Finaly getting results
Started by unknown · · 57 posts · last reply 5 March 2010
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#1 · date not recorded
After getting frustrated with transformers and chokes i decided to try Kevin West's method . Well im finaly getting lots of bubbles :
Happy days
John
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#2 · date not recorded
After getting frustrated with transformers and chokes i decided to try Kevin West's method . Well im finaly getting lots of bubbles :
Happy days
John
Ok, John. Well done.
First step is done in making HHO!
Steve
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#3 · date not recorded
How much power do you need for that? -
#4 · date not recorded
How much power do you need for that?
Thats using about 1.5 amps
John -
#5 · date not recorded
By Kevin Wests method you mean pulsing a rewired (higher voltage) alternator?
Looks good!
Do you notice an increase in production from pulsing the alternator compared to not pulsing it?
Are you finding an kind of resonance with your pulsing? -
#6 · date not recorded
Yes , its the rewired high voltage alternator method . Loads more bubbles by pulsing it . Getting the step charging effect on the scope , i'll post some pics tomorrow .
John -
#7 ·
1.5 Amps total? Or only circuit or only alternator? And 12V for both? thanksHow much power do you need for that?
Thats using about 1.5 amps
John
Also pulsed current, direct current, alternating current? It's all important for power calculations.
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#8 · date not recorded
Hey, good work, those results are nice to hear.
I may try some pulsing with my alternator soon, there are lots of things I want to try as soon as I get the free time. -
#9 · date not recorded
what is the frequency your alternator puts out without it being pulsed? -
#10 · date not recorded
@ haither .... There is 1.5 amps going into the alternator (12v pulsed ) , about 100 volts out .what is the frequency your alternator puts out without it being pulsed?
I dont know sorry . but it does produce some bubbles without being pulsed . I was hoping to do some tests today but havent had time .
John -
#11 · date not recorded
Hi about the frequency of the alternator signal it puts out.
Ran a test with just a variac and full bridge on the rotor. This is 120hz solid no duty. If half bridge is used would be 60hz 50% duty and will try that soon.
Standard 36 well alternator but windings connected in series and a diode between winding 2-3 to see if this winding method worked that was posted by H2opower at another forum.
Well it worked pretty good and only 1 diode. Its more of an AC signal but has DC in it.
Frequency the scope saw was 345-350 hertz pretty solid.
Motor is 3450 rpm and the pulley ratio is near 1:1.
Wish I could vary motor speed, will try other pulley sizes soon.
Efficiency best with 1 tube set and lowers when other tube sets are connected. Thats one reason to see if motor speed would effect the efficiency rating.
Basing efficiency on current in phase with voltage signal.
Also would like to see what changes when more winding and smaller wire is used.
Its fun but there are so many variables to play with.
Right now trying to concentrate on the foam produced.
Waiting for others to post findings and maybe start talking about the foam and how to fully convert it.
Also why is there so much foam is it the water contaminents (type of water) holding it together?
Not ionized enough?
I'm sure you guys have seen plenty of foam right?
If the foam got converted there would be that much more fuel available for several methods of use. -
#12 · date not recorded
Hi about the frequency of the alternator signal it puts out.
Ran a test with just a variac and full bridge on the rotor. This is 120hz solid no duty. If half bridge is used would be 60hz 50% duty and will try that soon.
Standard 36 well alternator but windings connected in series and a diode between winding 2-3 to see if this winding method worked that was posted by H2opower at another forum.
Well it worked pretty good and only 1 diode. Its more of an AC signal but has DC in it.
Frequency the scope saw was 345-350 hertz pretty solid.
Motor is 3450 rpm and the pulley ratio is near 1:1.
Wish I could vary motor speed, will try other pulley sizes soon.
Efficiency best with 1 tube set and lowers when other tube sets are connected. Thats one reason to see if motor speed would effect the efficiency rating.
Basing efficiency on current in phase with voltage signal.
Also would like to see what changes when more winding and smaller wire is used.
Its fun but there are so many variables to play with.
Right now trying to concentrate on the foam produced.
Waiting for others to post findings and maybe start talking about the foam and how to fully convert it.
Also why is there so much foam is it the water contaminents (type of water) holding it together?
Not ionized enough?
I'm sure you guys have seen plenty of foam right?
If the foam got converted there would be that much more fuel available for several methods of use.
Komtek,
Can you tell us what kind of water and/or chemicals you use?
Steve
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#13 · date not recorded
No chemicals!
Last test spring water but doesn't matter tap water is the same, plenty of foam.
Will try rain water but I'm expecting the same result.
Looking at all others tests its the same stuff nice white foam bubbles filling the cell water bath.
Most of these tests appear to be straight no chemical water, spring tap or rain.
Look at Kevin West same stuff. For several years of water-cell video's its the same stuff. Meyer video's, Ravi's, Lawtons all of them.
Plenty of white foam.
I'm interested in converting the foam but no added chemicals.
Maybe filtering and processing, maybe another voltage zone.
But no chemicals, or how would an anti foaming agent work?
Has to be a way to keep it simple don't you think?
The foam has the appearance that it is split but the waters surface tension won't let is all release.
Some gas comes out but not all.
attachment_5515 full_load_tube.jpg
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#14 · date not recorded
LOOKS GREAT!!!
FOR MOTOR SPEED CONTROL YOU CAN USE:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060
And maybe some GAS-EX for the foam!!!!!
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#15 · date not recorded
In my tests with different water types and voltage type,
i seen that foam too. Its mostly because of the water pollution and high voltage, like 12v.
If you would use max 2volts, you will see much less foam.
All voltage above 2V create steam and NO hydrogen.
Not sure what you want to achieve with the foam.
Steve
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#16 · date not recorded
komtek, if you are able to set it up so you have a pump forcing water through the cell, that will definitely break surface tension, and help move the hydrogen out. -
#17 · date not recorded
This is gonna require more than that if you are to do it without running into a wall of impossiblity .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive
You basicly need a high frequency synchronous motor and a high current 3 phase drive if you want anything remotly efficient past the 400 hz AND controllable with a knob wich is a must , you also need alot of series batteries or an massive house dc supply . Single phase motors should be avoided because theres less torque for the same amount of energy. We are talking a minimum of 1000 watts and lots of money here with the most efficient technique . Use a single phase chopper pwm with a pulley and you will hit the torque maxima , go too fast and you might break the alternator , its basicly hell on earth . Just running this @ 400 hz with house current is an achievement on its own , nice Job Komtek .
Either that or you go linear amplification , but that too has its problems specially with those big parallel caps in the Stephen Meyers system , you basicly need a 0 feedback amp or some compensation with loads of current gain to get those transistor nice and full and keep that nice sine wave , add the bias to that and you see the efficieny dropping and snowball overheating issues come into play ... Quite complex . -
#18 · date not recorded
Steve you say all the voltage above 2volts is making steam?
Then all the foam is totally relateable to steam?
If so I do not understand why the steam is in small bubble form.?
That foam is like an entrapment of a combination of process, steam, and hydroxyl.
Maybe I should try to get the pump connected and check but I think there's plenty of hydroxyl locked into those bubbles.
Will have to work on some connections to pump in and or out in the near future to learn about this foam stuff more.
Its a parasite and everyone using multiple tubes has ran into it, I'm sure.
(Maybe a good test would be to connect the tubes in series?).
Many things would not make sense if its all steam, why are people making hi-voltage alternators for tube sets.
Its not all steam! (Needs to be looked into some more). -
#19 ·
Measure the temp? if it's steam it will have a high temp, that'll settle it. I don't think it's steam though.
I wouldn't really worry about the trapped bubbles too much, because the water is only going to hold so much once it start running, and then all the production after that saturation point is going to be forced out... so if it takes 5 minutes to saturate with bubbles, all the gas coming out after that would not be trapped... -
#20 ·
I agree if there's a lot of steam temp will rise.
Have ran it maybe 20-30 minute tests and havn't noticed a temp change.
Only measuring the outside with a IR thermometer.
The saturation point sounds good and you can see the stuff already going back into the tube sets.
It still makes me want to find a filtering method because it does happen.
Makes me wonder about a hi-voltage static filtering device that Meyer used.
Will work on one step at a time.
Also that speed control that Askmehhow pointed out may have possibilities. Very affordable. -
#21 ·
I think the foam is a good thing! It's possible that when the bubbles are circulated back though the tubes the gases may be ionized. It takes about 20Kv to ionize oxygen but, on the other hand, hydrogen can be easily ionized around 12-15V. I have no real proof this is what may be happening as the bubbles recirculate through the cell until I find an ion detector for an actual measurement of some sort. Also, pressure may have a role in the overall process. Thank you for the frequency measurements! -
#22 ·
Steve you say all the voltage above 2volts is making steam?
Then all the foam is totally relateable to steam?
If so I do not understand why the steam is in small bubble form.?
That foam is like an entrapment of a combination of process, steam, and hydroxyl.
Maybe I should try to get the pump connected and check but I think there's plenty of hydroxyl locked into those bubbles.
Will have to work on some connections to pump in and or out in the near future to learn about this foam stuff more.
Its a parasite and everyone using multiple tubes has ran into it, I'm sure.
(Maybe a good test would be to connect the tubes in series?).
Many things would not make sense if its all steam, why are people making hi-voltage alternators for tube sets.
Its not all steam! (Needs to be looked into some more).
Steam or watervapour.
Thats all you get above 2V.
Dont forget....you do electrolysis and nothing else, so all the laws for that proces count.
The funny thing with wfc's is that if you apply a higher voltage, your wfc will pull more amps and thats good. But your efficiency will drop dramatically, because all volts above 2v create watervapour/steam.
At the end, you will have a mix of HHO and H2O. Its burnable, but not comparable with a wfc who is doing electrolysis between the 1.5 and 2.5V per cell.
Because you work with electrodes in a BIG bucket of water, the temp will not rise very quickly. The heat is consumed by the water reservoir.
I had the same foam, and if you burn that foam, you will get a big bang, because of the hydrogen, which is trapped in there.
About Bubz point, i had 3KV across my HHO gas and i didnt see any change in flame color, height or temp.
So, what make you think you can ionize hydrogen at 12V and what would you expect as results?
Just curious...
Steve
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#23 · date not recorded
What your calling foam is actually hydroxy gas.I wouldn't call it foam.Foam would be what shows up on top of the water.If your talking about the white tiny bubbles in the water,then thats hydroxy,and thats normal.The scum that builds up on top of the water would be considered foam.
Don -
#24 · date not recorded
Seems to me out of the hundreds perhaps thousands of experimenters of this early tube set-up had run into the tiny white bubbles and there are no posts anywhere suggesting processing or reprocessing to further this.
The tiny bubbles are contained in sticky water surface tensions that have properties. Minerals, chlorides, florides or whatever.
Also it appears that they are split but not split to freedom meaning they wan't to restabilize again.
Like they the tiny bubbles are in a stage between hydroxyl and water and maybe all they need is that little push of completion.
Just a tiny bit more to go, or they are in a state of too many electrons, mass stabilization process caught up in the inbetween.
At the point of split or crack the oxygen has realeased the h2 and the electrons are being pretty fussy trying to restabilize and maybe the tiny bubble stuff is a make up of various oxygen hydrogen stages. Which it is.
Has to be part of a natural process.
I would love to focus some energy on how to deal with those stages of process.
Maybe step 2 might be removal of electrons as suggested by Meyer.
Don't know until its tried.
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#25 · date not recorded
if you go to "resonant action" where particle impact is brought on by charged particles subject to voltage attenuation, the gasses will be jet propelled out of the resonant cavity and out of the water... would solve that problem...