massive

a conductor by definition has free electrons , if water is conductive then by definition it has free electrons .

who is Danforth ?  ever a real person ?   
same goes for Carl Cella , I tried looking through history of heavy metal and no such person or band "Rampage" shows up!!

Ive been reading on O.U.R forum about les banki , gees he had a bad run in with the locals!

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=f751b91c744763cc5f2b22e2b9beac9f&topic=2578.msg49744#msg49744

post #456: muDped
anyways therea a pdf , page 8 , mentioning Photosynthesis , alkaline and acidic prperties of water.


...O.U.R forum is weird!

if youve got a combination of oxygen gas ,hydrogen gas and air  ,and then introduce a spark , (quite a large spark!) , that gas is going to recombine into water FAST

so ..... NO LIGHTNING is splitting the water molecule  so there is no colour  (violet , blue , yellow , red )
electrolysis and lightning dont fit , ionization  and lightning do

Lightning that has no thunder is called heat lightning / wild fire


they say there are no pics/evidence of ball lightning but that is no evidence to say that it does not exist

no one has seen an electron but the acceted electron theory has been hammered home hard !!     no one is "qualified" enough to say it doesnt exist (ball lightning)

Lord Kelvin theory of the vortex comes to mind again with the concept of a ball of electrical energy , yet the vortex was also thrown out , which still doesnt mean the theory is wrong , it just means that is has been by passed in favour of some one elses theory.

I know very little of ball lightning only because I havent applied myself ....

people replicating a HV cell have to have a basis to build upon  , why chose HV when the minimum voltage required is 1.23 VDC ?

the smallest voltage theoretically is the electron volt (eV)

the voltage of a lightning strike is a sum total of all the available electrons ,  1 electron at a time
both air and water content of lower part of a cloud have electrons stripped , both air and water molecules are ionized , the lightning strike is a flow of current AFTER ionization process is over and done . theres no supply of electrons BEFORE ionization

its self evident but the chemical reactions and ozone is more proof , theres ionization right there

lightning strike is natures example of HV and reactions to air , water , nitrogen ,hydrogen and oxygen .
If HV is to be used in a cell ....... WHY ?  to replicate what ?

the desired end result is to generate Hydrogen gas from a self ionizing molecule

lets not forget this is NOT my theory , it is older than the oldest human on the planet


side note..... I was raised on this stuff and has influenced me strongly .

BOB MARLEY LYRICS

"Babylon System"
 
 Babylon system is the vampire, yea!
 Suckin' the children day by day, yeah!
 Me say: de Babylon system is the vampire, falling empire,
 Suckin' the blood of the sufferers, yea-ea-ea-ea-e-ah!
 Building church and university, wo-o-ooh, yeah! -
 Deceiving the people continually, yea-ea!
 Me say them graduatin' thieves and murderers;
 Look out now: they suckin' the blood of the sufferers
 

Does anyone remember Steve Ryan and Bios fuel ?   He was on NZ 60minutes with a motorbike that ran on modified water , using a non electrolysis cell

his site biosmeanslife.com is gone now

His converter had no power supply and relied on time for conversion of tape water to a reformed fuel

just reading Herman Anderson thread about Nickel plating which made me think of the metal itself

nickel atomic #28   , electron shells  2e , 8e , 16e , 2e (OR 1e )   ferromagnetic

also Platinum atomic number #78  , electron shells  2e , 8e , 18e , 32e , 17e , 1e   paramagnetic

platinum is used in catalytic converters , also used in chemotherapy for cancer for bonding to cells

Steve Ryan would not reveal what was in his converter / cell . It had no power supply so it was a natural process that required time .

water being the worlds most powerful solvent .
Adams catalyst PtO2 is used for hydrogenation of vegetable oils

Steves converter was closed so it couldnt be seen if oxygen was released or any process . if oxygen was released then the remaining water would have to be Hydrogen rich , unlike a chemical reaction we are accustomed to with 2 plates .
we are used to seeing 2 separate gasses released when maybe it is possible for 1 gas to escape (oxygen)

Ehrenhaft magnet experiment released H and oxygen only AFTER the magnet was attached , releasing gas 2:1.
before that it was releasing gas because of iron ,water and acid reaction

I mention the above because there was no power applied to steves converter so I can only think of reaction between the water and a metal of some sort that has the ability to extract electrons and I say "extract" because it sounds more feasible than inject electrons.
and IF there was reorganised structure of the water molecules into a fuel Id expect it to be hydrogen rich , and it would be if oxygen was removed!

the fuel he showed did not ignite when the paper cup it was in , was set alight but when compressed it exploded which means its more of a compression ignition fuel than internal combustion fuel. even though the motor bike was not a C.I but I.C engine
 
which reminds of hydrogenation of vegetable oils , "Adams catalyst "

so maybe the cell steve had is like the zinc anodes on boat hulls but relatively quick , water supposed to be the most powerful solvent
 
just a thought ...


I did a search and can only find remnants of info on hydrogen forums . I searched on way back machine , internet archives . theres screens shots so some one was recording it since 2005 or so  . under biosfuel

https://web.archive.org/web/20090305141754/http://biosmeanslife.com/


Allotrope : (eg: O , O2 , O3 , O4 , O5 etc)  different molecular forms of the same element but atomic weight remains the same ,while an Isotope will have different atomic weight.
Steve claimed no power supply and no electrolysis ,so it is a form of, or similar to an Allotrope where steves cell changes the water structure but it remains "WATER"  . possibly water used as an electron source or sink  . Id expect the viscosity to change if the molecules where more tightly bonded / rebonded

just a note .... are we the only people alive?   only joking 

the exploding wire experimenters deal in mega joules range watt = joule/time  (interseting reading on those forums)

I would imagine the strike channel would be dry as a bone but I dont know that in person

I dont know who said it , maybe KEELY .... "sound is the vibration of matter"     Kanzius demonstration is still a mystery , alot of the threads about him went straight to the pistol shrimp and then that died away .
no one can say what Kanzius was doing .  also sooner or later Keely has to be considered or his theories and inventions are false but that also cant be proven

they say the water content of cumulus cloud is .5 grams per cubic metre
therefore 1 million cubic metre cloud = 5 million grams or 5 ton of water (< should be 500,000gm = .5 ton)
but the specific gravity of water is less than oxygen or nitrogen
the cloud is lighter than the surrounding air

thunder cloud supposedly contains 10 gram water per cubic metre

^^^^ all this is only search material

Lord Kelvin / william Thomson did the water dropper experiment in 1867
I cant find who came up with the chemical explosion theory but Im still searching , probably in book form only

hydrogen is supposed to have the fastest explosion rate of anything , worth adding that to the concept also , but then air / oxidiser is also part of the ratio needed for that chemical reaction

we use Hydrogen based fuel in i.c and c.i engines and its the expansion of AIR we utiilise .  again a shock wave

in clothing shops they have those plastic tags on for shop lifting security . not long ago I opened one and it has a single flat coil like that and a capacitor soldered on , so maybe it acts as a tank ciruit frequency when it goes through the door monitor ... and no I wasnt shop lifting but interesting to see inside

Rule #1 : dont step out of line , it will cost you your career

that applies to physics , meteorology , science , reigion , politics , bussiness , police , sport , banking , chemistry , education ........etc etc

corruption is everywhere in order to do everything

isolated water in mid air is ionized the same way air is , they are side by side and a component
oxygen is present in boh water and air . there is no earthing

I am fully aware of the bond in water , this forum is full of examples of how the process in a closed circuit, is stunted and there is high chance that is not going to change any time soon

water droplets have been charged many a time following the water dropper experiment , again ionization.  (the experiment was to demonstrate charges in trying to theorise charges in the atmosphere and therefore lightning)

in the example of lightning , Telluric currents are always neglected or soon forgotten . If there is a positive charge on the ground ,then is a negative charge above and vice versa 

lightning storm emits LF , HF ,gamma ray , X ray , theres everything there to inspire Tesla and any other inventor free of charge ;0)

according to science , Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe , does Hydrogen escape into space ?
....diatomic or monatomic , hydrogen negative ion or hydrogen poistive ion / PROTON ?

raises the question where did the Hydrogen come from in the 1st place ?
are we already IN space or does the whole universe revolve around this little rock ?

the chemical explosion theory is a valid one , lightning is followed by thunder , an oddity which sounds not too dissimilar to a bomb going off but no ones supposed to ask or take a guess at what is actually exploding


science has yet to demonstrate lightning , giant tesla coils and van degraff generators are controlled and how the hell is a scientist or team going to recreate thunder ?   where would they find enough voltage to prove the theory of colapse

rubbing a balloon with a clothe is like going back to the 1800s

its actually rediculous the hold science and religion has

of course there is energy from UV and the sun and everything else in the universe , this planet is intregral part of everything else that exists any where

again if an electron is entering the atmosphere it has a negative charge , that charge is balanced by a positive charge , that can only be a proton
if that electron is accellerated like they suggest then there is collision with other particles on entering , more theory!

when we break water in experiments, it is only ever in a closed circuit . the closed circuit will continue to demonstrate how difficult it is to separate water doing the same old thing year after year .
It is easy to confirm that staement by simply doing the experiment yet again!

thats self torture .

Im sure there are people who  were not aware of the chemical explosion theory and at least they can have a read even though it is only briefly mentioned in half a dozen words .... or less

a single lightning strike being the result of electrons stripped from water molecules , then yes the water has already been split and the byproduct being excess electrons


I would venture as far to say the majority of people on this forum have pulsed electrolysis , and yes I have . 
the same experiment done repetively will get the same results again and again until the experimenter stops doing the same thing again and again!

there is no electrolysis in the storm cloud 

science tells us Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe but then spins around and tells us its unavailable and all the sudden AIR is the source of electrons for lightning

no man knows how many lightning strikes hit per second but what ever it is , the end result is net zero . theres pollution ,water and air in the atmosphere , and that amount of electrical energy generates collosal V and I over time and for science to assume there are no chemical reactions is rediculous!!  with simple HV experiments ozone is created . 
there most definitely are chemical reactions with anything in contact with lightning . theres a peach tree on this property that had a chemical reaction when lightning struck it
a person will go through a chemical reaction if they get struck

the basis of Meyer experimenters is to use HV to generate H2 from water , IF that is at all possible then why cant nature do it in an open circuit?

If lightning is the result of ionizing Air then does water ionize and release electrons ?  this is old theory of chemical explosion is older than stan meyer him self and more than likely the basis of Horvath cell also , and Puharich too

and again there are huge currents running through earth .
IF electrons DO actually enter from outer space then then that negative charge is balanced by what ??   
a positive charge proton , from where ?
according to science a pronton is another word for positive hydrogen ion , wheres that gonna come from ?
how about from the water molecule ?
so now what ?  theres 1 electron and 1 proton , whats that?
a balanced Hydrogen atom ?

no matter what turns up ,science is there to bamboozle everyone , they say knowledge is power but what I have learnt is , power is corrupt!   

the old chemical explosion theory deserves another look into , theres many old theories that have been shelved and not because they are wrong . no doubt the Vatican would have a good store room of suppressed research info

Hi ho people,
there used to be the theory that lightning sparated water molecules into gas and that is ignited by the strike but that theory keeps getting tossed aside yet science cant demonstrate sizeable lightning stikes only large HV discharge

this site st least touches on the subject just by mentioning it.....

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_info/thunder2.html

Quote .....

"Early Theories

Early man probably considered lightning to be the ultimate weapon or a weapon of their gods. The Navajo Native Americans believed the Thunderbird, a mythical bird, flapped its wings and created the sound of thunder and the source of lightning was reflected sunlight from its eyes. It was the Norse God Thor, the Greek God Zeus, and the Roman God Jupiter who wielded the mighty bolt of lightning to keep man in his place. There continues today a phrase about lightning coming from a supernatural or divine power. The phrase goes something like: "Let lightning strike me if I'm ______." The word 'bolt', often used to describe lightning, has no meaning in meteorology and is an inappropriately used term.

Some of the earliest theories about thunder originated during the Greek and Roman Empires and from the Viking (Scandinavian) people. Beliefs about thunder included that it occurred before lightning, it was a burning wind, it was caused by the collision of clouds, the sound was produced by resonance between high and low clouds, and by high clouds descending and colliding onto low clouds. By the mid-19th century, the accepted theory was the vacuum theory, whereby lightning produced a vacuum along its path (channel), and thunder was due to the subsequent motion of air rushing into the vacuum. The second half of the 19th century saw the steam explosion theory, created when water along the lightning channel was heated and exploded by lightning's heat. Another theory was the chemical explosion theory that suggested gaseous materials were created by lightning and then exploded"

^^^ONLY BRIEF BUT GOOD ENOUGH that the bag is open enough that the cat can see the light

 
http://sciexplorer.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/lightning-part-3-lightning-bolt.html

^this site goes into ionization of water molecule which is about 10000 miles ahead of the stupid friction of air theory that was dished out at school.
what it does mention tho is electrons from outer space entering the equation ....... what it doesnt go into is TELLURIC CURRENTS  , which is something that seems to never be mentioned!!!

a capacitor has a positive and a negative plate of equal opposite charge and when there is a short , it discharges back to zero (ideally in theory)  , electrons from space arent generally brought into the equation

Ive spent years watching local lightning storms , closest strikes is about15 metres and about 35 metres . Ive always sided with the chemical explosion theory and wondering how to replicate in a cell .
I have no problem with high current techniques for H2 gas production just not traditional electrolysis

according to science....
frequency of strikes = 100hz approx
60sec x 60min x 24hr = 8,640,000 strikes per day
R resistamce of earth = zero
G reciprocal of R (1/R) = infinite
charge , equal amount of postive and negative charges = net zero
5000 to 200,000 amps
30,000degree C with electron density of 10 ^17 electrons per cm3

there is equal opposite charge beneath our feet to all these lightning strikes
Im big fan of Nathan Stubblefield and similar inventors , many , Tesla being one

science always throws faradays law at electrolysis and H2 cell experimenters and fair enough BUT theres a truck load of current in a lightning strike to perform high speed "electrolysis" / dissociation yet the theory is quickly disposed of.

probably explains why there is so many braches of science , kinda like the mafia has branches 

placing water between 2 conductive plates cant be called electrolysis because the water has pH7 to begin with . 
water charge is neutral , net zero
anions and cations are of equal number
there is no additive , acid or base

anion OH-  (9p , 10e)  and cation H3O+  (11p , 10e)  = self ionization 

only the self ionization formula fits

I cant find any formula or study of break down of water out side of electrolysis , which is a contamination of a simple experiment which thousands of people must have performed in the last 17 years alone , using straight water

Faraday would most certainly have performed his initial first experiment   ,without any additive .

all the argument against H2 as a fuel always falls back on Electrolysis but once the additive is removed , theres no basic experiment out there to say for or against

theres plenty of options on ebay as far as price range , personally I prefer 2nd hand stuff .
I cant stand retail prices , the whole concept of retail marketing is to sell something for more than its worth .
And these days everything being made in china , brand name doesnt mean a thing anymore


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=differential+probe

^^^ thats 2 for 2 electrons which is the same ol electrolysis , but what if the water molecule wasnt allowed to reform

massive do you agree that for every atom species you want to ionize in that way you need to put one electron or take it out of water?

yes 



I shouldve just put pen to paper instead of searching

*Ignoring neutrons to make it less clutter

POSITIVE plate  < OH- anion is attracted (9p 10e)      = 2 e taken by Postive plate
                           O monatomic released  (8p 8e)
                           H+ cation repelled        (1p)

NEGATIVE plate < H3O+ cation is attracted (11p 10e)     = 1 e  given to H+ from OH-, 1e given to H+from H3O+
                           H+ monatomic released  (1p 1e)
                           H2O formed                   (10p 10e)

this is similar to what george wiseman has with sodium hydroxide but with out sodium Hydroxide....., I couldnt find any break down formula any where of straight water

since starting thread I have been looking for forumals ... ... havent been kicking back waiting for answer to fall in my lap
I tried to find dissociation of hydronium .    hydroxide = easy!


http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Acids_and_Bases/Aqueous_Solutions/The_Hydronium_Ion

this site mentions hydronium increase = pH decrease

"Because hydronium- and hydroxide ions can “move without actually moving” and thus without having to plow their way through the solution by shoving aside water molecules as do other ions, solutions which are acidic or alkaline have extraordinarily high electrical conductivities."

kindve rings a bell about radio wave of the Kanzius guy

is it possible SM was dicing with pH from acid to base , electrically and using pH 7 as a non conductive point or zero point
Im talking high freq not slow chemistry level
also what do I know Im just throwing this in there

the article also mentions "holes and electrons" , no different than semi conductor talk

with hydronium I cant see what it would break down to , 11 proton , 10 electron ,therefore + ion , its heading for neg plate .....

found these last night , born 1929 = 86 years old , if hes still alive.....

http://www.stephenhorvath.com.au/
 
http://www.starscientific.com.au/about-star-scientific/

hats off to everyone who has made a series cell because a series cell is not normal
the neutral plate is not considered in electrolysis theory
the transformer is unused
PULSING is used instead of straight DC
monatomic hydrogen is not recognised to exist

"All proven technology" only applies to fringe groups like this .   they are all inovations in the right direction but still not normal in the mainstream

I believe kampen72 will succeed simply because thats what hes made of , nothing has stopped him so far
I dont know him but I do respect the guy 

this is a shot from kampen72 series cell , the flashback part

the series cell itself is a break through , its been around for 40 odd years or so but it seems that in the Hydrogen community it is just another cell construction

Les plate dimension 180mm x 100mm = 18000mm^2   ,multiply that  x 138 = 4,968,000mm^2   surface area of both sides of the plates ....and NONE of them are hooked up to power , they are ALL neutral plates!!!!
this doesnt include the area of the positive and negative plates

Ive got george wisemans "browns gas" book at the moment and his research is very important , it eliminates the transformer so straight away there are zero transformer losses
George Wisemans name deserves to be up there with Yul Brown or when ever monatomic hydrogen is mentioned

This bike was not 100% H2. I tracked down Rocky Haraki but it appears he passed away. (facebook)

The bike is shown at 2:50 >   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/2015-go-green-expo-in-auckland/7ZZM4ONINQDVCLBNW3SYITRUMA/