How to build the vic tried and tested
Started by unknown · · 113 posts · last reply 6 September 2011
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#51 · date not recorded
Tony,
danka, wanted to be sure
I'll try to find some M27 material to work with. Thanks for the tip from meyer's writings. I've got some 28ga 1000' rolls to play with now.
regards, kb -
#52 · date not recorded
@Andy, yea it looks to be parallel resonance between the L1 & L2 chokes.
@Tony
@Kickbackemf, yea the shots are from the B+ and B- outputs to the plates/tubes. The VIC is wire up like Stan shows in his diagrams for the 5 coil VIC Transformer. I'm using a 2000 permeability ferrite core with 30ga. copper wire. Have you tried M27 laminates? Stan makes reference in his writings that it can be used for the 5 coil VIC Transformer.
Initial Permeability ( ui ) of 2000 is a high value and should be better for magnetic fields. Mine is 40. What is your core Saturation Flux Density ( B s ). Mine is 2300 Gauss. Residual Flux Density ( B r ) is 800 Gauss.
I'm using ferrite bars shape and glue them together so total specs are changed.
I also had same shape B+, B- signals, but not above/below +550Vmax and -560Vmin on a regular capacitor.
@kb
I tested laminated core and it didn't work, gave low voltage. Core is saturated too fast. Should go for ferrite core.
@outlawstc
Thanks for the video.
I'm curious, will you give detail specs of that used core material?
Br,
Webmug -
#53 · date not recorded
@webmug, I'm not sure of all the specs, I'll have to get that info for ya. -
#54 · date not recorded
@tony
it is impossible to give the wfc full voltage with no measurable <10uA current with the circuit u describe.
to form a magnetic field in L1 current must flow into the wfc then threw L2 back into secondary. no resonance or fancy windings/magnetic fields or techno talk can hide this. current will flow into the wfc and the cell becomes useless whatever you do. today i went out and counted the number of meyer water powered cars available, it was none.
i am sorry to bring the bad news after 4 years of trying to get it to work but copper wire is no good, i have explained why,i have explain what needs to be done to get meyers vic working, i have given you the science.
can we get back on track is everyone agreed the secondary and choke coils must be iron wire? -
#55 ·
Spintronics,
1000 words...
the camera flash whited out the thin bubbles but they are there
used fine iron filings with epoxy core, 1000' 28ga secondary and chokes, unknown scrap primary, all copper
my iron wire will show up someday and I'll give that a try...
Tony, I can't seem to find the way to get the inverted phases on b+ and b- on my scope
kb
attachment_9399 PDR_1154.JPG
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#56 ·
@kb
if current runs through your cell it will not work, u will get hydrolisis
@andy
the resonance refered to is explained here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36927148/WFCexpl
the charge choke has to work in the frequency range of your cell for high gas yield , thats my understanding. it will still produce gas out of resonance. resonance has nothing to do with current restriction.
can u give me a idea of your setup. -
#57 ·
spintronic,
yep, well understood, notice my 0-1 ampmeter on the positive lead, it rests below zero, the one on the right side is the input amps from the variace about .5 at about 50 volts... the primary wire small size keeps the input amps low, I can run it up to over 100 volts and it still remains below zero, my small irfbc40 mosfet can't take it for very long though... I'm in the market for a tougher mosfet, I like irfbc40 because they are super fast, 11ns rise time if I remember and cheap...
any mosfet suggestions?
kb
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#58 ·
@kb
very interesting, what you have done is wire 3 transformers coils in series with a almost short circuit output (wfc), any idea how it works? for the ammeter to go less than zero its either not calibrated, wired reverse terminals or your current is running in the wrong direction. I would stick a beefy trany in with good overall figures for now, plenty of surplus equipment knocking about with suitable components. -
#59 ·
As i have said the primary magnetic field aligns surounding coils electrons so they form magnets that attract to each other (electron clustering)
We can see here how external fields affect electron spin.
When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys136d/modules/m7/material.htm
this covers permanent magnets but still has relevant information
"Instead, every electron is a tiny magnet due to its inherent magnetism (what we call electron spin).
Furthermore, the alignment of the electron spins makes a hunk of iron (magnetite) into a magnetic lodestone.
All atoms have electrons with electron spin and magnetic fields due to their orbits about the nucleus. But not all material is magnetic like the lodestone (ferromagnetic). If the electron spins of an atom's electrons are aligned oppositely, their magnetic fields cancel. That's what happens with tissue paper, flesh, or other non-ferromagnetic substances.
Each iron atom, on the other hand, has four electrons whose spin magnetism doesn't cancel. They line up. Aligned magnetic fields make matter magnetic.
Iron is a peculiar, remarkable substance. Its aligned-field electrons spontaneously couple and form small long-lasting domains. The spins inside these microscopic domains are almost perfectly aligned. Most domains, though, aren't aligned. In common un-magnetized iron, many domains are randomly oriented"
source http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2005-04-01-wonderquest_x.htm
Some materials are unsuitable like copper here it explains why
Since all matter is made up of atoms and all atoms have electrons that are in motion, do all atoms have magnetic fields?
The answer to this question is yes and no. All the electrons do produce a magnetic field as they spin and orbit the nucleus; however, in some atoms, two electrons spinning and orbiting in opposite directions pair up and the net magnetic moment of the atom is zero. Remember that the direction of spin and orbit of the electron determines the direction of the magnetic field. Electron pairing occurs commonly in the atoms of most materials. In the experiment you observed a helium atom showing two electrons spinning and orbiting around the protons and neutrons of the nucleus. The two electrons are paired, meaning that they spin and orbit in opposite directions. Since the magnetic fields produced by the motion of the electrons are in opposite directions, they add up to zero. The overall magnetic field strength of atoms with all paired electrons is zero.
source http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Magnetism/electronpairing.htm
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#60 ·
but to form a magnetic field u have to have some current flow....without some current u have NO MAGNETIC FIELD! -
#61 ·
good job we have current going through the primary then,tony -
#62 ·
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#63 · date not recorded
Nice video
seems like there should still be an oscilliating signal on the week force between the pulling.... maybe not. like the vid
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#64 · date not recorded
T & S & W
I was able to get up way over 2kv with a new core material. My iron filing epoxy cores limited me to 1500v at 50v in at .5a in. I've had wires wrong before once and seen the amp meter go backwards below zero, LOL.
I took an old 110/220 step up tranny and tore the wires (look like aluminum) apart and soaked it in alcohol to loosen the shellack between the EI laminate strips. They came apart nicely. I cut out the wide center post strips and made a nice rectangular core much like meyers. I reschellacked the strips, assembled it inside the four coils and am testing now.
Sure wish I had a clue what "tuning into the dielectric of water" means.
The iron wire came. I was almost 85% done with a tight close perfect wind and it slipped in my hand and unwound like a spring. This is not as easy as winding copper that's for certain. Finger nails with grooves in them still hurt today.
kb -
#65 · date not recorded
@tony
you claim you have a working vic, is that meyers vic or your own design? what output are u getting from your wfc and what size engine can you run?
@kb
the dielectric tuned into is explained in this doc
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36927148/WFCexpl
meyer has said so many times his vic stops the influx of current, the video shows a phase shift, in order to get a phase shift current must lag behind voltage. there you go current is flowing in your circuit, but i am just repeating myself again.
if anyone wants to build the copper vic go ahead and knock yourself out but please post on one of the thousands of threads dedicated to it. I have had to many posts saying the copper vic is correct and not replying to any of my questions or points.
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#66 ·
spin,
thanks much for the reference, much obliged.
kb -
#67 ·
spin, I've read that before from you but I need to read it about six more times...
do you believe that the iron wire chokes require perfect side by side wire wrapping or will a small bit of jumble be ok? I guess I'll find out.
I know, perhaps silly question but I'll need to build an apparatus to wind them as perfect as can be from what I'm experiencing by doing it from hand.
I have enough laminate strips left to build another vic with the iron wire. Have you completed yours?
kb -
#68 ·
secondary and chokes are wound as the vic matrix patent says (this i believe is the design for injectors) the reason i use this design is the primary can be removed without unwinding any other coils,secondary and chokes are not perfect but still work so not a critical winding. primary has to create a perfect magnetic field.
When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys136d/modules/m7/material.htm
if you align the spin orbit so each magnetic moment faces north to south they will attract to each other causeing electron clustering, thats why the primary magnetic field must give a perfect uniform field. we have physics to explain what is happening. reading and understanding now can save time later.
in doc wfcexplain it says the freedom of movement of hydroxyl ions in water gives the resonant frequency your vic needs to tune into. one of the choke coils needs to operate around this frequency range. so i guess a formula involving tubes and there size (capacitance) plus centre frequency used should give you the ideal choke value to wind. this is the resonance meyer talks about and it gives you the high gas yield.
throw a bit of physics and chemistry in and meyer nonsense goes away, do u not agree?
i have wound a mini vic, it worked zero current out and split water with no gunk forming. the primary winding is a problem i need a easy way to wind it. its slowing me up.
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#69 ·
Tonywoodside,
Thank you for the video. I have a few questions though...
What causes the amplitude to modulate high and low?
How does the ac make it to the cap when the circuit
has a diode in it?
The reason why I am wondering is because I have
built the circuit in multisim. I get ac across the cokes
and a step charging dc voltage across the water capacitor.
Seems to me the multisim version is working as it should, however
I must point out that multisim cannot replicate it exactly. -
#70 ·
hi hms776
your post is best put on tonys thread it is a little off topic here and muddles things, sorry to be a pain -
#71 ·
@Spintronic, please do not continue on bashing Tony, He is a very knowledgeable person that has done a lot to move the WF tech forward. You state you have build a vic and produced gas at zero amps. Why not show a video of your achievements and some proof you are right? I will (and i am sure a lot of others) make a deep bow for you if you're right ....
Regards,
Sharky -
#72 ·
there is little conversation between us, he does not reply to my questions or points, i have not been been rude or obnoxious its just he is haveing a one way conversation. infact to stay on topic for this thread overall is a struggle. is it to much to ask to stay on topic? i post a point or question if u are interested we discuss, you can do the same and we can have a conversation. the information i have posted is new i have yet to piece together pics and documents and a better understanding of the science, anyone who thinks they can help then please do. -
#73 ·
I will go over briefly what i have been saying on this thread.
By changeing the wire from copper to iron on meyers vic we get a very different effect.
Meyers vic is at its very basic 3 secondarys wired in series driven by a primary, if you go on a electronics forum and explain this can be made to give a full potential difference out while stopping the influx of current they will give you funny looks. No electronics design engineer will be able to build you such a device from meyers patents.
Could it be meyers vic as described in his patents has a fundemental floor?
What i have said is iron is unique in that each atom has a magnetic moment, that is each atom has a north and south pole. These atoms, or electron spin which gives this magnetism, can be manipulated by a external field. With this magnetic field each atom can be aligned to face each other north to south poles. They will then be attracted to each other giveing the effect know as electron clustering. In this state the influx of electrons into your circuit will be stopped.
Below is links showing us some basic physics involved, take the time to read the actual articles, you can start to pick out relevent information and piece together what i am saying.
We can see here how external fields affect electron spin.
When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys136d/modules/m7/material.htm
this covers permanent magnets but still has relevant information
"Instead, every electron is a tiny magnet due to its inherent magnetism (what we call electron spin).
Furthermore, the alignment of the electron spins makes a hunk of iron (magnetite) into a magnetic lodestone.
All atoms have electrons with electron spin and magnetic fields due to their orbits about the nucleus. But not all material is magnetic like the lodestone (ferromagnetic). If the electron spins of an atom's electrons are aligned oppositely, their magnetic fields cancel. That's what happens with tissue paper, flesh, or other non-ferromagnetic substances.
Each iron atom, on the other hand, has four electrons whose spin magnetism doesn't cancel. They line up. Aligned magnetic fields make matter magnetic.
Iron is a peculiar, remarkable substance. Its aligned-field electrons spontaneously couple and form small long-lasting domains. The spins inside these microscopic domains are almost perfectly aligned. Most domains, though, aren't aligned. In common un-magnetized iron, many domains are randomly oriented"
source http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2005-04-01-wonderquest_x.htm
Some materials are unsuitable like copper here it explains why
Since all matter is made up of atoms and all atoms have electrons that are in motion, do all atoms have magnetic fields?
The answer to this question is yes and no. All the electrons do produce a magnetic field as they spin and orbit the nucleus; however, in some atoms, two electrons spinning and orbiting in opposite directions pair up and the net magnetic moment of the atom is zero. Remember that the direction of spin and orbit of the electron determines the direction of the magnetic field. Electron pairing occurs commonly in the atoms of most materials. In the experiment you observed a helium atom showing two electrons spinning and orbiting around the protons and neutrons of the nucleus. The two electrons are paired, meaning that they spin and orbit in opposite directions. Since the magnetic fields produced by the motion of the electrons are in opposite directions, they add up to zero. The overall magnetic field strength of atoms with all paired electrons is zero.
source http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Magnetism/electronpairing.htm
any points to be made on this post?
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#74 ·
This is pretty much the same thing I was explaining in my post on "My Thoughts on How Meyer Split Water". This also takes place with the water molecule since it acts as a ferromagnetic. As the molecule is exposed to an external magnetic field it will change the Spin-Spin and Proton-Proton of the molecule. The Electrons orbit the nucleus at different rates and spin directions. When its exposed to the polarized magnetic field, the spin-spin will flip and align (Polarize). When the spin-spins align, it will cause the molecule to go from "ground state" to a higher energy state (excitation state). This excitation state is when the ground state electrons will move up to the next orbital shell and cause the electrons to be ejected from their orbital shells up in to the conduction band. Stan even show this happening in his book "The Birth of New Technology" figure 5-3 labeled "Energy Pumping Action" page 125. If the magnetic field is applied for a long period of time you can strip off all the electrons, but if you only apply the field for a short time period the molecule will return to its ground state and release photon energy. This is why Stan says in one of his videos, pulse for XX amount of time and then gate and release hydrogen for 90 seconds with no power applied. during this 90 seconds is when the water molecule is recovering and going back to ground state and releasing the photon energy which is then putting more power into the system and splitting more hydrogen and oxygen. -
#75 ·
Hi Tony
"Energy Pumping Action" page 125 as Stan describes is done via electric field no magnetic field.
andy
Spintronic many thank to You.