Gated Pulse Frequency Generator Schematic

Quote from: newguy on March 29, 2011, 10:31:17 am

#27 · 29 Mar 2011

Howdy just got in from work ...I have a multism 11 started if someone wants to play with it.. Im just able to get some pulses out of and im sure Ive got some errors.The 122 option isnt available with the sim so ive been tring the 123.The part i dont understand is connections M1 and B.

I stuck the tecktronix scope on it and tried to measure the frequency... weird ..... hope somebody will check it out.Ehh im probably wrong but it looks like the gate is providing the "hit" lol I dont know but will somebody tell me wer the M1 and B connections come from?

M1 is from figure 2 of stan meyers control circuits patent its a variable width pulse based on the position of the gas pedal, controlled by a sliding metal shuttle or window between a row of LED's and Photosensors. the 16 inputs to a multiplexor are variable and that translates to a 10% thru 90% pulse width

This pulse width does 2 things, one: it controls the Positive side voltage using figures 3 & 4 to the primary of the VIC coil
and
two: it controls the number of gated PLL signals.

( there is a gate anded with the PLL... fig 6 and fig 7... these then are supervised by figure 2 for final throttle speed or GAS PRODUCTION by using a PWM level to control output

B: is probably used to calibrate the figure 6 for mechanical resonance ( using a 50% duty cycle signal that is fixed from figure 12) then switched to M1 for running normal operation via throttle pedal control

#28 · 29 Mar 2011

Mr.Don is it normal to get an output frequency much differant from the input frequency? The sim shows putting in 1khz and outputing 3khz

Dynodon

#29 · date not recorded

Tony,I once made the frequency generator on a breadboard,and the 555 output was @ 42khz.I haven't checked to see if Stan used different caps and resistors with this one,but my guess would have been the same for both.
I don't see anything in that circuit that is used to adjustment for a max setting of frequency.The Gated Pulse Frequency Generator (fig 6) just adjust duty cycle,and the Variable Pulse Frequency Generator adjust frequency (fig 12).

So if you get 40khz out of the 555,then you get 4khz after the first decade counter,then 400hz,40hz.

Newguy,I don't think that the frequency should change after passing through the 74122.As stated above,it's only meant to adjust duty cycle.

#30 · 30 Mar 2011

Ive got cleaner sim now but still no adjustment but im still try'n to fix it.

fig6attempt1.ms11

#31 · 31 Mar 2011

yet a little closer i believe but still no adjustment.Im not familar with the 74123 chips but there must be a reason he chose it.. i say "it" cawz the 74123 is just a double 74122 but the 74123 is all thats available for the sim.The only thing specific ive found about the chip is that its not a 50% duty cycle like a 555 chip.Im still try'n to fix it the sim tho.Wish we had the frequency generator Stan used cawz in his notes he says its a resonate frequency generator.

anywho I just changed d1 to 1n418 and its behaven a lil differant, still no dern adjustment tho.

fig6attempt1.ms11

#32 · 31 Mar 2011

Im under the impression this circuit is most important to provide the correct waveform

?

well i just changed the d1 to a 1n914 and the frequency to 5khz on the am signal and it looks more like Stans drawings after you let the sim run for a minute and really look at it.Still no adjustment tho and i havent got the cell off or pull ring switches to work.

#33 · date not recorded

ok.... finally .... its not the adjustment that doesnt work its the sim.with the values posted and running 5khz am into it if u manually change the pots value it works but with the 5khz it doesnt work under 90kohms.and i cant get a square wave into it to work at all.

sebosfato

#34 · date not recorded

Newguy, is much simpler to use a 555 timer and an opamp like 741, so you can vary from 0 up to 100% dutycycle without changing the frequency. Please Don't think that this circuit for the gate is absolutely necessary or the only way to make the gate to put the thing to work cause its not.

Of course is better than the opamp, for higher frequencies, maybe,,,

The important thing is to match the impedance so you can apply maximum voltage to the water restricting the amps.

Quote from: sebosfato on March 31, 2011, 14:04:56 pm

#35 · date not recorded

Newguy, is much simpler to use a 555 timer and an opamp like 741, so you can vary from 0 up to 100% dutycycle without changing the frequency. Please Don't think that this circuit for the gate is absolutely necessary or the only way to make the gate to put the thing to work cause its not.

Of course is better than the opamp, for higher frequencies, maybe,,,

The important thing is to match the impedance so you can apply maximum voltage to the water restricting the amps.

ok but its not changing the frequency the only thing its doing ..well i dare say the only thing but ...... wat its not doing is changing the frequency.What its doing is timing how often the frequency goes thru.(duty cycle of the frequency)Im very currious how the cell driver circuit effects the pulse from this gated signal but I would almost bet it just amplifies it so the the primary dont burn up the circut... but i really cant wait to see a waveform from this circut

to me it looks just like his drawing... thing is his drawing looks like a regular square wave untill youve played with this circuit

for some reason you have to usually slide the pot a lil bit to get the sim to start sometimes ....

Quote from: newguy on March 31, 2011, 14:08:46 pm

#36 · 1 Apr 2011

ok but its not changing the frequency the only thing its doing ..well i dare say the only thing but ...... wat its not doing is changing the frequency.What its doing is timing how often the frequency goes thru.(duty cycle of the frequency)Im very currious how the cell driver circuit effects the pulse from this gated signal but I would almost bet it just amplifies it so the the primary dont burn up the circut... but i really cant wait to see a waveform from this circut to me it looks just like his drawing... thing is his drawing looks like a regular square wave untill youve played with this circuit for some reason you have to usually slide the pot a lil bit to get the sim to start sometimes ....

try this circuit....works better in the sim
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg19749#msg19749

Quote from: ali on April 01, 2011, 05:19:22 am

#37 · date not recorded

Quote from: newguy on March 31, 2011, 14:08:46 pm

ok but its not changing the frequency the only thing its doing ..well i dare say the only thing but ...... wat its not doing is changing the frequency.What its doing is timing how often the frequency goes thru.(duty cycle of the frequency)Im very currious how the cell driver circuit effects the pulse from this gated signal but I would almost bet it just amplifies it so the the primary dont burn up the circut... but i really cant wait to see a waveform from this circut to me it looks just like his drawing... thing is his drawing looks like a regular square wave untill youve played with this circuit for some reason you have to usually slide the pot a lil bit to get the sim to start sometimes ....

try this circuit....works better in the sim
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1965.msg19749#msg19749

Thanks Ali, i think i got overexcited for a minute i found an error on connection K and i dont like connection K lol. The waveform has changed to something regular on the sim thru a transformer so Im kinda depressed rite now lol.

Quote from: newguy on April 01, 2011, 14:12:15 pm

#38 · date not recorded

ok my hopes are back up again....i just picked the first coponents i found to check it again but now the waveform remains the same thru a transformor

fig6attempt1.ms11

andy

#39 · date not recorded

ok my hopes are back up again....i just picked the first coponents i found to check it again but now the waveform remains the same thru a transformor

Hi Newguy
I have question to You . Is Q4 connected corect in this sim?
andy

#40 · 2 Apr 2011

Just want to let everyone know that this circuit doesn't work. I built it today and couldn't get anything at the at the output, not sure what the issue is with this circuit.

Quote from: TonyWoodside on April 02, 2011, 04:31:29 am

#41 · 2 Apr 2011

Just want to let everyone know that this circuit doesn't work. I built it today and couldn't get anything at the at the output, not sure what the issue is with this circuit.

research truth tables for XOR, NOR ( in stans fig 6) and XNOR

I think we need XNOR logic to make the signal get through to the 74122

Was that the chip you used when you built the non functional circuit?

I think the patent drawing was drawn wrong on those logic ICs, the only time a NOR gate allows a signal high is when all inputs are LOW and this cant happen with VDD on each of the pins continuously !

#42 · 2 Apr 2011

Don or anyone, do you have the pinout connections for figure 12 on the 4017 chips?

#43 · 2 Apr 2011

I used the 74122, I even bypassed the NOR gates and still nothing at the output. There must be some values wrong for the components the connect to the 74122.

#44 · 2 Apr 2011

Ok guys I withdraw my previous statement. I had a faulty 7404 on my Variable Frequency Generator, it wasn't allowing the pulses to go down to 0v and this was causing the 74122 not to output anything, but i have it all working now and it works GREAT!!!!

Quote from: andy on April 01, 2011, 14:25:28 pm

#45 · 2 Apr 2011

Quote from: newguy on April 01, 2011, 14:12:15 pm
ok my hopes are back up again....i just picked the first coponents i found to check it again but now the waveform remains the same thru a transformor

Hi Newguy
I have question to You . Is Q4 connected corect in this sim?
andy

nope Andy its not

you'll have to look over me sometimes... im not an electronics guy and nite shift messes with me lol Do we know the values for the cell driver components ? ill b try n to fill in the circuit with at least all the correct variables in the cell driver .... i cant find a transistor configured exactly like the pnp ones on fig 5 does anyone know wat they are or if they are pnp and npn transistors?

sebosfato

#46 · date not recorded

when the arrow direction point to the base is pnp. when the arrow point to the emiter is the npn.

#47 · date not recorded

ok here is the waveform or something closer to wat i was expecting to see, all ive done is superimposed another signal onto the gate signal.The idea i thawt i guess is to fill every other pulse with the gate signal.Ive got the frequency and adjustment close but not perfect if anyone is interested or will state an opinnion.The cell driver circuit variables are there but not not hooked up ,you can see wer the scope is attatched the reisister that hooks up the cell driver part.. i just guessed at the components wich aint good but should be able to be replaced with ease if someone knows the rite parts. again i thawt the idea was to fill every other pulse of the superimposed signal with a gate signal.Im just tryin to learn for now so an oppinion would be nice

I dont have the frequency and gate adjustment matched to fill just every other pulse yet.

fig6attempt1.ms11

Dynodon

#48 · date not recorded

Ali, the frequency generator circuit (fig 12) is the same as the 8XA thats already posted somewhere on this site.The chips are 7490 and not 4017.
Don

#49 · date not recorded

Yea thats the type Variable Frequency Generator that Im using. I have the complete circuit about 95% completed, I just need to make some connections between the boards and add a couple of capacitors and it will be finished and ready for testing. So far I've been able to test out the Variable Frequency Generator, Gated Pulse Generator, Pulse Indicator, Driver Circuit and Resonant Scanning Circuit. They are all operating as Stan says they should. The biggest part will of course be the PLL circuit. Keep ya fingers crossed. I will report my results ASAP!!!