spintronic

@andy
 
start your winding at the top of the spool and wind a single layer down to the bottom. use iron wire, make it a tight winding with no bends or kinks.
 
@kb
 
i would not use copper dude, how does it stop normal "transformer action" from happening?

hi andy
 
keep it single layer if i understand you correctly. no this does not apply to the other coils. there is still more to learn like wire gauge, i think smaller wire size looks like a better option. with feedback being low i think a lot of people have given up a long time ago which is a shame.

@tony
yea spin orbit is being used in gas and liquids, possibly part of the chemical reaction in the injectors. what do you think about aligning electron spin in ferrous metals?
 
do people reading this understand electron spin? i dont know.
 
@andy
What country are you from, just out of interest
 

I will go over briefly what i have been saying on this thread.
By changeing the wire from copper to iron on meyers vic we get a very different effect.
Meyers vic is at its very basic 3 secondarys wired in series driven by a primary, if you go on a electronics forum and explain this can be made to give a full potential difference out while stopping the influx of current they will give you funny looks. No electronics design engineer will be able to build you such a device from meyers patents.
Could it be meyers vic as described in his patents has a fundemental floor?
What i have said is iron is unique in that each atom has a magnetic moment, that is each atom has a north and south pole. These atoms, or electron spin which gives this magnetism, can be manipulated by a external field. With this magnetic field each atom can be aligned to face each other north to south poles. They will then be attracted to each other giveing the effect know as electron clustering. In this state the influx of electrons into your circuit will be stopped.
 
Below is links showing us some basic physics involved, take the time to read the actual articles, you can start to pick out relevent information and piece together what i am saying.
We can see here how external fields affect electron spin.
 
When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys136d/modules/m7/material.htm
this covers permanent magnets but still has relevant information
 
"Instead, every electron is a tiny magnet due to its inherent magnetism (what we call electron spin).
Furthermore, the alignment of the electron spins makes a hunk of iron (magnetite) into a magnetic lodestone.
All atoms have electrons with electron spin and magnetic fields due to their orbits about the nucleus. But not all material is magnetic like the lodestone (ferromagnetic). If the electron spins of an atom's electrons are aligned oppositely, their magnetic fields cancel. That's what happens with tissue paper, flesh, or other non-ferromagnetic substances.
Each iron atom, on the other hand, has four electrons whose spin magnetism doesn't cancel. They line up. Aligned magnetic fields make matter magnetic.
Iron is a peculiar, remarkable substance. Its aligned-field electrons spontaneously couple and form small long-lasting domains. The spins inside these microscopic domains are almost perfectly aligned. Most domains, though, aren't aligned. In common un-magnetized iron, many domains are randomly oriented"
source http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2005-04-01-wonderquest_x.htm
Some materials are unsuitable like copper here it explains why
 
Since all matter is made up of atoms and all atoms have electrons that are in motion, do all atoms have magnetic fields?
The answer to this question is yes and no. All the electrons do produce a magnetic field as they spin and orbit the nucleus; however, in some atoms, two electrons spinning and orbiting in opposite directions pair up and the net magnetic moment of the atom is zero. Remember that the direction of spin and orbit of the electron determines the direction of the magnetic field. Electron pairing occurs commonly in the atoms of most materials. In the experiment you observed a helium atom showing two electrons spinning and orbiting around the protons and neutrons of the nucleus. The two electrons are paired, meaning that they spin and orbit in opposite directions. Since the magnetic fields produced by the motion of the electrons are in opposite directions, they add up to zero. The overall magnetic field strength of atoms with all paired electrons is zero.
source http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Magnetism/electronpairing.htm
any points to be made on this post?

there is little conversation between us, he does not reply to my questions or points, i have not been been rude or obnoxious its just he is haveing a one way conversation. infact to stay on topic for this thread overall is a struggle. is it to much to ask to stay on topic? i post a point or question if u are interested we discuss, you can do the same and we can have a conversation. the information i have posted is new i have yet to piece together pics and documents and a better understanding of the science, anyone who thinks they can help then please do.

hi hms776
 
your post is best put on tonys thread it is a little off topic here and muddles things, sorry to be a pain

secondary and chokes are wound as the vic matrix patent says (this i believe is the design for injectors) the reason i use this design is the primary can be removed without unwinding any other coils,secondary and chokes are not perfect but still work so not a critical winding. primary has to create a perfect magnetic field.
 
When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys136d/modules/m7/material.htm

if you align the spin orbit so each magnetic moment faces north to south they will attract to each other causeing electron clustering, thats why the primary magnetic field must give a perfect uniform field. we have physics to explain what is happening. reading and understanding now can save time later.
 
in doc wfcexplain it says the freedom of movement of hydroxyl ions in water gives the resonant frequency your vic needs to tune into. one of the choke coils needs to operate around this frequency range. so i guess a formula involving tubes and there size (capacitance) plus centre frequency used should give you the ideal choke value to wind. this is the resonance meyer talks about and it gives you the high gas yield.
 
throw a bit of physics and chemistry in and meyer nonsense goes away, do u not agree?
 
 i have wound a mini vic, it worked zero current out and split water with no gunk forming. the primary winding is a problem i need a easy way to wind it. its slowing me up.
 

good job we have current going through the primary then,tony

As i have said the primary magnetic field aligns surounding coils electrons so they form magnets that attract to each other (electron clustering)
 
We can see here how external fields affect electron spin.
 
When a piece of ferromagnetic material is placed into an external magnetic field, two things happen.
The spins in each domain shift so that the magnetic moments of the electrons become more aligned with the direction of the field.
Domains aligned with the field expand and take over regions previously occupied by domains aligned opposite to the field.
source http://electron9.phys.utk.edu/phys136d/modules/m7/material.htm

this covers permanent magnets but still has relevant information
 
"Instead, every electron is a tiny magnet due to its inherent magnetism (what we call electron spin).
Furthermore, the alignment of the electron spins makes a hunk of iron (magnetite) into a magnetic lodestone.
All atoms have electrons with electron spin and magnetic fields due to their orbits about the nucleus. But not all material is magnetic like the lodestone (ferromagnetic). If the electron spins of an atom's electrons are aligned oppositely, their magnetic fields cancel. That's what happens with tissue paper, flesh, or other non-ferromagnetic substances.
Each iron atom, on the other hand, has four electrons whose spin magnetism doesn't cancel. They line up. Aligned magnetic fields make matter magnetic.
Iron is a peculiar, remarkable substance. Its aligned-field electrons spontaneously couple and form small long-lasting domains. The spins inside these microscopic domains are almost perfectly aligned. Most domains, though, aren't aligned. In common un-magnetized iron, many domains are randomly oriented"
source http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2005-04-01-wonderquest_x.htm

Some materials are unsuitable like copper here it explains why
 
Since all matter is made up of atoms and all atoms have electrons that are in motion, do all atoms have magnetic fields?
The answer to this question is yes and no. All the electrons do produce a magnetic field as they spin and orbit the nucleus; however, in some atoms, two electrons spinning and orbiting in opposite directions pair up and the net magnetic moment of the atom is zero. Remember that the direction of spin and orbit of the electron determines the direction of the magnetic field. Electron pairing occurs commonly in the atoms of most materials. In the experiment you observed a helium atom showing two electrons spinning and orbiting around the protons and neutrons of the nucleus. The two electrons are paired, meaning that they spin and orbit in opposite directions. Since the magnetic fields produced by the motion of the electrons are in opposite directions, they add up to zero. The overall magnetic field strength of atoms with all paired electrons is zero.
source http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/HighSchool/Magnetism/electronpairing.htm
 

@kb
 
very interesting, what you have done is wire 3 transformers coils in series with a almost short circuit output (wfc), any idea how it works? for the ammeter to go less than zero its either not calibrated, wired reverse terminals or your current is running in the wrong direction. I would stick a beefy trany in with good overall figures for now, plenty of surplus equipment knocking about with suitable components.

@kb
if current runs through your cell it will not work, u will get hydrolisis
 
@andy
the resonance refered to is explained here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36927148/WFCexpl
the charge choke has to work in the frequency range of your cell for high gas yield , thats my understanding. it will still produce gas out of resonance. resonance has nothing to do with current restriction.
can u give me a idea of your setup.

not given much thought to waveforms out of the vic, working on getting a easy way of winding the primary for larger build. but with no current influx into the circuit current will not be 90 degrees out of phase, it will not be there.
 
There is one fundemental problem you have with the copper wire vic, it is impossible to restrict current and keep full voltage or anywhere near full voltage across the wfc. to make matters worse current flowing, even teny weny amounts stop meyers water splitting process. game over bud. people have tried for so long a time and failed. i have seen the technology i describe work with my own eyes, i have not made a mistake, time will show this to true, unless your one of the MIB`s (men in black) in which case a wfc will be sitting in your front room. get working on that all copper vic or i will be downing those beers otherwise destined for your doorstep.

@h2o_splitter
 
Sounds to me like your starting to pick it up, in ferrous wire the electron spin forms tiny bar magnets. in copper the spin does not form magnets. copper can never work.  Like you say it fits with what meyer was talking about and now we can put some science behind it. I can see your putting the pieces together ,where there was darkness let there be light.
 
keep researching and dont forget to post what you find to help everyone.   
 
think about it if magnets are formed in the secondary coil they can become "stuck" to each other if aligned north to south poles, electron clustering. It will give one end of the coil a north pole the other a south. Now add the inhibit choke that has formed north and south poles being in the same magnetic field with the same electron clustering effect. wire its south pole to the secondary south pole, would this not further reduce any current.
 
The more you think about it the more it makes sense.
 
Once i have spread the good news to enough it will be time to move on to meyers other kit.
A little more feedback is needed...
 

are u useing fancy words for a magnetic core? i shall give u some time to reply, if it makes sense to me all the better. we need to be on the same page

i think we are on different pages.... explain

hi tony
 
ok
 
The source of information is hard work at first, it gets easier.
 
Ferrous and non ferrous metals have very different propertys
 
Spin-polarized currents flow well in magnetic materials, but when they enter non-magnetic materials the electrons begin to lose their spin polarization in a process called spin-flip scattering.
source http://www.spintronics-info.com/technical/cold_copper_causes_spin_diffusion
in Copper wire each atom cannot form a north or south pole so meyers vic will not work. copper wire has not worked for over 4 years now.
 
Spintronics is an advanced form of electronics that harnesses not just the electrical charge of electrons (as in conventional electronics) but also a property called spin that makes electrons act like tiny bar magnets
source  http://leebor2.741.com/spintronic.html
inorder to stop current flow the electrons must form perfectly aligned magnets, they stick together (north to south poles) this is refered to as electron clustering. It is not 100% clear to me the physics but i know this works.
 
the magnetic field from the primary must be perfectly uniform. if not it will leak. even a leaky primary can be shown clearly to restrict current. a correctly wound primary will read zero amps on a multimeter that measure down to 10uA (test done on my vic).
 
Any questions please post, i dont know everything unfortunately. i know this works.
 

no problem andy
 
secondary and choke coils must be iron
 
primary iron or copper, copper still under test
 
hope that helps 
 
 

hi tony
 
i have a customer, but i disagree.., the only flux cutting secondary or chokes is from the primary. remember there is no current flowing in the circuit due to electron clustering, all electrons in the primary magnetic field align forming tiny bar magnets, they will have a magnetic field is this what you are talking about?
 
dude u look scary in that pic 
 
 

@stevo
wise words indeed, you remind me of either a boxing referee or the instructor from karate kid, maybe a bit of both.

there is a number of people looking at this page, but i have no idea if any have looked into what i am saying. The science is there i have not picked it out of the aether, i have given you links to research, how about a little feedback. The primary winding is very important anybody want to go through it?
 
 

@kb
no sense of superiority, no egos, no need for aggression or offensive
no need to delete posts either
I said the wire you are useing is unsuitable and asked several questions about your setup, i got no answer and now you are posting results that the iron vic (8xa circuit) you built does not work. you could not of got the uk wire in 24hr let alone machine and populate them leaveing me confused as to what you are doing. this thread is trying to get a better picture of the science as well as the build which you have shown no interest, its what this thread is about.
I am sorry u have taken deep offence, of course i do not know who you are so my opinion is from your posts only.
lets leave it there