fully appreciated, the upper level of voltage level is removed WITH the UTILIZATION of the ELECTRON INHIBITOR of FIGURE 7"

The voltage level is 8.5 volts MAX with conventional parts without leakage of amps. So if you want to get higher then 8.5 volts it would be wise to take stans statement as true..

Its like the answer is in front of you but your still on a path ignoring this fact as if it weren't true..

A circuit simulator wont show you the answers.. It doesn't have the option of adding Stan's unique component into the simulator..

sebosfato

#139 · date not recorded

yes i agree with you that simulation is not going to simulate perfectly his strange components and its interactions... however on the simulation the capacitor with the resistor in parallel was the wfc ... i tried to substitute this by a small value 100ohm resistor and worked even better too... what i tried to show with this simulation is that i created a dc off set using the charging chokes mutually coupled and got higher voltage on the "water capacitor" load than the transformer was putting out... the transformer should only give 360v and i was getting up to 1200 volts with the 10kohm water resistance... using only 70 watts.. well i think this is a good figure..

i have figured out another thing

while analyzing the harmonic frequencies coming out from my alternator i get this

Fundamental = 1,140 Hz
2° Harmonic FX2 = 2,280 Hz
3° Harmonic FX3 = 3,420
4° Harmonic FX4 = 4,560
5° Harmonic FX5 = 5,700

Do you remember his equipment electrical polarization process... X, X2, X3, X4

sebosfato

#140 · 22 Oct 2010

well got some nice frequencies coming out alternator... 55volts applying 12v to the field coil... however under load the speed change so as frequency... actually the motor don't stand not even to charge the battery(got a new battery today), not even using the voltage regulator... capacitor fries cause rpm drops with load and it drop a lot... got to get a 2hp motor...(my is 1/3 Hp)

however harmonic frequencies are multiples of the fundamental, like i described.. many harmonics...

strangely 3phase full wave rectified with the six diodes not on the neutral.. i get less harmonics and fundamental is 2,280khz (double)

now i think is about driving the vic and adjust the chokes to match the right frequency... Need to understand also the wavelength thing better too... I think that i'm going to the university today and find someone that can help... =)

i will try think of this device as it was a filter. taking the high frequencies from one side §(water) and low frequencies to the inductors side... band pass maybe.. while still having a dc offset

got to find a motor today too!

but i'm going to try this things about the harmonics here,...

I was reading something really interesting about dangerous torsional resonances on crankshafts of generators witch cracks the crankshafts. The document is in my language and is from serious university of electrical engineering...

it also explains very well alternator connections and phase power ... there is one type called zigzag hehe

from now i will use neutral for the center of the star...

i would like to rewound the alternator with smaller gauge wire to get higher voltage... hell of work...

the frequency of each individual secondary of the alternator is 380 hz so i think that i have +- 3,800 Rpm...

i believe that stan used a similar rpm or close too... maybe he had a bit bigger because the alternator pulley in the picture seems a bit less than half the driving pulley... mine is half ...

more will come

CrazyEwok

#141 · date not recorded

You will need to use frequencies in multiples of your flat output.
Example,
If you put a flat 12v through your rotor and you get 1250Hz, then you should hit your rotor with say 5000Hz (AC) this, when rectified will give you the wave form you are looking for.
Also if your motor starts to slow down this is because you are pushing out amps, if your doing this then your moving away from the method described. Alternatively you can send a FM tranmission through an AM transmitter, or visa-versa. This will give you greater control over your output frequencies and the amount of amps you want to use.
I suggest you look at 200-2khz for you primary then 20-200hz for your secondary (numbers based of the AP patent 4394230)

sebosfato

#142 · 23 Oct 2010

problem is that the motor is not able not eve to charge the battery... it turns too fast...

i went down town today to find a motor but didn't found a good one yet...

i will get one 1800rpm 2 hp so i can use the same pulley witch costed me already bit.. probably i will need to machine it again to adjust to the other motor..

Actually the alternator is putting out the unipolar pulses at 1140hz... when i pulse it it mix the frequencies... i have a distorted unipolar pulses...

I thought about making it resonant adding a capacitor so as to be able to reverse the polarity of the field poles,,, it has a reminiscent magnetism witch don't allow the field to reverse...

i found a variac like 1,5kw for about 120 euros... there are ten of this... they are used.. was from a fabric... i would like pulse the field coil with the unipolar too 120hz witch i think that is important because is a multiple (or almost) of the 1140hz

sebosfato

#143 · date not recorded

I tried pulsing the alternator and got the following results... (using the same 1/3 hp motor)

Battery will charge if i pulse the field coil and the driving motor fell very little change in speed... i can pulse it from 10hz up to 100khz ... pulsing at 10 hz i get the battery charging a bit charging more than is discharging.. the field coil at this condition have 11v and 260ma 10hz...

If i raise the frequency, the amps get down to almost zero..

when i'm higher than 10khz the amps start to raise and can reach up to 1 amp close to 50khz... at about 700ma(field coil) the battery get 13,5 volts charging and the motor experiment a bit of force...(slow down just a bit) if i get up to 1 amp it experience big force...

Conclusion : will keep working =) with this motor for now.. .

Strange is that using the voltage regulator the motor will not keep turning... but pulsing the field it will..

I think that at higher pulsing frequencies the field coil or my pulsing circuit is not able to completely reverse the field thus maybe i'm getting dc on the field coil... but i'm not sure... my meters are bit crap...

What do you think about?

Donaldwfc

#144 · date not recorded

The rotor (field coil) has a certain resistance, say 3 Ohms for mine, so under a DC voltage the total impedance is just 3 Ohms

When you start pulsing the rotor (field coils) you create inductive reactance (impedance), which is proportional to the frequency. Higher Frequency = Higher Impedance.

The pulsed frequency effects both the rotor and the stator, increasing the impedance in both, and then reducing the amps.

If you find the self resonant frequency of the Stator then impedance will be a maximum, and you will restrict amps to a minimum.

sebosfato

#145 · date not recorded

Yes i understand this... and i think that is what is happening here, up to a point... because things are behaving strange

lets say 10 hz

my field coil has 3 ohms also and 22mh

so at ten hertz the reactance impedance should be 1,4 ohms

so the impedance should be around 4 ohms this should make at least 3 amps flow having 13v, but i'm getting 260ma ..

Is very strange for me... Seems like the armature add a kind of extra impedance to the change of the current direction-- but i'm not sure if this is the case.. .will keep experimenting,

i'm going to try adding a capacitor in parallel or a diode to the field coil and check what happens!

Oh and the most stranger behavior is that at a frequency higher than 10khz the amps start to get higher... at 100khz i get 1,20 amps...

I don't know if is the meter witch is crap... i'm going to try with the other meter witch can measure dc or ac current...

Thanks Donald

Dudleyhd

#146 · date not recorded

My alternator setup

trim.F5B0944C-C6A1-4CBF-B176-0A86EED0FF49.MOV

sebosfato

#147 · 31 Mar 2022

That was an strange behavior i still don’t know what was happening but still get that alternator here and is going to be put to test soon... it seems like yours but time consumed the wood i used as base..

You have a nice setup. compliments.. have you tried pulsing it?

i was looking about 3 phases and found something interesting

https://www.tutorialspoint.com/3-phase-induction-motor-definition-working-principle-advantages-and-disadvantages#:~:text=A%203%2Dphase%20induction%20motor,a%20stator%20and%20a%20rotor.

Disadvantages of Three Phase Induction Motor
The disadvantages of a 3-phase induction motor are given as follows −

The 3-phase induction motors are constant speed motors; hence their speed control is very difficult.
3-phase induction motors have poor starting torque and high inrush currents (about 4 to 8 times of the rated current).
They always operate under lagging power factor and during light loads, they operate at very worst power factor (about 0.3 to 0.5 lagging).

Its a kind of transformer with a shorted coil... it pulls the coil forwards and it keeps going...

Steve

#148 · date not recorded

Quote from: Dudleyhd on March 30, 2022, 23:30:45 pm

My alternator setup

Nice!
the bubbles escape your cell :-)

sebosfato

#149 · 12 Apr 2022

Multiphase has being in my Mind for days…

Somehow I think the alternator may be the easiest way to get good gas going

Along with infrared, pressure control or maybe vacuum

And probably capacitors to allow the resonance to come over

Meyer mention the tay he Han patent and most probably he used this tech into his and was likely one of the secrets

I think the cell must operate in very much like the way I did the tests 14 years ago but instead using two coils for the resonance at least

The reason is that is was not doubling the frequency… I had the coil and capacitors only on the outer tubes with the diodes back to back from outer to inner tubes in that two isolated cells prototype

So having another coil would let the frequency to double at each capacitor

Also I think the primary must have two sections and two drivers…

For the three phase may not be different but need 3 sets of electordes capacitors a motor to use as a coil conected to the belt and a driver 3 phase for it…

I was thinking of something of gas come out ionized there will always be a deficit of electrons in the cell and subtle capacitance is between the cell and secondary…. It depends if should Be in parallel or series…

The idea of multiphase seems to me like a way to get reactive power to be useful waking the fields thru the cells

I hope to get some time to get my alternator configured to test like this soon

Also want to try the Vic ideas…

sebosfato

#150 · 12 Apr 2022

I was thinking about the water molecule and the way we imagine it is like a two hydrogen molecules and one of oxigênio and when it’s in gas phase they would have the same molecular size however in water molecule liquid the hydrogen may be just a small point near 8 times bigger oxygen atom

So the bigger atom need higher surface to align better?