massive

George Wiseman is hardly mentioned with monatomic hydrogen but hes the guy who brought out the browns gas book . Quite likely what got Les Banki started , no evidence of that just going by the time line 1995.

monatomic was the main focus

the thing with a FBT is that the 2 circuits are isolated from each other , that CANT be achieved by a standard tranformer. once Pri is off , the sec is the V source . when Pri is on , the sec is off and the battery on Pri is the V source

the SITh is reverse of a standard thyriator . when circuit is on, the SITh is already at full current , it needs to be switched off , being thyristor it is capable of fast switching

ferrites come with data sheets , they have saturation info etc .
Les Banki chose 240 khz , the data sheet shows the ETD is good for 200khz , its .5mm gapped . this avoids saturation

heres a home made tester
http://www.dgkelectronics.com/quick-project-inductor-saturation-current-tester/


the japanese article has no circuit given , there is no mention how to hook up the SITh 

how does this effect the oxygen atom, that wants 8 electrons?

there has been no gas analysis of Stans gas out put or any of the big name experimenters. no one has the answer for that alone.

Hi,
personally I prefer the 35% efficiency of a vehicle (pre 85) that runs on reliable technology than any electric .

rockerfeller gave away kerosene lanterns to the chinese , because , they then needed his kerosene

electric vehicles need either replacement batteries or battery exchange or charging station or H2 for electric fuel cells , credit card required for each option . its the same game plan as rockerfeller except the "Lantern" is sold at a large price (good name for electric car)

the auto industry directs us where they , their share holders and wall st want the technology to head . 
Over here like a week or so ago the price of milk took a dive and the milk co , Fonterra, poured the stuff away , its a product and nothing more . we might see it as food and a waste .  cars and the fuel source is just product , they shift it what way they want

In japan old cars are just taxed off the road , the same can be done anywhere .  as for converting millions of cars to H2 gas , the only way to get gas in there is by injection , no one makes carburetters
In hind sight Stan meyers was at the right time to bring the tech in , even if he took major loss by dropping the tech in one country to establish it . investors in other countries would HAVE to buy into it , in order to stitch up their own territory .
I havent heard any more about H2 gas stations or net works , BMW was R&D ing that grid theory .  (werent they mentioned in SM murder theory?)

having an electric world will make people even more locked into the system ,  that and a cashless society .  any one off grid will pretty much be living very minimalist , and to wipe those people out , they can be taxed off the land and forced into the system.
here in NZ theres schools that wont accept kids that havent had injections !!
basically no food , no work , no education , it would be easy to bring in laws to remove kids from off grid families .
remove houses that "arent up to code"

Moon shiners had it right with their cars but that evolved from poverty and the law squashed them . H2 gas into a piston or rotary engine is a great idea and worth the effort of research for the purpose of retro fitting OLD vehicles for the rebelious .
society has a structure and people want that stability .  most people want tomorrows lifestyle and they out number people who want to turn back the clock to when the rivers ran crystal clean

efficiency calculations for motors etc is rubbish anyway , if a fuel is free then how is it possible to calculate .
there was that farmer who ran his farm on H2 and refused to hook up to the electricity company , his farm was 100% effecient simply because he couldnt be compared to any one or any thing , hes setting the standard

me I dont like electric vehicle concept at all unless its self generating
 

wheres the rest of my post gone ?


the future in pinned on electric cars .  points ign and carburetters are history , everything analog is gone , its all heading to drive by wire

1980s and 90s car companies made H2 prototypes but now the only R&D is in H2 fuel cell electric cars

where does that leave H2 gas vehicles    

every now and then the selden patent is mentioned but only briefly .
did a search to get better idea on it

turns out the electric car company bought it the patent ! . so theres the opposition buying into the opposition in order to control the opposition to their technology
oh how things have changed ......not

that electric car company eventually turned into chrysler

http://www.kcstudio.com/selden.html   

^^^^(see Fords ad at the bottom mentioning evil "TRUSTS" 100 years ago , seems to be a hell of alot of trusts these days , damn near everything is in trust now)

the future push is for ELECTRIC VEHICLES , cars now have done away with points ignition , carburetters are obsolete , anything analog is history , its all drive by wire etc

I can only see H2 gas being fringe , along the same lines as moon shine cars and bikes ......which is quite wide spread as part ethanol/petrol

the 80s and 90s were a time when car companies were building H2 proto types . any R&D into hydrogen now is for fuel cell electric cars  ,

so where does that leave H2 gas fuelled vehicles ?


 

Im readng george Wisemans book at the moment , in his hunt to unravel Yull Browns technology he discovered series plates , all of which are neutral .
he removed the transformer so theres no transformer loses because he was after low volts , approx 2 volt per cell .
240 vac / 2 v = 120 cells . he uses a bridge rectifier and ac caps for power supply current limiting.
so as far as electrolysis he has already raised effeciency over traditional technology and his gas out put is monatomic which has more volume .
V x I = W    , by lowering V to essential level only , it is more effecient.

I was thinking last night about OH+ , being easiest bond to break . O = 8p , 8n ,8e  , leaving H+ = 1p !!!!!

so is H+ an authentic chemical  OR purely electrical entity OR purely theoretical ??

sounds simply stuppid but anyhoo ..... if H+ is a single proton and called a hydrogen ion then what are the 8 protons in the nucleus of the Oxygen atom ??

are H+ "ions" the building blocks of the nucleus ??

(so electrons and holes is another way of picturing what is going on)

all the while focus is on SM and his invention, the other inventors must be considered at the same time , after all they achieved H gas out puts also and with out traditional electrolysis

Herman Anderson (king of the ion) , A Puharich , S Horvath .

was the output monatomic or diatomic or both or ionized gas being either ,+ ion or - ion

on that basis HOW did it get to be ionized ? that leads back to the "process" , either electrons were given or taken OR the gas was monatomic , diatomic OR both , that leads back to the "process" also

so is Oxygen , 8H+ , 8n , 8e ?       proton being H+ , sounds stuppid but isnt a proton a proton ?

just a thought...

[/quote]

yes 



I shouldve just put pen to paper instead of searching

*Ignoring neutrons to make it less clutter

POSITIVE plate  < OH- anion is attracted (9p 10e)      = 2 e taken by Postive plate
                           O monatomic released  (8p 8e)
                           H+ cation repelled        (1p)

NEGATIVE plate < H3O+ cation is attracted (11p 10e)     = 1 e  given to H+ from OH-, 1e given to H+from H3O+
                           H+ monatomic released  (1p 1e)
                           H2O formed                   (10p 10e)

this is similar to what george wiseman has with sodium hydroxide but with out sodium Hydroxide....., I couldnt find any break down formula any where of straight water
[/quote]


this is water between 2 plates with electon exchange , NOT a sample of water self ionising , say in a glass

got to raise the question ,
HOW did they reach the theory of self ionization ?
a sample of water with tin foil strip galvanic sensor ?
is it PURELY chalk board theory ?
is it pH levels ?
did  the sample/s they use respond to the earths mag polarity ?


Im skeptical of patent info , Dad Garretts carb is too small to make any amount of useful gas .
I dont beleive at all that archie blue used aluminium plates in his cell , or that Pachecos cell was like the patent description , or that Horvath cell is anything like the patent , or Puharichs cell ,  so when I look at SM patent info , I dont see why he would release accurrate drawings and circuits .
and I dont beleive H Anderson has dangerous radioactive material on board , they called him "the King of the ion"

everyone has got to have a view on what they think is happening between the 2 plates . In the SM video it shows rapid production of gas and he fills it with tap water .
From what we can see there is only 2 plates in each cell

it has to be considered that water has its own natural properties before and during the process
either those natural properties are over ridden by the process or the properties are a part of the process or the properties are amplified to some degree

according to science , water self ionizes , THEY say 2H2O = OH- and H3O+
they are the ones who conjure up these formulas and we stick to them

Im skeptical of science as much as Im skeptical of religion  .  theres too many examples of inventors producing H gas from water that I just see science is road blocking

so I see peoples personal views on sites like this as being more valid and holding more value

besides any process water goes through , water still has the natural property to self ionize itself

2 H20 <> OH-  +  H3O+

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

so either an applied process over rides this natural property OR
self ionization is an integral part of the applied process OR
the process is the natural property Amplified

working with nature instead of against ,  just a thought

even if there was no extracted current , the capacitor/cell has one pos+ plate and 1 neg - plate with excess electrons, so the coulomb charge of x amount of free ectrons from the water would have to equal 1/2 in order to equalize the plates when pulse is off.
but then the neg- plate would have to dump 1/2 its electrons into the water
but then equalization by itself is discharge/short

if it were a case of electrons in exchange for H and O atoms it would be avogardo numbers and be monatomic

I just looked up...
 "dissociation is a process by which a molecule separates into ions ,it may also be called ionization"
"the ability to conduct electricity is based on the ionic make up of a substance"
"the more ions a substance contains the better it will conduct"

at the moment Im looking into sodium hydroxide chem reaction and gonna REMOVE the sodium from equation and consider hydronium in the self ionization theory
they say there is small x amount of deuterium naturally in water , maybe parts of water can be catalyst idk lol

Hi
Ive seen chemical reaction explained with sodium hydroxide where sodium molecule rips H+ from water molecule leaving OH- etc

but what is happening at the + and - plates when there is no electrolyte only water ?

Yull Brown and George Wiseman get monatomic and diatomic gases so theres another reaction there also ... BUT they use electrolyte

If Stan Meyer  was generating gas , was it monatomic or diatomic or both and what was the reaction at the plates ?
If electrons were stripped from the water molecule, then thats high current flow into a conductor , theres only 2 plates .

H2O <> H + OH ?    ..... or  H2 + 2OH ?

there has to be exchange some where , the water molecule has to have a reason to let go a part of itself

1. Input = water
2. process = ANY invention utilised , either electrolysis or NON electrolysis ,HV ,LV , hf , Lf , AC , DC ,chem reaction ....etc
3. out put = gas , either monatomic or diatomic

in order to get from 1 to 3 there is a process .   voltage , current and frequency dont explain it , there has to be a reason for water to turn to a gas , it has to give up its bond as a reaction to an action . If an electron is released then thats current flow

self iniozation is similar example to what Im asking , except theres TWO conductive plates in a cell .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

last night (20-9-2015) I saw usa 60 minutes about lightning in venezuela and global warmng and lightning harnessing .  basically same ol guff you find on any web search but televised .

end of the day science can not say how lightning is triggered  , its 2015 and science is still stuck in the same spot.
now either that is completely untrue and they know exactly what triggers lightning
or

 .....  they simply dont know.   < that allows all theories , past and present to have equal standing

Tesla was called a mad man yet 60 minutes  shows a professor whos harnessing lightning with Franklins kite style tech , modernised using a rocket and wire 

there were colours in some strikes , I would consider neon gas but the atmosphere being as polluted as it is 2015 , I would also consider the amount of pollution as a component from now on .

heres an article mentioning chemical explosion approx 1880s so its been around a while

http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/weather/tstorm.htm


"The nature of thunder, which seems so clear to us, was actually deciphered at a fairly late date. In the 19th century, many held that the lightning bored a hole in the air, and thunder was the air filling that vacuum. Ridiculous, said others: the electricity actually electrolyzed water to hydrogen and oxygen, which then exploded and produced the thunder. Hirn actually came up with the correct answer is 1888, but was not believed for a while. As late as 1903, it was proposed that thunder was a "steam explosion" produced by the discharge. Although the ancients knew well that light travelled more swiftly than sound, the explanations were more along the line of clouds colliding or ejecting gases when compressed. The concept of clouds as solid bodies seems to be held by many today, if unconsciously, but most people have flown through them by now and know what they are like inside"




theres also ball lightning mentioned and a book by Uman ??

wonder why the call it "thunder cloud" and not "lightning cloud" ?       its a bit optimistic  , lightning is supposed to happen before thunder


also a paper on evidence of production of peroxide , which is sampled AFTER the event but still shows that there is actual chemical reaction

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016703799002744

I can only see variable R .
 itd be better to see the video and hear his description as he draws it

Ive got original vhs of SM video  , good condition . had to get vhs player to watch it 

in the back ground behind the black boards , left side corner leaning against the wall is a guitar case .
on top of the shelving , left side , theres another guitar case lying flat .  on the top shelf right side there are 2 guitar cases lying flat and on top of those are 2 smaller cases , either parlor guitar or kid size guitar .
when video starts , SM is sitting , amoungst the books to his left there is a large black book "Guitar".

this is either a private music teachers house or its a school music room .  I know the vhs title is "House meeting" but for the sake of privacy and possibly public property it couldve been titled "House meeting".
some schools over here allow people to use rooms on the weekends


no biggie Im just trying to nail where this was filmed



during SM presentation up to the part where a guy speaks up about there being "33 components of natural water" ....hes talking about isotopes etc

that guy says    ...... "Here in Auckland , I ran a Ford 6 cylinder in the lab ....."

SM - "you can tell hes worked on hydrogen before"

this is just before SM goes to electron extraction circuit .

Morning all,

Steve Ryan set up would have to set the bench mark of the lowest voltage , according to him there is no power supply . what ever material he uses + self ionising water + time for conversion


If dingle used chokes then he would have to be in the HV catagory  ,  so theres % HV inventors

The Billings post was mostly deleted ...... the rest of it is in the next post .

Plants are also earthed , they are also aerial .     Puharich coils , 1 is earthed , 1 is aerial or at least open. 

theres also the possibility he had a pretty good  science understanding , deliberately gave misleading information and had a quest for secrecy

its easier for a smart man to play stupid , than a stupid man to play smart

I do not see SM as being stupid at any point   ,    "KISS" s . meyer

 
my over over all opinion = Yes he split water , yes he ran his VW car on H2 gas
did he hand out how to, instructions ? = No he certainly did not

did Pacheco run a boat On H2 ? = Yes
did he hand out how to instructions ? = No


did Puharich run a bus On H2 ? = Yes
did he hand out how to instructions ? = No


did Horvath run a car On H2 ? = Yes
did he hand out how to instructions ? = No


did Yul Brown run a car on H2 ? = Yes
did he hand out how to instructions ? = No



did Anderson run a car On H2 ? = Yes
did he hand out how to instructions ? = No


did Dad Garrett run a car On H2 ? = Yes
did he hand out how to instructions ? = No

where did my post go

Hello 
Ive been over to open source energy and it looks like Ive been shut out .
a few days ago I had to renew my password ...ok then did that , today I go there and now my log on is rejected so I figure re register
.......that doesnt happen either , also there is no way of contacting the engine room of that forum ....... or is just me?

so .... the only reason I log on is because the forum has hidden threads which in itself is pointless ....... and NOT "OPEN"   .

The last thread I posted on was by Ron some one = IDK! ,  the tech brief thread .
the last post ,  I questioned the dielectric constant of water , the FACT that it has no units <<<<< this seems to really rub people the wrong way

^^^ I can only assume that this has upset  a / the moderator or the owner of the site


so Id just like to say ....
THE DIELECTRIC CONSTANT HAS NO UNITS   
^ this fact will not change for anyone no matter how upset you are capable of getting


The site owners should take some time to try and define what dielectric constant means and what units are used IF ANY

there is supposed to be some electronics whiz on that site , surely they know fundamentals and if they do they surely havent spoken up or are afraid to question Ron or point out the flaws

good day people

Skeptical ?    (I guess thats me) ....... (enter fellow)....

time and again , Horvath ,Puharich and Anderson are swept aside as though they never existed and that their invention was superceded by Stan Meyers    < that is of a competitive way of thinking , out with the old in with the new , delete the old like it never happened 

afaik , Horvath is still alive in australia

when they produced gas , the end result was either mon atomic , diatomic , positive or negative ionized gas , these examples involve the electron in addition or removal.

as for heating water , I have done the same experiment Sebosfato is describing , Id like to think alot people have


Rally sport car racing in the 70s and 80s was open class and alot of the top teams used water injection .......then it was BANNED and afaik , injection has not been allowed in motor sports since



you ARE under attack from your ex , her lawyer and the LAW   .........not me ........ (fellow exits )....