Bubz,you need to hook a scope to your test to be able to tune into the resonance of your choke.Your seeing alot of noise in your set up.Your choke only, will still resonate,but at what frequency.Once you tune into resonance,you'll see that it's at the same frequency as your input signal.That will only happen at resonance. Don
Kali,I test other ideas just for the sake of research.I've tested Stans coil arrangement and it never works the way he claims.It doesn't double the frequency after the blocking diode.and it doesn't produce unipolar pulse either.It creates alot of a/c like voltage across the water,but no gas.It will light a flouresant bulb,but thats it.
When reading voltage with a scope,it shows up like a/c.Meaning it swings above and below 0 referance line,and there is no double unipolar pulses.Just a sine wave at resonance.Stan states that pulses never drop below 0 ground.Anytime I get all positive pulses,there is always a pause between them,and no double pulses.The frequency at the cell is the same as the pulsed frequency,no doubling.
So I keep trying different test to get those double puses to appear.I feel that those double pulses are the key. Don
Kali, I tested the different coil lay outs before and after I saw the Stans coils.I'm always trying different ways with my set up trying to find the best outcome.Sometimes I don't have my notes handy when hooking up the coils,so I just play around.Gut when I do get them to put out the highest voltage,it always comes out to Stans arrangement.But if I change something in the circuit,like bifiller choke coils verses single coils,it may need a different setup.Sometimes I'll try two diodes,or no step up transformer coils,and other things.
So I don't always test with that one coil arrangement.
In my testing of resonance,I found that resonance was only happening with the positive choke and the cell.If I disconnect the negative choke ,resonance frequency wouldn't change.If I added a capacitor to the top choke,the resonance frequency would change,but if I added it to the negative choke it wouldn't change the frequency for resonance.If I added a capacitor to the cell, resonance frequency would change.
So from my test,resonance is between the positive choke and the cell. Don
Kali, yes the red dots you applied are the correct way.Thats just how all my testing of coils ended up,that gave me the highest output of voltage.I tried arranging the coils in every configuration possible,but that arrangement always gave the highest voltage output.
Stan showed several different drawings with different coil arrangements,so one of them was bound to be right. Don
Kali, Sorry for the late reply,I was out all day yesterday and didn't get a chance to read theses post.
The VIC was wired just like the figure you posted of the coils.All of the coils were wound in the same direction,and put on the core in the same orientation as you travel around the core.They were wired just like the figure as well.So yes that figure is exactly the same as the VIC was wired and layed out.
The blocking diode goes to the positive choke and always goes to the positive tube (outside tube). The negative isolated ground wasn't hooked to any ground either.
I haven't though about putting anything together for sale.But as we go along I will keep adding to the info as I feel comfortable releasing.
Kali, the scope shot is correct the way it was.The unipolar pulses are the large humps,and the high frequencies are riding ontop of it,because both signals are meshed together.If you turn off the high frequencies,all you will see are the 120hz pulses from the rectified ac coming out of the vari-ac.
sebosfato, with all the different ways I've hooked up coils,I have nevr once seen the double pulses.I can find resonance with any set of coils and cell,but still have never seen the frequency doubling effect that Stan talks about.
The frequency doubling Stan talks about, is what he is trying to replicate from the 8xa circuit.The rectified ac from the vari-ac.
Kali, I didn't take that picture but I was there when it was taken.I also wasn't doing the adjusting of it either.At the low voltage you see in the picture of the scope shot,it looks the same way at 80 volts across the cell.Those 120 hz pulses just grow with voltage increase.It would be very hard to see any resonance with this set up.The only resonance you might get will be with the higher frequencies,and since their riding on top of the 120 hz,I don't know what they would look like. Don
Kali' The large humps are the 120hz pulses from the rectified ac voltage from the vari-ac.Then the square wave pulses are the ones riding on top.The 120hz is fixed and is not adjustable.I'm not sure that you understand that part,based on your responces.
Only the pulses riding on top are adjustable.The large unipolar pulses never change.At some points when tuning this set up,you will get harmonics of the two signals where they will match.
I can not see there being any gap in the cores once the coils are bolted to the case.The end caps on the coil pack has to be squeezed in on the U cores in order to bolt the assembly down.At that point there is no gap.
Here's a picture of the pulses at the cell from the 8xa circuit.This should help you see what I'm talking about. Don
kali, The cores for the vic coil were as stated.They did touch when put into coils.That's just a hole in the bobbin to see that the cores are together.The picture of the vic coil,the coil pack wasn't bolted down,so they may not have been touching.
As for the explanation of the 100:1 resistor divider you give makes sense and explains some things to me that I have seen in testing with mine.An electronics engineer gave me those numbers and a spice file showing a dived by ten using the 10 1meg ohm resistors.I measured my probe on 10x and it does measure 9meg.I will have to correct my resistor divider.Thanks for that info.
The coils were wired and hooked up just as I said.That info was taken directly from the vic coil.
The negative connection was isolated,not connected to any ground plane.And the diode was isolated mounted to coil case.
As for the plate cell resonating,I never saw it with a scope.Your test looks like you were driving the coil with a square wave only.The 8xa circuit drives the choke coil with a rectified ac wave and square waves.It gives a totally different output to the coils.You get unipolar humps with a frequency riding on top of it.Your wave is totally different.With my vic coil setup like Stans,I get the same waveform output that your scope shot shows.
All my testing shows that seperate choke coils get higher voltage than bifiller.All wound in same direction,and all of their poles aligned in series around the core. Don
Alan,you can use a voltage divider.Get 10 each 1megaohm resistors and hook them up in series.Hook one end to the cell positive and the other end to ground.Then hook the scope probe between the 9th and 10th resistor.That would be closer to the ground end of the resistor dividers.This will give you a divide by 10 output to the scope.With a probe set on 10x and this divider,you'll get 100:1 ratio. Don
The 20ma's is what my power supply shows being used.It's not read with a amp meter.That is the actual power going into the primary right from my power supply. One other point about frequency doubling.It isn't doubled through the chokes,it's doubled because of the blocking diode.The diode creates the double pulse.Even Stan states that fact in his New Zealand video.Also search the net for diode frequency doubling.I was just reading about that fact last night. I have never seen this doubling effect myself,but I am seeing the frequency cut in half with this setup right now.My frequency generator is putting in 20khz,and I'm reading 10khz at the cell.Not sure what that's all about.I will retest again once I get my scope working or get a new one.These frequencies were taken with a Fluke DVOM.It's got me stumped,because before I would see pulse for pulse.In 5khz and out 5khz. Don
Alan your mixing up different coils designs.Those values go to the water injector coils.Alot of people here needs to keep reading the tech brief, to get a better understanding of the different types of tech he actually had.Too many people are mixing up his work.READ THE BRIEFS!!!!It's all in there and get it straight as to what coil goes to what cell. Don
Bubz,my coils never get even warm,because there is no current,just voltage potential.Only a very small trickle of gas if you look very close.This is a good thing.My cell is completely covered in water,as with Stans resonant cell.There is water level detectors in the side of Stans cell that indicates the level.The cell is a full flow system.Water is always circulating back to the holding tank.The resonance in this cell is only between the tubes.Your not trying to resonate the whole cell cavity. HM,I bought my U cores on Ebay.If you go to their web site I'm sure you can find a dealer list somewher on it.Just about any type of core will work,it just limits how much wire you can get on the bobbins that fit them.Smaller bobbins may need smaller gauge wire to get enough on them. Alan,My cores are ferrite,but laminate will work also.Up to a point.And I've mentioned before my tube set is covered in delrin.Not individually insolated,tubes are bare. Don
OK I mesured my coils tonight.All of my wire is 30 gauge .010" diameter. Primary inductance= 200mH , 200 turns Secondary inductance= 3H , 1000 turns Chokes inductance= 6.5H , 2000 turns Ferroxcube U core,the largest one they make again my LC resonance is @10khz at @ 1kv at the cell
Tony,the diode was the MUR type that Stan gives the number to in his tech brief.Don't remember which one off hand.The resistors were across the feedback coil only.Not all the coil packs had that many resistors.There's no way you could get 2000 turns of 29 gauge wire on the chokes or secondary.I don't know trhe ratios,but I doubt that he used a 30:1 ratio.
My primary coil is pulling 20ma.My whole pulsing circuit pulls 160ma before pulsing coils.Then it goes to 180 at resonance.While tuning it's over 200ma.I'll take a look at my notes later on my coil specs. Don
I have a B&K LCR meter,and have measured it with that.But have no idea on how to use a scope.My scope has stopped working,but I might have found the problem.It has been a hit and miss on working ever since I bought it.My cell measures @ 50uF with city tap water.Thats for a 3 inch long,3/4 inch outside tube with .090" gap,and the center tube is a little longer. Don
sebosfato,your mixing up stans designs.The resonant cell only used milliamps.Your talking about the demo cell current at 4.4 amps.Your making the same mistakes as alot of people,mixing up designs and circuits.Anything metalic for a core material will change the inductance, no matter how small the core is.I haven't tried to figure out the number of turns Stan used on the coils.It really doesn't seem to matter.More turns ,more voltage potential.
Alan,my pwm doesn't have adjustable duty cycle.Thats something I will be changing.More testing needs to be done when I get back into it soon. Don