wfchobby

hello,

some mental gymnastics on the air processor, my thoughts:
How to go about making one knowing it will work? well surely stan had a way of calculating what was needed. Instead of just attempting to copy the picture, i am wondering a few things.

For the air intake diameter used on the engine cc size for the volume of air to be passed through it, for the voltage intensifier coil windings to be calculated, do we have any ballpark idea of what may have been the intended voltage across the positive and negative voltage zones in the air processor and possibly any clue on the shape of the s/s electrodes? (an air capacitor with a moving medium)

 ie is there a requirement for a particular length of electrode to provide a contact area for a minimum length of time to obtain the intended effect.?

For the electrodes, is there any preferred or given distance between the electrodes with relation to the voltage zone and voltage used.

in the air processor, for the voltage intensifier coils seen in the pictures (on site here somewhere) is there any know way to figure out how many windings are required - also noticed the air passes through the centre of the voltage intensifier.

At the opposite end, how many windings would be needed to be an effective pickup coil for the electron extractor..

 The air processor seen in the pictures may work on the 1.6l buggy - but not all engines are that size. so im posting these thoughts to ponder - if the above items could be worked out somehow, could there be a way of calculating a way to make, say, a larger diameter air processor for a larger engine.

cheers

attempt at post number 4
when posts contain legitimate url's, the post may come up blank and u lose all of your written post, so if youre to include a url that may not be 100% properly formed, copy your post b4 replying.


when googling the ruskin patent number, also found a site that has magnet kits for the fuel, air and water on engines, http://www.wholly-water.com/MagnetizerAuto.htm

a thought,can magnets be aligned to help with electron ejection as part of a process like or similar to the meyers air processor?

well, i dunno about any of you but reading through the many pages of info its easy to get confusion about the parts and labelling, ie the gas resonant cavity, ambient air ioniser and laser accellerator..... as all 3 initially appear similar due to the use of LED's.

Hi All,
a question to be pondered. Amongst the many topics, and several forums, on electrolysis or water disassociation methods of manufacturing a fuel, there appears to be very little about engine part embrittlement, what causes it, how to prevent it and engine life versus the cost of making a fuel to use.


Is it catalyst based brute force electrolysis that is the cause?
Is it voltage based water disassociation that is the cause?
Did Puharich and or Meyer report the effects of their fuels on engine life?
 
What are your thoughts on this?

When considering an answer, the reason I ask is simply:
 - For all of the various wfc methods being experimented on, would those reliably provide a fuel supply for an engine life intended for , say, 150,000 to 500000km without creating issue of lower engine life versus the cost of engine repair or replacement for the percieved fuel savings.??

and, How are engines going, or are, protected from adverse events such as embrittlement?

kind regards

when testing the VIC, is there any results that indicate multiple cells (whether in series or parallel) obtain desired results over using a single cell on the VIC coil?

Any pointers gratefully received thanks, it is fabulous to witness the substantial theory being worked out on the tube/plate fuel cells but imho to be free is to have a way to practically install something in a vehicle, thats why I am asking. Thanks

Thanks Steve it worked nicely. One issue - download filenames when clicked come up as index.php instead of the actual filename.

cheers

Hi,
3 attempts to download - first 2 uploaded by steve, next one by iontruster - all 3 fail 30.6mb, 30.5mb,30.4mb - it not a problem with the file but how it is hosted i think.

 it could be a setting serverside or program side for either filesize download limit or a timeout connected for download limit - if that cannot be located then a solution is to put the file on some filehost or ftp server, cheers

whats interesting to read is Memo WFC 422 DA, copy attached, it helps make clearer the overall view of the system design for i was getting confused with the laser accellerator, now it comes clearer why he used IR led's paired with IR receivers....

what pointed me to that memo was a comment found on another blog thru google,
"the LED in the GP are not red, they are ultraviolet look at the patent Memo WFC 422 DA page 3-23, in addition to ionization of the area ambiente must use UV 400 to 250 nm is not IR."

The video Stan Meyers Estate Water Fuel Cell #3 shows some reasonably clear images of the gas processor, compared to the basic drawing, the gas processor appears to have 2 coils at one end and one at the other along with the LED's and probably the negative and positive voltage zones as shown in the drawings........what if IR led's were used, id like to construct something similar, just unsure of how to calculate how much material to use for the two sets of end coils....wonder if they were pulsed coils. if this does work to remove electrons it then makes sense why, when looking at the simplistic drawing ofthe manifold, that the exhaust gas and quenching tubes are downstream in the manifold.


Stan Meyers Estate Water Fuel Cell #3

No they do not, but Stan used a Redi-line inverter for the early prototype of the dunebuggy. We have pictures of that.
The 8xa was not designed to run on a 12V source (in a car), but was designed for the patent office to demonstrate the electrical polarization process on Stan's plate cell. Stan's original box ran on 120V AC (standard US household voltage). It can, be used in a car if an inverter is used. I have seen this done numerous times successfully...

Great thanks for clarifying. My thoughts are - instead of utilisting an inverter - provide a sine wave source to effectively replace that waveform....?
On the vehicle installations  where they used the 8xa and inverter - were those engines running 100% from the cell?
cheers

Hi,
just wondering, does Stans documents diagrams or photos of the boards he built include an 12v to 120v ac inverter?

" Take a standard 30 gal electric water heater, build a “Steam Resonator” element to replace the 220 volt element. Hot water using a fraction of the power needs. The only thing I would worry about is leaching of chromium from the stainless. Would run some test before I hooked it into my house."

40 plus years ago copper hot water cylinders were made with their own header tank on top of the cylinder - so it is a top up tank and expansion tank - the cylinder is low pressure - no valve venting requied - the only parts requiring servicing are the ballcock in the headertank and the element, inside the cylinder is a coil of copper = which mains pressure water was fed through to heat giving mains pressure hot water - very effective in isolating low/mains pressure and very low maintanence costs.....the same principle applied to the steam resonator using suitable materials effectively eliminates contamination concerns......also means solar collectors can be hooked into the same system.

" Nothing Stan invented will work without the basics of amp restriction to allow voltage to take over.I've said it before also,you can't get anything else to work without first making gas with voltage only.Everything else is a waste of time.It can't be done if you don't have the basics of Stan method working first.I don't know why people think that they can make any of his later systems work without the basics."

that would be for 100% water as fuel system.
On " booster" cell / gasoline hybrid installations, as I have seen by using low voltage / low current electrolyte based electrolysis (no heat in cell and greater reduction/elimination of gunk buldup in cell)  can help reduce fuel consumption, but must protect engine first with boundary lubrication!

What is not yet clear is....when the meyer setup is accomplished what are the effects of that alternative fuel system on engine components....?

anyway my question is - What is the biggest barrier to solving the meyer cell - is it entirely in the VIC coil and its construction.?

I take the guess that th distance between the plates / tubes equals a frequency that at resonance the vic/choke circuit matches? So is there a calculation to determine gap distance and is there a desired frequency to aim for in determining the gap? and another thought, does the length/height of the tubes / plates affect the frequency aimed for in setting the gap?

my question might not be entirely relevant for this particular thread, in watching various meyer videos and texts in the last few days comes a question:

As meyer appears to be shifting the oxygen to its 4th state to acquire the use of a higher energy, then is it possible to manufacture an air gas processor (and eec) to fit within the air intake of a standard vehicle to increase the power level - which could theoretically help with lowering fuel consumption by requiring less fuel for the same energy used.....?

a post i saw somewhere used a disc with holes drilled to restrict the entire oxygen supply ahead of the air filter, like being at a higher altitude where the air is less available to the entire system...thus tricking the computer into using less fuel

i tried this on my mitsubishi my mileage went from 24 highway to 30 mpg, but the more i restricted the intake air the less passing power i had and at a final point i forgot i had the intake restricted and tried to accelerate hard and almost damaged the motor, it starved for air/fue and stopped running for a second with a loud thump, but no damage was evident

the theory is this.....restrict the oxygen going into the engine, then when you add in the HHO the oxygen is replaced, but with the added hydrogen...no need therefore to mess with computer, mass airflow sensor or oxygen sensors

the engine is designed to waste fuel and this gets you the extra horsepower on demand for passing speeds but during regular operation you are not efficient...by restricting the air intake you incrase efficiency but lose power if needed for acceleration...otherwise there is no noticable effects of restriction

take a 4 inch round plastic disc 1/4 thivk and drill 1/4 inch holes every other point to makwe a 50% restriction
tape this over the air cleaner intake
add tape to cover holes gradually to see increase of mileage

Hi Ali, that sounds interesting. that scanario is why im aiming to have a way to measure the sensor data live from the ecu or from the sensors themselves, with any change it would be handy to see whats actually going on.

i did some sums to convert imperial to metric for my own understanding
30 miles = 48.28km
26 miles = 41.84km
difference: 6.44km
1us gallon = 3.785 litres.

41.84 / 3.785 = 11.05 km/litre of fuel.
48.28 / 3.785 = 12.76 km/litre of fuel.
difference: 1.71 km / litre of fuel.
for 95 grade fuel, current cost is $nz 2.069 per litre.

for safety for both overtaking and the engine itself i wouldnt recommend choking the air intake as the potential reduction in cost of fuel compared to otherpotential costs is not large enough to justify; similar saving could be achieved by feathering the throttle to use as little as possible to reach crusing speeds, when adding the hho into the manifold after the butterfly to rely upon vacuum along with the change in driving behaviour can achieve similar results....jmho. Thats why i want a way to benchmark what the sensors measure both without hho and then with; and any measured change from the sensors may give some data to know whether the added hho is working with you or against you ie does the oxy sensor pickup the change and think it needs to richen the mixture/lengthen the pulsewidth of the injectors..

I support the idea that fuel repacement can be done. the way i see it, most of us will have fuel injected vehicles so the 2 ways of achieving the goal would me: a hybrid of petroleum/gasoline and hho or 100% water/hho.

 Because this is going to take some time to achieve, the problem i see is the hybrid mixing of petroleum and hho particularly with fuel injected vehicles because fuel injected vehicles to my understanding so far limit the amount of variation of fuel consumption to the map and sensors that ultimately control the injector pulsewidth.

For a hybrid install on a fuel injected vehicle, petrol / gasoline consumption reduction has to come from : change in driver behaviour pattern, altering injector pulse width, engine timing, increased combustion efficiency, and importantly engine lubrication.

 As i explained elsewhere i went to a diesel oil spark rated in my vehixle because under friction testing the particular brand had the highest film strength(ability to keep 2 surfaces apart) and the powerup additive in the oil further reduces any friction and ultrasonic friction, add it to the fuel for upper cylinder lubrication also makes a difference.!

so what is being aimed for? I want a way to measure the vehicles sensors in real time and log it, add hho and measure, this then will  tell me what the sensors are doing otherwise we are guessing and measuring only by driving and fuel cost is expensive testing. If theres a sensor change then technically the signals to the ecu must be changed. My current project under construction is to use an arduino board to datalog the sensors, the digital pins can interface with a obd2 interface board to interrogate the ecu live time to get some data, the analog pins can be used to measure injector pulsewidths and any other sensor not picked up in the obd2 stream.

parts used:
OBD-II UART - great board because it does all useful protocols: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9555
TFT lcd screen with microsd card slot http://www.ladyada.net/products/22tftbreakout/
arduino uno board from: http://www.freetronics.com/
power supply regulator to power the uno: http://www.freetronics.com/products/poe-power-regulator-28v
the hard part now is the programming!!!

i think a decision needs to be made. If youre aiming to have a cell set be the fuel supply, will it be a  supplementary supply to existing fuel or a 100% fuel supply OR will the method be to use injectors and bypass the cell idea altogether.?