Voltage does Work!!! And Here is why!!
Started by unknown · · 88 posts · last reply 30 January 2011
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#26 · date not recorded
Who remember the fracture cell patent? Its extremely related with what i'm talking about!!! -
#27 · date not recorded
Than check this!!!http://www.google.com/patents?id=mUvRAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false -
#28 · date not recorded
I think there could be used 4 vics in conjunction with one cell. One to create the positive electric field and extract electron from the bath... Other to create the negative field and extract electron from the bath too... And Other to apply a voltage across the water.... And Other to extract electrons from the gas... The important is that all them to form isolated circuit as no electrons from an arbitrary ground can get into the circuit by its overall positive charge.
I think Delrin material will be the best insulation. Its thickness will depend on the electric field you re going to apply. In my opinion a spark gap must be used not only to protect the insulation but will be the mean for switching to create the electron extraction, in the following way.... When the voltage reach a maximum the spark gap fires and the electrons that were taken of the water become an ark that flashes a amp consuming device or a filament coated with some oxide that lower its work function. This way emission can be attained. This emission element will go inside the gas processor, where the electrons will be deflected by the high voltage source and in the way they will collide with oxygen atoms that are also receiving laser energy of a wavelength between 120 and 1800nm. The result is that the oxygen will become highly ionized by collision and this will liberate even more electrons this as will be trapped in similar way in the electric field zone, will than be used as energy source as for taking it out of there to leave the oxygen highly ionized.
Previously Meyer use to use the freed electrons to ionize the hydrogen negatively (electron entrapment) but in the injector version he only injected water.
When you say you have a voltage, you must think first of one thing, in relation to what!
So If he used the water cause of its dielectric and resistance and one set of electrodes as one side of the capacitor than the electrode and some water will get the charge you want given a respect to the geometric configuration. In the sense that you have two relative capacitances as you have 3 capacitors or even only two if is the case.
So if you charge the water with positive voltage than discharge thru an arc into a heating element you will kind of consume some of the electrons, if you continue this operation the water will get a very high voltage charge divided into the bath every water molecule.
Again If you prefer to add also or a negative field into the water you can also consume electrons by the same action.
Yet Differently, you could instead of creating a positive charge on the water molecules, create a negative charge. This can be done applying negative voltage, here the circuit must be connected to the ground thru a diode so the charge can get in but not get out during pulse off of the transformer.
I think the covalent bound will be weakened with both ways cause in one way you are increasing the negative charge of the oxygen causing repulsion to the covalent electron, and other wise you are increasing the positive charge of the hydrogen atom so it attract the covalent electron up to the point that it annulate the dipole, or the force that bound the molecules together.
In that patent they show what is the bound force in Nt. I need to study more about it to be able to precisely talk about it, but generally is this.
The thing is to cause an imbalance in the bath (all water molecules) so you can cancel the covalent bound.
(same process of the recycling of atomic waste)
As here we have a dipole we don't really care with voltage will be used positive or negative cause both will decrease the bound force as i described.
Stan partially explained this on the first movie in the NZ meeting. I just understood how to create and set up the charge on the water molecules and maintain the charge.
I'm also thinking if theres wont be an energy generating from capacitance change effect that will happen with a certain way of connecting things. I read a patent about this and for me seem exactly what the guy was doing too.
I would really like to know your impressions guys... -
#29 · date not recorded
Whats the difference between water and a piece of acrylic?
Why the acrylic take on a charge if you rub it and it don't lose it? It is because of the intrinsic proprieties of the dielectric. The dielectric took on a charge when you rubbed but as surrounding it there is an insulator (air) it wont conduct to the air so will retain its electric field.
The water is pretty much the same, It need to be in an isolated place so it can take on a charge and this voltage is in relation to the insulation! We couldn't wait that two conductors placed into the water could charge it, cause they both conduct as also water conduct so it would lose a charge if it was not unipolar charge. I mean unipolar cause the thing i'm proposing will charge the water with positive or negative polarity only.
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#30 · date not recorded
Seb,
That is a lot of verbiage. Have you done some experiments to prove your point? -
#31 · date not recorded
The electrostatic filter, are another double vic coil but this with only dc to capture the ions on the water and keep the water deionized...
Doing this the water conducts even less cause there are less free ions or the like cause they keep trapped in the electric fields. I think that if reverse electric field is applied the ions would be released for cleaning purposes.
Ionizing positively the water (taking electrons out of it) is excellent cause than the conduction happens by the holes.
I think that my resonant schematic is pretty much what must be done but including all this story about the gates and electron extraction.
I really think think that know we should keep it simple stupid.
1° Construct a transformer in the following way:
primary 200 turns 24 awg
secondary 600 turns 28 awg
and one choke on the same transformer (fields aiding) 100 turns. 24awg
you need a diode connected between the secondary and the choke high voltage diode.
Use a flyback core.
This is the vic field transformer That will be used between the inner tube and the conductive sheet around the container.
The inner tubes are all connected together.
There will be a capacitance. The positive side must be the inner tubes.
There will be a capacitance between the inner tube to the outer tube and from the inner tube to the outside of the container and from the outer tubes to the outside of the container. The outer tube is on the middle of the way.
On the outside of the container (witch must be very insulated) might be a sheet of copper or aluminum to form the capacitance relative to the inner tube and outer tube.
Between the leads that go to the outside of the container and the inner tube there will be a spark gap! It can have a lamp in series or a piece of something that can get really hot. This will consume the electrons, that means that when the transformer reach more high voltage again more electrons will be pulled out of the water. Other means to extract even more electrons from the bath are to be thought of considering all that i wrote since now.
All this must be without connection to any grounded place. No electrons must be replaced. The result is that the water get charged in the container.
Ok i think that the electron extraction circuit is ready.
Now another transformer like this is constructed and will drive the resonant tank formed by the water capacitor and a resonant coil. Just like i proposed 2 years ago. But now having the water charged and the field force the voltage necessary to spit apart the water molecule will become very very small, than now you just need to supply very low voltage at huge amperage, very easily provided with a resonant tank like i proposed 2 years ago.
The min voltage will be very small millivolts... So you can have high amperage and use no power. The resonant tank is preferably made of copper bars to maintain the inductance voltage small and current high so as the frequency cause will depend on the tube capacitance. Thats why he used all those tubes, to raise the capacitance. !!!
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#32 · date not recorded
I think that meyer created the resonance on the water to avoid this losses on the rectifiers, he wanted it to generate just by colliding the ions highly energetically charged. So a duty cycle to the pll is provided as on the schematics there is the indication and make trains of pulses.
The all circuit will become positively charged.. Could be dangerous.
To do this he probably counted that the inductor would keep on charging while dc was happening and would discharge on the off pulse so the reversal voltage turns the molecules and they become gas.
So when he say the resonant frequency depends on the cavity and the coil he is right .
Good luck to anyone trying this
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#33 · date not recorded
Well done is better than well said. --Benjamin Franklin -
#34 ·
Well done is better than well said. --Benjamin Franklin
Amen to that!!!
I'm about to explode again.
Itzon -
#35 ·
Five seconds.
My setup is almost ready...
I made a variable coil very nice today and finished the iron powder toroidal core vic ...
The time will tell.
I think that everything i'm talking about is interesting and makes a lot of sense so i will keep talking.
You got to realize that the Electrical Polarization Process as intended for Polarizing the water as a hole!!!
Electrical isolated ground x Electron extraction x Electrical Polarization
I repeat than water have a propriety that any dielectric have, it can retain a charge, witch is not a charge induced by a voltage separation but a charge due to net lack of concentration of free electrons...
So the electron extraction circuit intend to charge the water and extract electrons from the bath as to give a net charge to the water.
This is very normal, simple basic school theory.
The thing is that this charge affect the covalent bound of the water molecule. As the dielectric got a charge, it will have its atoms electrical exited energized, so the oxygen become more negative and the hydrogen become more positive. Becoming more negative the oxygen start to repel the covalent bound electron and as hydrogen become more positive its attraction to the electron increase thus by the way bellow mentioned you can weaken the covalent bound of the water molecule.
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#36 ·
As you create a spark gap you consume electrons already so if you sequentially charge the water and discharge it thru a spark gap maybe into a lamp you will kind of consume the electrons allowing the water to acquire an ever increasing charge. And this charge will interact with the atomic forces in the water molecule! -
#37 · date not recorded
Just in case you aren't aware,the electron extraction isn't needed to get high voltage across the water.The extraction process is something that can be done after the gasses have been made.It isn't needed to make the gasses.If you can't get high voltage across the water and producing gasses,you CAN'T extract the electrons,because the electrons are removed from the water as a byproduct of the water splitting process.You need to get step one done first,than we can go onto step two.
Don -
#38 · date not recorded
Meyer talked about two different things. One is the electrical polarization process where he extract electrons from the water bath as for weakening the covalent bounding of the water by giving to it a Net positive charge. And other thing was to extract electrons from the ambient air while ionizing negatively the hydrogen atoms for getting enormous amounts of energy-...
Thus the electrical polarization process means the following, Charge the water positively therefore extracting electrons out of it. For this the electron extraction circuit is useful. Because you can charge water to 100kv if your bath container support this voltage but as long as you leave it at 100kv it will keep there and thus the amount of electrons that came out of water are limited. So stan provided a way to sequentially charge the water and discharge "consuming" the electrons so they could not come back to the water so leaving it net positively charged. Electrical Polarization Process.
Forgot to say a known propriety of dielectrics is that they can retain a charge, this don't mean the charge between two electrodes.
And as the water have a conductivity it becomes part of the electrode, an electrode with high resistance thats where the electrons come from.
I guess that if we charge the water this way we will increase its resistance thus with the complement circuit attached to the electrodes you can do apply high voltage low amps to the water and split a huge amount of water... -
#39 · date not recorded
When you have a capacitor and you want to charge it what you do?
You need to perform work by applying a voltage that will make the electrons from one electrode to go to the other electrode!
This create the electric field between the electrodes.
So when meyer talk about the bath is one thing and when meyer say between the voltage zones is another.
The thing i repeat, Is that water is part of the electrode if the dielectric is the container so is where the electrons will come from.
As meyer explained in the NZ first video when he say how he switch off the covalent bounding.
Hope you understand.
I think that fast freddy understood this and that also why his gas could support high pressure without exploding. Meyer also said that as you make this process the gases are safer than normal in the transporting as there is no electron build up or sparks. -
#40 · date not recorded
The Electrical Polarization Process is just a fancy name for the process of using voltage to pull apart the water molecule.It has nothing to do with extracting electrons from the water.When the water molecule is pulled apart,the oxygen molecule and the electron are pulled toward the positve plate,but when the pulse stops,the electron will link back up with the hydrogen molecule.That's how Stan describes this process in section one of the tech brief page 1-7.
The ionization process as in the Hydrogen Fracturing Process is what your referring to.That is where electrons are extracted.
Stans does not extract electrons to get the Electrical Polarization Process to work.
Don -
#41 · date not recorded
Dynodon, Take a look at the 1° video of the NewZealand house meeting... You pay attention when arrives at 28min30sec "Electrically Intensified"
Take a look at his drawings, and keep in your mind the question "why isolated ground"? -
#42 · date not recorded
All you said is also correct except that the process of using voltage to pull apart the molecule include the need for an isolated ground and thus suggest automatically that when he mention water bath he includes all the water molecules, And Polarization mean imbalance of electrons. If stan called it electrical polarization process is because is exactly what it do. It do has to do with extracting electrons from the water bath you read that many times in the patents...
I'm pretty sure about what i'm talking about!
Fabio -
#43 · date not recorded
In the isolated water bath, the water molecule takes on charge, and the charge increases. The object of the process is to switch off the co-valent bonding of the water molecule and interrupt the sub-atomic force, i.e. the electrical force or electromagnetic force, that binds the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to form a molecule so that the hydrogen and oxygen separate.
[/size]Because an electron will only occupy a certain electron shell (the shells are well known) the voltage applied to the capacitor affects the electrical forces inherent in the co-valent bond. As a result of the charge applied by the plates, the applied force becomes greater than the force of the co-valent bonds between the atom of the water molecule; and the water molecule becomes elongated. When this happens, the time share ratio of the electrons between the atoms and the electron shells is modified.
[/size]In the process, electrons are extracted from the water bath; electrons are not consumed nor are electrons introduced into the water bath by the circuit as electrons are conventionally introduced in an electrolysis process. There may nevertheless occur a leakage current through the water. Those hydrogen atoms missing electrons become neutralized; and atoms are liberated from the water. The charged atoms and electrons are attracted to opposite polarity voltage zones created between the capacitor plates. The electrons formerly shared by atoms in the water co-valent bond are re-allocated such that neutral elemental gases are liberated.
[/size]In the process, the electrical resonance may be reached at all levels of voltage potential. The overall circuit is characterized as a "resonant charging choke" circuit which is an inductor in series with a capacitor that produces a resonant circuit. [SAMS Modern Dictionary of Electronics, Rudolff Garff, .COPYRGT. 1984, Howard W. Sams & Co. (Indianapolis, Ind.), page 859.]Such a resonant charging choke is on each side of the capacitor. In the circuit, the diode acts as a switch that allows the magnetic field produced in the inductor to collapse, thereby doubling the pulse frequency and preventing the capacitor from discharging. In this manner a continuous voltage is produced across the capacitor plates in the water bath; and the capacitor does not discharge. The water molecules are thus subjected to a continuously charged field until the breakdown of the co-valent bond occurs.
[/size]As noted initially, the capacitance depends on the dielectric properties of the water and the size and separation of the conductive elements forming the water capacitor.
[/size]EXAMPLE I
[/size]In an example of the circuit of FIG. 1 (in which other circuit element specifications are provided above), two concentric cylinders 4 inches long formed the water capacitor of the fuel cell in the volume of water. The outside cylinder was 0.75 inch in outside diameter; the inner cylinder was 0.5 inch in outside diameter. Spacing from the outside of the inner cylinder to the inner surface of the outside cylinder was 0.0625 inch. Reasonance in the circuit was achieved at a 26 volt applied pulse to the primary coil of the torroid at 0KH.sub.z, and the water molecules disassociated into elemental hydrogen and oxygen and the gas released from the fuel cell comprised a mixture of hydrogen, oxygen from the water molecule, and gases formerly dissolved in the water such as the atmospheric gases or oxygen, nitrogen, and argon.
[/size]In achieving resonance in any circuit, as the pulse frequency is adjusted, the flow of amps is minimized and voltage is maximized to a peak. Calculation of the resonance frequency of an overall circuit is determined by known means; different cavities have a different frequencY of resonance dependent on parameters of the water dielectric, plate size, configuration and distance, circuit inductors, and the like. Control of the production of fuel gas is determined by variation of the period of time between a train of pulses, pulse amplitude and capacitor plate size and configuration, with corresponding value adjustments to other circuit components.
[/size]The wiper arm on the second inductor tunes the circuit and accommodates to contaminants in water so that the charge is always applied to the capacitor. The voltage applied determines the rate of breakdown of the molecule into its atomic components. As water in the cell is consumed, it is replaced by any appropriate means or control system.
[/size]Variations of the process and apparatus may be evident to those skilled in the art.
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#44 · date not recorded
my question might not be entirely relevant for this particular thread, in watching various meyer videos and texts in the last few days comes a question:
As meyer appears to be shifting the oxygen to its 4th state to acquire the use of a higher energy, then is it possible to manufacture an air gas processor (and eec) to fit within the air intake of a standard vehicle to increase the power level - which could theoretically help with lowering fuel consumption by requiring less fuel for the same energy used.....? -
#45 · date not recorded
the references you gave are from his early patent,but it still doesn't say that he was removing electrons from the water to get it to seperate.Electrons are set free from the seperation of the water molecule.The electrons your saying are extracted, are the two electrons that hold the hydrogen molecule to the oxygen.In order to get those electrons you first have to seperate the water molecule to get to those electrons.So if your extarcting electrons,they are there because you seperated the water molecule.Not the other way around.Where do you think those electrons are coming from,if their not coming from the water molecule?Are there just free electrons floating in the water bath?If your isolated ground is there and your not pulling any in,than where do they come from?
Don -
#46 · date not recorded
You agree with me that water conducts even if it is very pure. This means that there are free electrons there. Yet water is a dielectric and as a dielectric it can take on a charge. This is the charge stan is talking about. Stan charge the bath and discharge thru an arc maybe Sequentially to be able to leave on the water a very high positive charge. The electrode it self will miss electrons and therefore a field area is formed.
When the charge in the water is greater than the electrical forces the water will split apart by it self.
The electrons that flow because of electrolysis are not related. Well actually they are but is not about them that i'm talking about...
You must think about water like an acrylic rod that you can rub and it get a charge.
I think that stan took advantage of the prof. Van de Graf findings about the fact that no charge exist inside a conductor, thus if you apply the charge inside the conductor you can theoretically keep adding charge indefinitely. This is what i'm talking about when i say the thing related to the capacitance inside the capacitance.. .
So basically, yes there are electrons in the water bath so you can charge the water by applying a single wire with high voltage up to a certain degree as described earlier. There are also electrons in the electrodes and being able to extract some of those electrons would be good too. With the vic you can create max possible voltage possible the basic requisite for the electron extraction, so doing this sequentially you can create a very high charge on the water.
Wfchobby
Certainly! -
#47 · date not recorded
There are not free electrons in water, it is the ions in the water that carry the current... From the Wiki...QuoteElectrolysis is the passage of a direct electric current through an ionic substance that is either molten or dissolved in a suitable solvent, resulting in chemical reactions at the electrodes and separation of materials.
The main components required to achieve electrolysis are :
An electrolyte : a substance containing free ions which are the carriers of electric current in the electrolyte. If the ions are not mobile, as in a solid salt then electrolysis cannot occur.A direct current (DC) supply : provides the energy necessary to create or discharge the ions in the electrolyte. Electric current is carried by electrons in the external circuit.Two electrodes : an electrical conductor which provides the physical interface between the electrical circuit providing the energy and the electrolyteElectrodes of metal, graphite and semiconductor material are widely used. Choice of suitable electrode depends on chemical reactivity between the electrode and electrolyte and the cost of manufacture. -
#48 · date not recorded
When a charge is applied to a capacitor, the electrical charge of the capacitor equals the applied voltage charge; in a water capacitor, the dielectric property of water resists the flow of amps in the circuit, and the water molecule itself, because it has polarity fields formed by the relationship of hydrogen and oxygen in the covalent bond, and an intrinsic dielectric property, becomes part of the electrical circuit, analogous to a "microcapacitor" within the capacitor defined by the plates.
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[/size]In the isolated water bath, the water molecule takes on charge, and the charge increases. The object of the process is to switch off the co-valent bonding of the water molecule and interrupt the sub-atomic force, i.e. the electrical force or electromagnetic force, that binds the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to form a molecule so that the hydrogen and oxygen separate.
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[/size]By being so subjected to electrical pulses in the circuit of FIG. 1, water confined in the volume that includes the capacitor plates takes on an electrical charge that is increased by a step charging phenomenon occurring in the water capacitor. Voltage continually increases (to about 1000 volts and more) and the water molecule starts to elongate.
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[/size]In the process, electrons are extracted from the water bath; electrons are not consumed nor are electrons introduced into the water bath by the circuit as electrons are conventionally introduced in an electrolysis process
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[/size]Now i ask you:
[/size]Is he or isn't he talking about the charge on the water inside the volume? -
#49 · date not recorded
Micro capacitors Charged!!! -
#50 · date not recorded
All this make me be very certain that the variable inductor or resistor is to control the voltage field on the negative electrode. As if you apply a negative electric field in the negative electrode you will repel electrons coming from the current so it restrict the amps by repelling the electrons!!!