Figuring out the Steam Resonator
Started by unknown · · 128 posts · last reply 3 March 2012
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#1 · date not recorded
I've been trying to figure out the steam resonator used in the buggy.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/Steamres1.png)
From the pic of the card it looks like resonance was used. (Lock in LED, Man Auto scanning switch etc)
However, the Tech Brief never mentions resonance with the steam resonator?
Anyone have a pic of the steam resonator card???
Does anyone here think resonance was or was not used? Why?
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres2.png)
The above picture contains the following:
-Transformer with 3 coils (6 wire ends)
-2 NPN transistors
-2 PNP transistors
-4 High watt resistors
-Bridge rectifier?
-Fuse
So if resonance was used the 3 coils are most likely 1 Primary coil, 1 secondary coil, and 1 pulse pickup coil
If resonance is not used perhaps there are 2 secondary coils. (perhaps to use what Meyer called 'Switchover' since there are 2 steam resonators in the buggy, 1 in the water tank, and 1 in the resonant cavity)
The primary coil appears to be connected to a bridge rectifier also...?
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#2 · date not recorded
That bottom picture with the bridge rectifier is clearly not part of the dune buggy system. All that can be determined is that it was for a system being built around the same time, as it uses the same aluminum heat sink as the VIC coils.
The steam resonator has a reference to "resonance" right in it's name! Resonance is used for amp restriction and particle oscillation between the plates.
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#3 · date not recorded
In the buggy there were 2 steam resonators. 1 in the water tank and 1 in the resonant cavity.
2 of the wires from the coil connect to a set of 2 high watt resistors. Each resistor connects to a NPN and PNP transistor. This seems to suggest that the coil operates on AC.
In an NPN transistor current flows one way while in a PNP transistor current will flow the opposite direction.
NPN transistors are typically places between the load and ground, while PNP transistors are placed between the source and the load.
From the drawings it appears that the plates in the steam resonator are not the load, the high watt resistors are. From the drawing below the plates appear to simply be a conductor?
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres3.png)
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#4 · date not recorded
Donaldwfc, thanks for the input.
I think this was the steam resonator used for the buggy, but I'm not sure....Don had it in his pics....Here it is...
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/steamres4.png)
(Back Left side) -
#5 ·
Yes, I considered this before. It's in the same picture as the VIC system. Ask the question why would there be a AC bridge rectifier in a 12 VDC system? There wouldn't be. So it's something else... Not sure what system it is for.
I am not sure what is going on in that steam resonator diagram with the transistors... it does not indicate the switching signal for the BJTs below the plates. Maybe they are in sync with the other ones? -
#6 ·
Yeah, the bridge rectifier is confusing me the most with that circuit....I'm wondering if it's not a bridge rectifier, but it definately looks like one.
TonyW pointed out before that the circuit is similiar to a H-Bridge circuit used to control the direction of an electric motor.
I think there are many different ways of making the steam resonator work....I'm just wanting to know how this one worked.....
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#7 ·
The diagram you posted has 2 VIC coils to run one SR, yet in the VIC box with 11 units, it only has one 3-23 VIC for the SR. With a different switch over circuit you should be able to use one VIC. Or use two VIC coils and run two SRs at the same time as shown in the TB.
What are you thinking of building? -
#8 ·
Donaldwfc, thanks for contributing.
I think your right on about the steam resonator VIC.
As far as building...Not sure yet but hopefully I'll start building this summer....
I gave up a few years back after I spent over 1,000$ on useless crap....I realized at that time that I was not educated enough to replicate Meyer, now I'm feeling ready!
BTW, still have no idea why there is a bridge rectifier in the circuit? -
#9 ·
Yea, the thing about that item with the bridge is that it's not from the early stuff. He shows a multi tapped transformer in some of the patents as an input before the opto pulsing part of the circuit. It's not from those early patented systems. It used the same aluminum heat sink as the other VIC cards so it was made around the same time. Also it is heavy gage wire, and we see that by this time he was using 29 gage wire and mentioning 36 gauge wire in the newer patents. So why the high current transformer? Anyway I can't figure out what it's for... Maybe new details will come up in the future.
For the SR, we know his first one on the 1992 dune buggy was two flat plates, the later one was two tubes side by side with slots milled into them all along the length. Both appeared to have the same single VIC as the power source. The crossover circuit for them must be in the big VIC box somewhere.
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#10 ·
what is the point to this resonator? what use is it on the car really? -
#11 ·
The steam resonator prevented the water from freezing. Not sure if the pictures I posted were the one used in th buggy?
Go to youtube and watch this video of someone who has replicated it.
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#12 ·
Thank you Hms. We wouldn't want our water to freeze. -
#13 ·
lol -
#14 · date not recorded
HMS-776,
That picture you posted with all the coil packs and white container is the resonace cavity, which has the 11 resonance cells in it.It's not the steam resonator.
Don -
#15 · date not recorded
Yeah I know, but one of the cells inside it was a steam reasonator, and the VIC used for it I thought was the card on the back left of that picture?
Gotta keep the cell water from freezing also.
BTW Don, the pics you gave us of the inside of the res cavity, I think the steam resonator tube is the shiny one, it's the only one that's been cleaned by the steam! Unless that tube was never connected to anything I think it was the steam resonator.
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/rescavity3.png) -
#16 · date not recorded
I think he meant the upper two cards in the pic (left of the WFC).
I also think that they probably really are part of the Steam resonator. But what happened to it? It really looks like it has been slaughtered (all the cable connections cut). So from the pic posted in the beginning of this thread there's not much informations anymore available of how this thing was interconnected.
Far more information one can get from the pic of the Home Heating Unit.
Here's the Steam-Resonator Driving Circuit of it:
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4135/steamresonatordrivingbo.jpg)
I just shortly drew the interesting connections (as the Transistor's pre-driving circuit isn't really interesting).
So it looks like that:
The computer tells with 4 bits the amplitude of the primary voltage. This is done with the help of a LM317 and an additional Transistor.
Additionally the computer tells the Impulses and which side to drive.
The actual driving circuit is made of 2 PNP transistors (for driving the primaries), and 2 NPN transistors which make a connection to ground (with a diode in series).
So from this one can get the information, that neither of the two available schematic drawings of the Steam-Resonator is really what he used here. IMHO the lower transistors in the never schematic are only needed, if you wanna drive two different Steam resonators at the same time. But in the Home Heating Unit he powered all as one big unit (all tubes in parallel).
What's really interesting is the voltage rating of the transistors. They are only made to withstand 100 Volts. Also the Diodes used are only rated for 100 Volts.
Well for the primary driving circuit this is surely no problem. But the part which connects the Tubes to ground is problematic. Sure, if the transistor is on, all the voltage will drop over the resistor, and the transistor will be fine. But here's the problem: The other Transistor (on the other electrode) is not turned on during this time. This means it would have the full cell voltages on the transistor.
So my conclusion is: Either the Resonator only worked with very low voltages (< 100V) or the Electrode(s) were coated with some insulator.
Or any other ideas, which could yield an explanation for this?
Edit:
Another IMHO interesting detail: The Transistors are not mounted on a heat sink. This actually indicates, that besides the fact that this thing drives this huge Steam-Resonator, not much energy is needed.
@ HMS-776:
No the clean Tube you see in the WFC wasn't connected. The Steam resonator wasn't in there. It was in the water tank. -
#17 · date not recorded
I agree, I think the steam resonator did not need high voltages. I think the switching frequency is more important. I do think the high voltage could be used but I don't think it was necessary.
The steam res coil pic posted on the first page has sk3180 transistors which are only 80V transistors.
From the measurements and calculations I've done on that coil it's a got a 1:6 turns ratio. 12V input 72V out.
BTW your right about the home heating unit....Much more information there, thanks for pointing that out.
Edit: I bet the people who bought all of Stan's stuff will be developing the steam resonator units. Hopefully they will get it to market within the next few years. I'm sick of paying 150$ gas bills every month to heat my house! The only problem I see is them getting a patent on it. -
#18 · date not recorded
QuoteThe only problem I see is them getting a patent on it.
Yeah, but that's the good side of it. Stan already patented and described everything. So I don't think anyone can still get any valid patent on it anymore.
BTW: I forgot to answer the question in your first post about whether we think there's a resonance.
I personally think that in this specific usage, the "WFC" does not act like a capacity, as there's only one electrode in usage at any time. Therefore the resonant frequency of the circuit is not dependent on the water properties. And therefore you can work with a fixed one time detected resonance frequency.
But that's just my current guess... -
#19 · date not recorded
Kali_ma_Amar,
I think your 100% correct on that. The cell is not a capacitor.
Perhaps if any kind of resonance was used it was the resonace of the coil, used for current limiting? -
#20 · date not recorded
I think he actually wanted to pulse the electrodes. You could either directly pulse them, which would waste a lot of energy, or you could use a resonant circuit where the unused pulse energy gets recycled.
And as in this Steam-Resonator application the "WFC" does not contribute any relevant feature in the circuit (as L,C or R) it is neglectable in relation to the resonant frequency of the circuit. Therefore the resonant frequency in this application is IMHO only dependent on the coil properties. -
#21 ·
I built a circuit back last year that mimics the Steam Resonator circuit. Here's what the signal looked like at the plates.
(http://www.globalkast.com/images/tonywoodside/steam_resonator_pulse.jpg)
I saw in earlier posts where you guys where talking about the FWB rectifier and was thinking that he was using AC as the input. It looks like he was using the FWB with the pulsed DC, he just used this instead of using basic diodes to send the signal to the primary coil. From what I have researched is that the switching of the signals polarity applied to the plates act just like AC. You can test this by connecting 120v AC to you cell and it will cause the water to heat up very fast. Stan's used pulsed DC to accomplish the same feat. It takes less than 1A to heat water up from room temp. to over 220*F. I've tested and done this, in less than 3 mins the was temp. went from room temp. to 220*F. -
#22 ·
Thanks for the update Tony - could this waveform be generated from a simple square wave generator or something? I believe Meyer increased the voltage before sending it to the resonator plates? -
#23 ·
Yea the simple circuit that used to make the signal above is made by using two input square waves, a gate pulse and the resonant pulse. Stan made the polarity switching take place on the secondary side of the transformer. In my circuit I'm making the polarity switch on the primary side of the transformer, it should give the same results. -
#24 ·
Sure you can heat water just by putting AC on it (this is actually how most cheap air humidifiers work). But the efficiency is just 100%. In this case the water is just used purely as a resistance, and the AC is responsible so that no electrolysis can take place.
But the Steam Resonator IMHO certainly didn't work on that principle, for the energy input was certainly way too small for this huge array to have any considerable heating effect with a low efficiency as 100% ;-)
IMHO, and as Stan described in the technical briefs, the pulses are always one sided, then discharged again, and then pulses are on the other side. I think, and it's also described like that in the briefs, that you could either pulse one side +, then the other side -, or one side +, then the other side +, or - -> -.
As this coil in the first pic only has 3 windings, my guess would be that he used a switch over circuit for the Steam-Resonator in the buggy.
The discharging is IMHO especially very important, when you have different polarities, for otherwise you would get electrolysis (Dr. Stiffler Circuit). If your would use the same polarity for the elctrodes and if the water is more or less isolated, the water would just one time get the charge of the corresponding polarity and couldn't discharge anymore. So also in this case a controlled discharging does make sense (which is IMHO attained with the help of the 2 NPN Transistors).
But that just my current guess. And IMHO as long as noone was able to really replicate the Steam Resonator (and with replication I mean with an OU factor) every idea is as good as the other. So I do definitely not claim that this guess is in any way correct! -
#25 · date not recorded
You will have to figure out the VIC so you are applying amp restricted voltage across the water before you can get the SR working. For that reason it is a post wfc spin off technology, and not really worth it to focus on first...