sebosfato

In this napking you see the drawing where stan represent the force between the hydrogen protons and oxygen electrosphere and the oxygen protons to the hydrogens electrons

this is the base behind covalent atraction...

is possible to understand meyer idea but when we calculate to water size the electric field holding the molecule is on the order of 10^9

thats why is for the physicists and engineers hard to believe what we are trying to accomplish

meyer args that is the resonance that makes it possible to develop a force that exceed the covalent attraction force...

in my opinion he is right there and this is the way but if the molecule is already stretched with such high electric field there is two ways to make it oscillate one is to pull even harder to stretch and the other would be to atenuate the electric field in order to make it oscilate...

let me try to explain you can go up in tension or go low to start a vibration upon a tensioned string

normaly we go up applying a further tension...

but electric fields in nature are such as the covalent bounding is prof that its a kind of field that try to cancel as fast as possible some times in complex ways look water the oxygen really wants the hydrogen electrons while hydrogen wants oxygen electrons.. we never happy with what we have if we are alone !!! 

meyer says he uses the dielectric proprieties of water to get it to break

the dielectric properties are the properties that makes a material good or bad in shielding or conducting electric fields

or how much it will conduct or hold electric fields;; the higher the values the better it conducts the electric fields.. a low capacitance need a low charge to develop a high voltage... if the capacitance has a high internal loss resistance it will take a long time to discharge

the water leaks the charge as soon as we put one into it because of two things

the electrodes are plenty of both species of ions adsorbed on their surfaces and so as soon as you go over the potential it requires to give up an electron or to gain an electron it will be shoot from the eletcrode transformed, consuming power

meyer said we must waste some power some 2 or 5 amps big deal

water cells has a polarization curve such as the polarization curve of a hydrogen fuel cell

it has 3 important parts that dictates the carachteriscs of the graph and they are related to 3 electrochemical limitations of the species to

get adsorbed or activation

to be transported , ohmic

to exist in enough amount to be transported

in the case of the fuel cell this is measured with a variable load so is just a graph  of the voltage in function of current from open to short ckt

this is how you determine the best load for a cell to be able to use the most power it can give

theoretically would of course be more eficient to have many more cells than needed so you can work where the voltage is close to open ckt so more power can be generated by the gas consumed... and so on

a water fuel cell has the same kind of polarization curve for a very small applied voltage there is very low current than it will start to rise and than will get limited to a maximum

http://www.xtremepapers.com/revision/gcse/chemistry/electricity_in_chemistry.php Other perceptions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_aqa_pre_2011/ions/electrolysisrev2.shtml
Here you see how electronegativity is important

The fact of the hydrogen forming on the negative electrode and oxigen at the positive is not a mere coincidence it's related to the greater tendency of oxygen to have the hydrogen electrons at its orbits making it more eletropositive if you want and hydrogen electrons deficiency will make it be attracted to the negative side.

Diferent electrolytes have diferent mechanisms of conduction when the ph is 7 its said to have same amount of positive and negative ions

The presence of ions is related to contaminants if there's sodium it will have more OH- ions because the H+got suffocated by sodium íons..
let's think why you get burned when get wet with sodium solutions?

The OH- bond has already half the way broken and it become a linear molecule with a net charge.

If applying positive voltage in this perspective could it somehow be possible to attract more electrons than it would repel the protons? Would it be useful?

The bottom line is that water molecule is neutral it has same number of protons and electrons so as its constituent parts was initially neutral charge only opposite spin.. 

I was thinking maybe Meyer was sorting the atoms by spin to impede the formation of water molecule since in a combustion chamber you get only spin up oxigen and spin up hydrogen the water molecule cannot be form I guess...

I also consider the possibility that he was kind of trying to make combustion of charged gas such as to get the energy of the impact to impede the stability of the molecule or at least forming it at a very intense temperature.
The problem with this is that it would leak the charge very fast upon passing the injector if it's not all plastic and also maybe the engine cylinder and piston coated with some insulator ceramic


If you get a negative voltage zone it will attract all the protons of the water for real and repel electrons

Some molecules will align others will be in the most difficult to imagine how...

If you get a positive voltage zone it will repel the protons and attract electrons to itself

Now

Electrons only can move in a electronic circuit is true but when a proton move in the electrolytes it causes the same effect in the circuit..

For example you apply a positive voltage and say you get the molecule ionized the electron not only will develop a current consumption on the high voltage line but will repel the positive proton resultant thru the electric field
This movement will cause in you opinion reaction on the input circuit?

Think about the cell has for example 5v across it but than in a moment it has a high voltage to dislodge the electrons, in what direction would it have to be to do all this ? Withou power consumption?

I can imagine what you're talking about. Like maybe controlling the voltage input at primary coil or something?

i would suggest you to try a smaller device... rain water with an electrolyte that is magnetic

i think your gap is very wide...

ref 8 http://d-nb.info/971264848/04

around this frequency my water sing... (sound comes out of it)

29awg copper double coated wire is what seems have appeared on the vics

but stan talks about using 24 awg for chokes and 36 for secondary elsewhere

My digital oscilloscope does very low frequency reading...

i will do a set of tests and film it so you can get more familiarized with what i´m doing and maybe more of you can understand what to do and do and maybe share back with us...

i really hope for all you that you can understand what i´m trying to say in the videos.. .i´ll do my best to be clear...

i will post all to my channel sebosfato  in youtube... hope it helps we start a good discussion,,, ,

i found that this false reading may not be what i expected.. it is maybe a probem of the labview module limitation of 14 samples per second....  so driving at this frequencyes low it canot avarage correctly and so gives this strange waves....
the module i use is ni9211 http://www.ni.com/datasheet/pdf/en/ds-197

but the water still shakes

http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/chembond/cb08.html

http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/vchemlib/course/mo_theory/main.html

in this link you find about this and what makes the covalent forces exist...

to take one electron out of a hydrogen molecule (H2) is easier than take the electron from the H atom... because in the H2 there is one electron left... to take this electron out is harder...

Quote from: sebosfato on May 11, 2016, 14:20:50 pm

hope you can understand....

Not really.....

If the answer is 2.10 what does that mean?

there you see they asking about the hydrogen atom that is a simplified version of course... but it gives an idea of how much electric field is required to pull apart the atom from its electron...

as you see the electron is at 27v potential in a hydrogen atom... this mean a photon with 27 electronvolts would be able to eject the only electron from it...

many molecules are easier to ionize than this...because their electron is shared... but physics can only calculate for simple atoms like hydrogen with one proton and one electron...

there is of course estimations and measured values...

electric force is equal to the charge times the electric field...

for example the force that the water molecule feel from the electrode is twice.. because it attracts a portion of it and repel another portion of the atoms inside the molecules,,

for example is possible to calculate from this the stretching of the molecule but trully if the molecule already have applied to it such a strong force it will already break apart..

water has a dielectric constant of 81 and this is because it is a polar molecule... is a polar solvent one of the best solvents available ... salt dissolves into water because water provide a way to it to break into split ions... this ions equidistantly distribute over the volume... a greater dielectric constant mean a better conduction of electric fields or that for the same charge the electric field between two point charges is 81 times smaller than vaccum

the same thing would happen if we were able to split the protons from electrons inside water... as water will reduce the electric field between them...
 

Meyer talk about increasing the oxygen negative charge and hydrogen positive charge... and that this makes the oxygen to repel the hydrogen covalent electrons switching the force that attract the atoms together.. .

he than say that the free floating atoms must regain its lost electrons to exit from the water bath as neutral molecules.. or so..

he also says that he apply the electric field 90 degrees before the current........ and this mean that it is restricted by a coil...

meyer say in the patent of the sphere capacitor that the greater the current thru water the greater will be the force too.. and that the ripling also cause a dynamic force..

by dynamic i think he mean electrodynamic when we get a changing electric field we get also a changing magnetic field.... 


Meyer talk abou slowing down the orbital spin of the electrons around their atoms to make it more eliptical

the teory will tell you what you need to do to accomplish the task.

http://dev.physicslab.org/Document.aspx?doctype=3&filename=Electrostatics_ElectricFieldsVoltage.xml

please check this link and click on the answers for the exercises questions...

well i didnt seem to have read its only a pwm.. in this patent he makes clear that the negative outside shell and positive is the inner electrode... and in the case of the sphere the inner electrode has a much smaller radius...

i dont know the measures...

but if the distance is bigger than the radius the electric field there is much smaller than near the electrode.. this is said to be a electric field gradient...

in a capacitor there should be no diference in charge density at the plates but in this case as there is a big diference in radius (from the drawing) than the outer shell does not get as much as charge as the inner electrode... as the geomtry itself blocks the electric field before it reach the other electrode...

water is a good conductor of electric fields by its dielectric proprieties...although the reach of the electric field depends on the size of the field souce...


an electric field is defined in the real world (non electrostatic) by a current density and a ohmic media

such that for it to exist actually there must be some current flowing if its not in absolute vaccum ...

why not adding a full wave bridge rectifier at the end of the coils?

i mean if the amps are restricted on the coils maintaining a open circuit.. why not to use the right portion that we want? 

meyer talks in this patent about hiting the frequency of the cavity and that at this frequency the force is maximized... he than say that amp flows are equivalent to force withing the molecules...

when you get a such configuration the is a diference in space charge density i gues...

he says somehow that the contaminants reduce the eficiency.

bipolar transistors work with current in the base instead of voltage...without current the transistor open... mosfets and igbts are electrostatic devices the gate dont consume current...

planar is related to the phisical design of the semiconductor,,,

here in attachment is one example of it... however instead of capacitors i use coils... the capacitors can be selected thru a switch or a resistor... but in my case coils work better

the capacitors are theoreticaly better at lower frequency... but will unavoidably become part of the resonant circuit,,,

again the 5v impeed anyhigh voltage to influx to the opamp...

you posted a 741 which is very slow for the task...

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3096.0;attach=14677)

Bravo!

exactly that, the point is that one of the diode is constantly reversed biased by the 100kohm and 5v and ground.. this makes the opamp stay shut on low signal....