Dankie

Quote from: Alan on March 22, 2009, 20:11:16 pm

so, can we conclude the force vectors net zero at the center / 0V, acting on the molecules ?

when the +/- e fields overlap, if that is possible at all, won't that create a net 0 e field vector?

not exactly, there is voltage gradient across the gap, the direction is constant, but the magnitude just happens to switch from positive to negative

voltage means "difference of electrical potential"

so 20+ and 20- volts is the same as 40 volts, (the total difference of electrical potential is 40 volts) but since we "know" that the 20- volts is caused by extra electrons and the 20+ volts is caused by missing electrons then we can understand the distinction

and this is an important distinction because it relates directly to the force on the water molecule

20+ ----- 10+ -----    0    ----- -10 ----- -20
40+ ----- 30+ -----  20+ ----- 10+ ----- 0

Once again , read the question I asked 2curious4WFC and read his answer .

Quote

two elephants pushing strongly head-on against each other may produce a "two-elephant" system of opposing forces (vectors), where the system is stationary. The system is thus a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero. The same would be true for two fleas pushing against each other and not moving as a system; the system would be a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero.

And here's where the mathematics betrays us, if accepted unQuestioningly. In vector analysis, all vector zeros are identical. Here we are saying that the translatory motions of the flea system and the elephant system are the same. That's true, but there's a whale of a lot of difference in the two systems that must be accounted for physically! If you don't believe that, put yourself in between the two pushing elephants, and see if that's the same as being between the two pushing fleas! You'll certainly notice a lot more stress on you from the elephants than from the fleas.

http://www.cheniere.org/misc/interview1991.htm

Good analogy

Dankie, there is only one current flow, and it is a vector quantity which means it has a direction and a magnitude.

it's direction is from + to -, (where electrons flow opposite to current by definition), and it's magnitude is an "ideal" zero.

Imagine you have a copper rod, and you take all the electrons from one end and put them in the other end, you will have + at one end, and an equal - at the other end. now say you don't let them move, you have an equal and opposite voltage between the ends of the copper rod.

I just want you to understand the basics.

Reading Hdemartin's words again , he means 0 voltage , 0 current flow whatsoever .

I am indeed interpreting this correctly .

2curious , hdemartin ,  have all come to the same conclusion as me , these are smart people .

This is what Aquapulser has to say about this .

http://www.aquapulser.com/research.html

Stan's VIC unit that incorporated the bifilar chokes was for use not with his tubular cell set up but with his water fuel injector. The output of this unit is single phase and there are no harmonics involved, however it must also be said that Stan instead uses laser light and so there is definitely some sort of phase conjugation going on with both the alternator cell set up and the VIC water fuel injector which is a conjugated laser cavity. Scalar effects are produced byphase conjugating a wave by 180 degrees to cancel out the energy, yet it produces a "stress wave" that can have physical effects. This is very similar to Meyer's mirored pulses that one gets with the rectified output of the Alternator.  Click here to learn more about phase conjugation.

protons and electrons are items of opposite characteristics but they are drawn to that opposition. they are drawn in such a manner they fall towards each other.  like charges repel each other in a forcing manner.

 the charges of the atoms reaction to these fields are of exact OPPOSITE they want to fall in opposite directions cause in that supperimpossing state of space there gravitational forces  oppose.. the dynamic pulse is the shizznet. because your not relying on just the positve pulse which only pulls on the electron without the neg pushing force helping..   the negative pulse helps push the electrons the way they are being pulled while pulling on the protons(nucleus).  start to think on what defines are up and down in our reality for gravity and how it can be altered. potential placement is everything

Hmm I'm lost .

If Donald is right can somebody plz explain to me what Hdemartin means .

There is either 0 volts across the cell or there is double voltage , what opposite is the good one .

yes, like i said the zero volts is exactly down the center of that diagram of the parallel plates, this means you have positive voltage on one side that pulls on the negative oxygen, and one side that is negative that pulls on the positive hydrogen.

if you had +20 and 0 volts on the plates then there would be an unequal stress on the water molecule, because you have all positive voltage between the plates, only the negative oxygen would be pulled on, and the positive hydrogen would not be pulled on, but instead repelled from everywhere inside the plates.

i don't think you understand yourself what you are trying to say.

Right, you got it. Two equal AND opposite voltages (or minor currents if you will) with respect to
a virtual ground, as per SM quote



It is opposing in the sense of 2 opposing current = no current . And that creates a State region in state space .

If you continue arguing with me those basic facts I will begin to think you are from the MIB lol . I know it doesnt make sense but its like that .

Its exactly like our genius unkown god friend 2curious4WFC says it is , this is a pm from him , it dates a few months . Most people remember this , I understand your confusion .



2curious is an RF engineer @ waterfuelcell.org .


Here is a pm from 2curious , most of you probably read this but I want you guys to read it again ?

Theres a double resonance here ... Just Look @ 2curious's sig



don't get me wrong, but can you please cut down on the PM a little bit as I have no time left for other things.
Thanks.

TWO, resonances, yes. An electrical one, used to achieve high voltage with little effort.

And an acoustical one (or mechanical if you will), eg. oscillation of particles.(the nucleus and electrons of the atoms)

Yes, it does makes things more complex, that's why many seem to have trouble. This SM
WFC is not a joke, it is quite cutting edge. Too much for most.



 my question to him : I'm not really sure what Stan means anymore by *negative voltages* , could this possibly be 2 opposite currents colliding inside the cell , or does this just mean more potential difference like a house +120 and -120 = 240 volt difference Huh Maybe this circuit have bipolar currents of same time phase and equal intensity , Plz have a look at this quote ....


Right, you got it. Two equal AND opposite voltages (or minor currents if you will) with respect to
a virtual ground, as per SM quote.

Yes, they arrive at the same time in the cell. So particles (or molecules if you will are been stressed
equally from each electrode).





So your example is not quite right !!! Correct it would be: +120V + -120V = 0V

So, look at figure 10-5. See it now ? See how he shows a mirror image of the positive waveform vs. the negative waveform and in the center line exactly zero ?

ok, if it is repulsion, then you are not using that waveform i just posted, those are equal and opposite voltages, which add together, increasing stress pulling on the water molecule.

if you want a pure repulsion waveform then both plates would have to get the same positive pulses, or same negative pulses.

Its the same opposite that David Serada interviewed the guy who had the thing that fell slower than normal gravity , that kind of opposite .

Yes , repulsion

Intense repulsive force , pulsed .

can you explain exactly what you are trying to "cancel"?

Its very simple , exactly the same waveform , vols/amps , on both sides of the water capacitor. Everything is equals but its in opposing directions  . No current flow .

i assume you are talking about this diagram, which you sent me before, where you have pulses of equal and opposite voltage, if you put this across the plates you will have double the voltage.

and if you think it is a good idea to cancel out the electromagnetic field in the chokes then you have the wrong idea again, the magnetic field of the chokes is to restrict electron flow, what you really want to do is magnify the electromagnetic field as much as possible

if you read tesla's patent on bifilar coils then you will see there are several different ways to wire a bifilar, and if you do it backwards then yes, you will cancel out the electromagnetic field completely, and allow electrons to flow without electromagnetic restriction, which doesn't make any sense if you go to all the effort of using resistive wire to help impede the electron flow and then eliminate your fabulous electromagnetic field

you must wire them bifilar to magnify the electromagnetic field, not eliminate it, otherwise it's not a CHOKE

Lets say you just split the signal from the secondary , each choke has its source , both cancel out at the same time .

Never mind the bifilar .

you know what, I've been thinking about this, and I think you are misunderstanding how it it works, even tho it may work as explained, i think you have the wrong idea in your head.

(http://www.stanford.edu/class/me220/data/lectures/lect08/fig4_2.gif)

here is a diagram of some parallel plates with an electric field in between them, q+ and q-, and as you see there is a gradient for the voltage perpendicular to the arrows, while the field lines are in the direction of the arrows, and only in one single line straight down the center is there "zero" volts, and everywhere else there is a + or - voltage.

so 20,000+ volts, and 20,000- volts will not cancle out for zero volts, that just isnt how it works, there is a voltage gradient and only at the center between the plates will you have zero volts.

picture this, you have a rock 20 feet above the ground, and you drop it, when it hits the ground, you are at zero
now picture you dig a hole 20 feet down, and you have the same rock 20 feet above the ground, and drop it, it will fall 20 feet to ground level, and then 20 feet down the hole, (-20 feet), but the rock fell a total of 40 feet

so 20+ volts PLUS 20- volts is 40 volts, not zero volts. the voltage does not cancel, it adds.

there is only one spot on the voltage gradient where you have zero volts, and that would be the same as in my explanation, of the ground level.

If you want to talk about electrical stress, then sure, the oxygen is being pulled one way, and the hydrogen the other way, but the voltage does not cancel.

There is 0 current flow in the circuit when you connect 2  equal batteries + and + .

There is added current flow when you connect them + -

A perfectly done bifilar will induce a field on itself and cancel itself .

dankie,
can you give me a brief deffinition in your own words  describing these scalar waves? i havent read a whole lot on them and i  feel like you can probly point out key points like what is forming a scalar wave and what nots. paint the canvas for me buddy,


thanks,
outlawstc

Its not scalar waves , its opposing currents , just like two batteries in opposition , normally they cancel out . Now take this with 20,000 volts pressure , both in opposition .

The energy is cancelled out , its pointless to do this normally . But this has physical effects on the water and I believe that the tubes repel  eachother vry very fast .

Quote from: Alan on March 21, 2009, 14:55:26 pm

[I have read many times that you tried opposite HV with insulated electrodes.
If you still have this setup, you could try to "extract" electrons or  charge or whatever from between the isolation, maybe a lamp will do, and see what happens.

Alan,

I no longer have that setup toguether. When I tested, I used 2 HV tv coils as my HV source, so I know I was testing with about 50KV.  when I applied the 50KV to 100% insulated plates, I could see the water move up the plates... similar to what you see in the water bridge video on youtube.

I then added non insulated electrodes and applied several pulsing voltages and freq, to see if water would break easier. didn't observe any thing.
I also used some Red Lazers, LEDs... no luck.

But this does not say that it will not work.... just that I could not make it work, maybe I needed to do something else. 

You mean you had a 50kv voltage *difference* across the water and it did nothing .

We would lose less time if we would just all agree that the opposing wave is acting upon the water molecule . When everybody stops ignoring this I will be happy , from then on we can work by elimination .

I hate this negativism , lets not start turning in circles again .

Ok Dankie, Ok.

You doing a great Job inspiring.

thx bro , I appreciate .

Great.

I hope you can show us a video soon.

I am the inspirator , somebody will get inspired by this new knowledge , somebody here most likely .

When I am right , I know I am right , there can be no doubting me .

May be right ?

I am right , I am sure of this .

It might not be exactly as I say it is but its along those lines , this opposing wave is doing something .

That text is nothing , nothing but contradiction...

Stan Meyers uncovered ALOT of stuff in ten years , he discovered the secret to the creation of the universe in 10 years trust me .

That patent is nothing .

Thats because you are just not innovating Jolt , This is a phycal process on the water molecule , not a chemical one , remember that . The molecule is moving in a certain way and being affected by certain forces , *voltage* is the tool Stan used , let voltage do work .

Theres this opposing wave that can be replicated by anyone and has been proven to have exactly the same waveform ,  in the best condition this always results on 0 voltage across the cell , this does something to the water  . But that alone wont produce gas , we know this ...

So now we must work by elimination ., there is a sequence here where the molecule is weakened at some point in time and thats when we *pull* with our real voltage . You have to understand this and stop thinkin *dielectric breakdown by voltage* ... You have to stop banging your head against the wall , everytime you get hurt and there is blood on the floor , you must find a new way to break the wall .

I made a montage of what I think the Stephen meyers waveform represents , not sure if this is good .

Quote from: kinesisfilms on March 24, 2009, 23:28:47 pm

Quote from: haithar on March 24, 2009, 23:01:35 pm

i'll be glad if anyone informs me if he has a working zero-point energy device, as long as that is not the case i'm out.

actually he does.

listen to the tom talks tesla interview from 9:39 on.....he names people that he works with in his group and what they have invented.

your judging a person you don't know a thing about.

im not sure what's more flawed...his quantum equation or your assumptions.

Kinesisfilms,

I found that document of Bearden very interesting to read. However. There is not much of body in it that proves something.
I know the record of Mr Bearden and he deserves lots of respect. But if a person like Bearden is publishing such a doc, then i think its very thin.
Then please show testresults. A real sciencetist proves statements with decent testresults. Mr. Bearden was such a scientist. Not sure if he has lost it somehow. Any professor at my old university will laugh on such a paper. Even my daughter must publish here testresults as prove of here statements in scienceclass.

br
Steve

Seriously , when was the last time we saw clear black on white scientific results of some OU device . Such accomplishements are never out in the open for you to see , this stuff is always very obscur . They are usually described and patented by the way they operate , results are NEVER published ... What are you expecting seriously ? Him to show you his machine , Here's my OU device , pulls energy from the vacuum , 1 watt in , 10 watts out .... BINGO ... Its never like that ...The COP factors you hear from of certain devices are mostly always coming from these sites like peswiki , rumored to have been ...

I believe Stanley Meyers patents are simply a diversion , he presented this technology as if it relied on resonance and coventionnal understanding . But it relied in fact on very *obscur* science that is still not accepted by the scientific community , notice that non of his *state-space* stuff was never patented ... Conventionnal knowledge on all the patents ... Everything was made to appear to be , to mimic ...

Anything that has to do with *scalar waves* would be a BIG NO NO for the patent office , automatic refusal .


Also , we have a very BIG issue , an issue that simply cant be resolve . The water cannot hold a charge under any condition , it cant . And we know it wasnt done with a special coating .


But what if the charge is not coming from our physical dimension ( this is already accepted science )  .

My hypothesis takes this into account and connects the dots perfectly , no anomaly anywhere , connected heavily to other proven technology , universe follows this science , dna and cells follows this science .

I dont care about none of your past experiments , IN FACT , you never even posted any values for us to try to ponder on your system , you ACTED LIKE ...