sebosfato

Check this drawing

I did not fully understood. but from what i've being thinking in one of the stan patents he just recharge the battery and drive the load




I think that stan did it more easy he probably used a dc motor to run the alternator than he used the alternator connected to 3 set of tubes and used the electron extraction circuit to accelerate the dc motor. this way he take the mains 110v and and his variac with full bridge rectifier and a capacitor this controlling the motor. With but he than use this capacitor as the discharge path from the electron extraction circuit witch in turn will accelerate the alternator with easy.


_The alternator to be self run i think is difficult because of the phase things, if it were biphase would be easier... or maybe the inductor stan used had the ablility of changing ths phase relationship.. well i'm not so sure but i'm sure that we all are going to succeed.


 

I think that i have an old computer here and i will try to use it as my osciloscope...

The gas processor worked in similar manner. And thats how stan could have powered his rockets.


Do you see the hell of energy that there is there...


There were  a toy here in brazil called aquamovel witch as a car that you use to put water and a 1,5 volt battery and the car run for a very long time using that tinny battery... And water get consumed... My brother had one. Think to your self destiny irony.


I will explain more clearly another time with the components
too.


Transformer with primary maybe about 50 turns, the secondary (bifilar) about 150 turns, not thin wire, than 1 coil about 100 turns + another coil external witch is variable + A feed back coil to get the resonant signal to lock on the pll... Two igbt that are activated alternately, each one connected to one of the secondary in the manner i'm going to show with the drawing, Basically you create two circuits isolated from each other one for charging the water and the other to discharge the water. i guess is better for observing the effect to not add a load like meyer proposed.
the fact is that the electron extraction circuit witch he showed would not work because the diode shown under is at wrong direction. (misleading propose)


The secret, in the end is this. And also understand the polarity of the coils to correctly create the feed back of the energy...


I think that probably he added a capacitor in parallel with the secondary coil to allow for the discharge and set up the resonant frequency..
I'm not sure of this..

And is not just that, together with that 10kw there is yet the H2 you created too. .. So a hell of energy in a liter of water.


Things important to  consider:


 A good way to maximize water ionization (from tomlin book i knew that magnetic field is able to do this) but i think that the electric field that we are going to apply already will supply for the least part of energy for the self ionization of water too... whatever i don't know. But now i'm more confident with the stuff stan said about any man with minimal skills in electronics would be able to construct the thing in his own garage. With readily available materials... 


 A mean for forcing the water to flow between the tubes. Witch i believe that is a must have feature.

Steve you are indeed starting to understand. But you got confused in that the water will not become H O atoms, but there are ions already in the water and this ions come exclusively from self ionization of water and they are OH- and H+ ions. Basically Stan created a self oscillating resonant circuit in witch he was using the transformer as a coupler that unite the energy coming from the discharge of this ions with the electrostatic energy being applied on to allow the separation of this ions " the voltage ".


So basically he used the transformer with two distinct circuits connected to the same water coupled magnetically.


The graphic of the voltage is ever rising because the more energy you apply the greater the voltage will be and thus the force acting on the ions separation will be increased with the square of the voltage increase. Thus the greater the voltage the greater the ions separation. Now comes the master part... : Is't charge separation = to voltage? Do they not wan't to bring back together and their separation does not mean that it can do work?


Well this is what the electron extraction circuit is there for:


To create a circuit (circuit of inductors transformer and water) that will discharge this energy from the ions back to the transformer each cycle.
During this discharge of the ions electricity that the h2 and O2 are generated  because as they want to recombine together and they are close to he electrode if you short the circuit the electrons will pull out from the OH- also because of the voltage that is working there still on the separation....  successively going to discharge the h+ ions thus forming H2 and O2. In chemistry book here it written as discharging the gases and that opened my mind for this new great idea.


Thats why stan said If you have 100 volts separation of the ions and 100 amps / sec for example of ions... you have 10kw of power of electricity !!!!!!!!!


Do You understand where the power is coming from?
(voltage performing work)


you see?

100 amps means that he is generating almost 4 mols of H2 per hour... and there is that much of energy available..


Did you understood now better?

I believe that the concept is so simple that is very hard for me to express my plans.. . 

Basically you charge the water capacitor with the vic (basic) than as the tubes are connected in series. And than you discharge the tubes thru the secondary as from electron extraction circuit...  (this will make it become a self oscillation circuit because energy gained during coulomb force (voltage performing work) enter in the circuit thus you will increase the force, increase the gain and so on (is exponential) watch again new Zealand house meeting 1° and 2°... And  think about this ions and dissociation of water... (pay attention when he say that 100 amps * 100v = 10kw power... 

Outlawstc

Or better, something like this.
I would like to try something like this:

can anyone help me with that 3 phase signal?

Occurred me that the discharge of the ions must occur in the 240° phase thus i will need something that make me create a PLL divided in 3 phase feed back loop to this frequency, and match the alternator speed for reach the resonant frequency. Than the power input will be controlled by the field coil and consequently also another adjust on the driver motor sepeed to reach the resonance and tune it...


Probably thats why he used the extra inductor...


Don't know yet 

Quote from: sebosfato on August 28, 2010, 14:59:16 pm

yes man


i'm just figuring out how to make the cell with less money possible
Every time i think i get more absolutely sure...


I'm going to use only the alternator and a small motor to drive it...


When resonance start the alternator will rise its speed because i'll discharge the ions on one of the phase windings.


I just also need to figure out exactly how to connect the alternator exactly


i know that the alternator have the phases different by 120° i guess thus i need to choose the right winding for doing the job.. . still not sure hwo to do this...

Maybe the following helps to make up yr mind.
I seen the ion spike on my scope. I even made a picture of it.
As soon as you use that charge coming of the tubes for example lighting a bulb, you extract
the power from the water, which you just filled.
....
 
 
 
Steve

Yes steve i remembered that picture when i found this...


I worked all night on the alternator to separate its windings and i've just finished to assembly it. First of all i will make it become a motor... Than i will use the other 2 coils for develop the coulomb force on the water.. _Than when it will be working i will add a motor to mechanically turn the alternator and than i will use that winding to discharge the feedback of ions!!! this will accelerate the alternator without consuming force from the motor. I believe it can get self running... not sure...

yes man


i'm just figuring out how to make the cell with less money possible
Every time i think i get more absolutely sure...


I'm going to use only the alternator and a small motor to drive it...


When resonance start the alternator will rise its speed because i'll discharge the ions on one of the phase windings.


I just also need to figure out exactly how to connect the alternator exactly


i know that the alternator have the phases different by 120° i guess thus i need to choose the right winding for doing the job.. . still not sure hwo to do this...

We are the peace!


I just really solved the problem behind meyer principle. In the end is the same principle on all the devices related. Be open minded to understand what is being said.


I understood why meyer used 9 transformers and 9 pairs of tubes and how he used them...


I understood also how to use the electron extraction circuit and why it is the base of the working principle.


For you to understand well keep in mind the following translation for Meyer's words.


Electron extraction circuit = short circuit = discharge electrons from oh- ions into h+ ions, allowing the ions to be discharged generating than h2 and o2 molecules. This discharge must be made wisely to not loose the energy applied on the polarization process. It thus must be discharged into a capacitor

Is because water will behave as a battery, it will be ionized (plasma like) and the charges will be maintained apart by the force from the pump witch makes the water to cross the magnetic field. The wood membrane will let only the ions to pass due to the very low voltage developed because of the flow of the water in relation to the magnetic field, than all this electricity charge the resonant capacitor and when it discharges you discharge also the ions, extracting electrons from the oh- ions and shorting them on h+ ions...


Actually it will be like charging a capacitor but instead of building up voltage you will only generate H2 you will only have a voltage when most of this ions are discharged as h2.


Will not be a too simple task


I'm trying to figure out the needed calculation for the forces acting on the ions ...


I'm trying to figure out the calculation V= Q/e^r witch stan show on the book, i think this is a way to find out what the hell capacitance really is...


 

I also got a motor out of my cloths washing machine... It seemed to be broken but were only one wire inside the motor that was broken, i think that i fixed it up.. this one runs on 110v and i believe is about 300 watts....


I will use this to turn the alternator for some tests...


+


I made some calculations and found that 62uh with a 15uf capacitors would give +-5000 hz resonance....

Hello guys i have just put my hands on an alternator witch i got from a mechanic friend here...


I was measuring the inductance and resistance with my lrc meter and got the following results...


the stator had 23,34mh 4,2 ohms


the armature windings had 62uh 0,2ohm 1-2 (left and middle)    2-3  (middle and right wire)


But the left and right were 61,2uh and 0,0 ohms


I would have a question... any of you have ever tried using the alternator without all the diodes???


Have you tried to pulse the stator with high frequency?


Regards

I just finished my tube cell the other day, i'm using nylon spacers filled in holes at the inner tubes.... it gets in with some pressure... each tube set has  190pf with air..
measuring with the lrc meter it shows 13mf for one and 8mf for the other... DC TESTED... but theres an explanation  that, my inner tubes were coated to different degrees with nickel and pd. so their effective contact area is different although same physical sizes and separation...

Anyway if 81 dielectric constant was to be accounted the tubes should have around 16nf... but i guess the pseudocapacitance effect is greater due to liquid interface.
 

The Video you show, when you add more leds in series you are changing the impedance, probably you are reaching the point of greater energy transfer. This happens when the input impedance is = to the load impedance.


For example you have a 50ohms impedance source, than you have a transformer having a transformation factor of 10 than your load must have 5000ohms for maximum transfer.


If you have for example 100v and two amps you have 50ohm.


And if you have 1000v 0,2amps you have 5000ohms load.

Don i would like to ask you something...


There was any kind of conductive surface on the outside of the container? I don't know why but i remember to see a photo where there was a circle maybe made of copper around the cell... Can you confirm that?


Could you also describe how exactly the inner tubes where fixed on the disk and how that disk was fixed in the bottom of the cell?


Thanks again.
Fabio

Perfectly clear! Do you took note of the distance between the holes of how many holes there was?


Thanks