ali

here is a screenshot of the results

filename should be 4538...ignore filename...contents are correct

just spent the last 4 hours trying to simulate dons post of the figure 6 schematic in multisim
No Luck, it does not do what we want...maybe those NOR chips were XNOR or AND on the input???

anyway i got to thinking on this and multisim has a retriggerable monostable multivubrator in the CD series
CD4058

so i found that if we want an output that has a gate of variable width inside of a variable duty cycle from the accelerator we cant just trigger the 74122 or 74123 with the high logic signal it doesnt work...

but this circuit here does work, only change is get rid of those logic components on the input and we keep the safety pull ring to turn it off in emergency...but the most important part is figure 12

if we feed this CD 4058 with one signal from the figure 12 ckt to trigger the gate at say 5khz
and then send that 5 khz to the figure 2 manual PWM
we get what we want

an accelerator pedal on top of a gate that is manually adjustable on top of a PLL frequency just like the normal output of fig 6 ties into the pll ay point "A"

here it is:

figure 4 seems to have 4 op amps installed on the VIC CARD instead of 3, that leads me to believe that figure 3 was located elsewhere, on another controller...here is a multisim circuit of whats on the VIC CARD...exactly (almost) like the circuit on FIGURE 4 sheet.

No I've never seen any of the circuits in the GMS. It's definitely not a 555, for one he shows in the schematic that there are 10 connections, a 555 only  has 8 pins. The reason for the logic gates and the capacitor are to convert the duty cycles of the incoming puts to a very short pulse duty cycle to be used as a trigger for the 74122 chip. Once I finish putting this circuit together, I will show u guys what I'm talking about.

@ Tony:
Thanks for being understanding...ive been trying to figure this control circuit out for a year or more...
heres a question to consider based on the diagram attached...

If Fig. (12 or 9xB) is the clock that times the whole circuit... that goes to point "G"
Point "G" is the Figure 2  "GAS PEDAL" mechanical PWM

Stans design used a variable duty cycle to provide more or less hydroxy gas based on throttle position

point "G" becomes a 10% - 90% duty cycle at a given clock frequency which is sent to TWO outputs ( M & M1 )

"M" goes on the top side of the VIC through fig 3 & 4 to create a variable voltage which is adjustable to provide a minimum idle speed at the low end and a maximum 12 volts at the passing speed / full throttle / 90% duty cycle setting

"M1" goes to the bottom side through figure 6 and on to PLL / resonant scanner / pulse pickup / and the result goes to the bottom or "Ground" / "negative" side of the VIC coil through Fig 5


Here is the question... if the clock frequency at the input of figure2 is fixed and the pulse width is variable at the same clock frequency... wont the trigger from the NORs on fig6 stay at a fixed frequency regardless of the throttle position

therefore wont the gating be fixed?

I believe the gating of the signal going into or stepping on the PLL frequency needed to follow the figure 2 Pulse Width to provide a Hydrogen output range from idle to full W.O.T. ( wide open throttle)

SO the way i see it is this, there are 3 parameters at work in the system:

1. variable positive voltage tied to gas pedal from 1, 2, or 3 volts to 12 ( based on idle requirement) to top of coil

2. resonant frequency based on pulse pickup being generated and sent to figure 5 via PLL ( not controlled by figure 2)

3. additional gas output control based on variable GATING that "steps on " the PLL signal sent to figure 5 that is determined by Figure 2 PWM or throttle position

do i have the flow chart figured out correctly?
( see attached)

Quote from: hydrogenmask on March 19, 2011, 15:09:08 pm

very nice work tony !
 
are the cores custoum made?
I think that figs.2,3,6,11,12 are all part of the GMS unit(dashboard box)
 
I am trieng to figure out what the A26 chip of the "gated pulse frequency generator" (fig6) might be. Any ideas ?
 
hydrogenmask

Yea the IC for the "Gated Pulse Frequency Generator" is a 74122 =)

Have you seen the circuits inside the dashboard GMS unit?

DOnt think the 74122 is correct its most likely a 555
also the schematic is wrong, those "AND" logic pairs should actually be XNORS it was drawn wrong... but in all actuality thesse can be omitted
because theres no real need for them and the capacitor between wont allow them to work

i believe this was some patent misdirection to keep the technology protected

Hey Ali, try this one out. only half the feedback coil was being used.


why did you add the cap?

what was the reason for the am wave ?

on the real VIC coil, do we need the 5 volts center tap or even the 5 volts at all?

Figure 9 Pulser Indicator circuit verified using multisim 11
See attached circuit:
enjoy
(@ don, @ tony...hope it meets with your approval)

Yes sir, Thats the cap Im talking about also. if you close you can see that its a 10uF 25v polarized cap. The scanning circuit has an on-time of 3 sec. and an off-time of 1.5 sec. this will cause a modulation of the frequency and coincides with what Puharich says about the voltage modulation of 3 sec. or 0.125 Hz - 0.250 Hz, which is the Nuclear Magnetic Relaxation time of the water molecule. The 1.5 sec. off-time allows the water molecule to recover. Heres what i have together as of right now, one photo has the component values and the other has the bottom traces overlaying the component side of the board.

i thought the scanning time was required to be very fast so that the PLL could find the resonant frequency that gives lowest amps and that frequency was related to a range of frequencies between 1 and 10 khz, therefore the VCO (voltage controlled oscillator) needed a range of voltages to scan for a lock frequency, this is why the waveform from the scanning circuit has a ramp voltage from 2.5 volts to 5 volts and then back again until the PLL locks, it should happen as fast as possible because the cell may go out of resonance within 1/2 second.

the scan time has nothing to do with the nuclear magnetic relaxation time of water and everything to do with the voltages required at pin 9 of the 4046 chip
Am i wrong?

Here is the complete figure 8 as verified by signal analysis in Multisim based on components from the photo
( it puts out the required sawtooth waveform... accept NO substitutes... this part is LOCKED DOWN folks!)
Yahoo !

working on a complete multisim circuit for Vic Card photo will post work in progress soon

here are some of the circuits that I have almost complete and ready for testing. Pictured below are the Resonant Scanning Circuit and Pulse Indicator Circuit.

would you mind posting the schematics for those boards??

Quote

I made the core out of a microwave transformer core..

IMHO this core is not really usable for this application, for the laminations are way too thick (as it's designed for 60Hz). You will get too much eddy currents at the proposed frequencies and therefore will have too many losses, which will result in a small q-factor.
As I already mentioned before: If you wanna take a laminated steel core, the laminations have to be thin. Just look at Stans steel-core: There the laminations were also thin. But I think also, that a Ferrite-core is probably a simpler solution. The main difference is, that the steel-core has much higher saturation values, but a smaller permeability, whereas for ferrite, this is usually the opposite (high permeability, low saturation)

Quote

How much energy in watts  per hour (or joules) needed to spend to convert 1 liter of water in gas? I am interested in the efficiency of the cell.

Ahh, BTW. I just remembered, that Stan himself calculated the efficiency of his early cell in the independent evaluation report. There he calculated something like an efficiency factor of 300 times (input vs output).

Quote

I used 3 4007 diodes in parallel and work fine in the vic...

I absolutely wouldn't recommend using any 1N400X in any power switching supply. They are intended mainly as rectifier diodes for mains applications (60Hz). Their switching time is about 1000 times slower than that of a MUR.
Why not using UF400X diodes, if money is short. They are also quite cheap, and much faster. Or did you already use the UF-types?


EDIT:

I finally found now some time to have another short look at the original VIC-board.
A few things are interesting.
First, it is really exactly the circuit from the patent (WO9207861).
Second. The designer of the board made a layout error. The primary driving circuit, as it is in the patent is correct. But the board layout is wrong. The two resistors for the first transistor are connected the wrong way around. Therefore Stan had to wire the VCO-Out directly to the correct resistor.

I already thought it very strange, that Stan added these dividers for the PLL-Signal in the patent circuit. As this wouldn't make any sense, to divide the signal here, as the pickup-signal and the driving signal have the same frequency. But as can be seen on the original board, he didn't use them. He just used them to divide the signal down for display on the LED, for nothing else...
One thing is still strange. Namely that he wired the neg of the primary over an RC-damper to the comparator input.  First I thought he wired it to the VCO-out, but it only looks like that on first sight (quite hard to differentiate the two blue wires).
Finally one could say, that today, one would really just replace almost the complete board by just one microcontroller. Only the Pickup-Signal, and some driving circuitry would be additionally needed. The driving of the primary one would most probably do with a FET and some special FET-driver-IC (much simpler, than this cascade of transistors).

SIR,
from my analysis of the control circuits figs 2 thru 11, i have used multisim student edition to try and determine the component values that were in the circuits... i came up with some very interesting scope simulations at the WFC.

the figs 2, 3 &4 would take the variable duty cycle input from the accelerator and produce a variable voltage from a configurable low value for idle , say 3 volts to a maximum of say 12 volts across the range of the throttle pedal. this was done using a darlington pair at the high side of the primary

the clock cycle was the interesting part as to how it timed the high side of the coil as well as the low side thru the pll

the result was the q9 (tip120) would fire at the same time as the darlington pair on the positive side of the coil...made for some interesting waveforms...i have those files if anyone would like to view them...

could never really figure out the scanning circuit.... got a triangle waveform that would give a gradually increasing voltage fed to the vco of the 4046 to vary the lock in frequencies...

also the pickup circuit could be eiether a opamp or a comparator... i guess the comparator would stabilize the signal to something useable for pin 14 of the PLL chip

any thoughts?

Thank you Don! That will make it a lot easier to build this!

What about Figure 2: Gas feedback control circuit,
Figure 11: Digital Control Means, I think this is inside the laser accelerator?


Do you have any pictures of the cards inside that GMS unit?

Here is a better version of Stan's Figure 2 circuit
(he did some safety stuff with inverted optoschmitt inputs in case a led burnt out the engine wouldnt race... but this version simplifies that with only one multiplexor)
enjoy

It works!

The 220 ohm resistors were like I said wired across the primary coil(parallel).A friend had talked with a coil manufacture,and they told him that 10.5 ohms coil would get hot,then he asked them what would happen if you were to wire a 220 ohm resistor across it,and he stated that it would run cooler.Not my words.
 
As for the NVR1550 diode,there is actually a MUR1550 and a MUR1560.The first is a 500 volt,and the second was a 600 volt.
 
Kali,as for your explaination of the voltage step up up 1:5 with 12 volts in and 60 volts out was a little confusing.But I believe I understand what you were getting at.
 
You are stating that if you apply 12 volts to the primary coil,with a step up ratio of 1:5 you will then get 60 volts out to the blocking diode.Now in my testing of my coils,I have a step up ratio of 1:10 or as I would put it 10:1.So if I apply 12 volts to my primary I should get 120 volts out of the secondary.Right?
 
Well when I test the output of my secondary without any load on it,I get a much greater step up than 10:1.I've seen several hundred volts.No just maybe that is what Stan is hoping for with his set up.Maybe because we are restricting amps with the choke coils that this high voltage from our secondary is able to stay high,because of the very low load.
 
Under normal step up coils we are appling loads to the secondary output which pulls the voltage down to the actual ratio of the steup.So just maybe with the chokes restricting the amps,we are able to keep this higher voltage than the stepup ratio produces.Maybe it has something to do with the coils all being on the same core that allows  this greater voltage to be produce.
 
Now again with my coil set up,of 100 turns primary,1000 turns secondary,and 2000 turns chokes,I have seen between 1kv-2kv at the cell.It it hasn't had any ill effect on the blocking diode.And my diode is the same rating as a MUR1560.
 
Thats some of my thoughts on this matter as I have seen it with my own testing.
Don

look at it this way... 1000 secondary plus 2000 choke 1 plus 2000 choke 2 equals 5000 turns since they are connected in series
therefore the 5000 / 100 primary = 50 to 1 ratio step up
therefore 12 volts in equals 600 volts out !
MUR 1560 !

 and maybe the 2 for 1 pulses makes the final voltage @ 1200 volts average!

my meter is a VC6243

I get 130 uF with rain water, measuring just one tube on my tubular array, 0.0625 gap

i'm just wondering what kind of inductance to look for, to target 10,000 hz resonance

do a google search for "ring core calculator" this program is very useful to find resonance based on any parameters like frequency and inductance to find cap or cap and ind. to find freq. res etc...

the menu bar at the top of the program has this helpful utility to find resonant circuit values!
hope this helps...

There are 3 differential valves: One for ionized air, one for EGR, and the other is for filtered air from the filter housing.
 
A fitting below the throttle body provides engine vacuum, this is what pulls the different gasses into the engine through the differential solenoids (needle type valves).
 
It think the butterfly valve was also modified since water disassociation releases enough oxygen to provide a stoichiometric ratio. Stan states in the TB that the 2:1 stoichiometric ratio is maintained throughout the engines operating range.

Im referring to the 125 psi pump required to send the air, exhaust and water to the injector... the final embodiment of his design

apparently he mixed ionized air and exhaust gases with water mist in some sort of mixing chamber , then sent the entire mixture at 125 PSI to the injector to finalize the charging and firing of the mix.

at first he had a canadian patent where the three elments were sent to the injector via 3 different hoses and mixed in the injector...later he developed a better version where the mixing manifold was used before the fuel was sent to each injector

i can see how a 125 psi pump was required to get good flow based on injector solenoid pulse width.... there were 4 solenoids, one for each cylinder, and they obviously were controlled by the 4 LED s in the distributor... but how do you get the ambient (gas processor) ionized air into the mixing chamber

any ideas on the kind of pump used? or the configuration?

Just a note for everyone who purchased my pictures and notes,Once you recieve your order,I will delete all of your personal info from my computer.I won't keep anyones info after  I know you got what you order.I also won't mention or give out anyones names or info.I have everyones shipping labels made up,and just need to get them to the post office tomorrow.
Don

thanks don... looking forward to the DVD
What else can you tell us about whats on it that we would be thrilled to know about?

Here is Figure 12, ready to go

notice the cool graphics...seems this circuit likes to divide the outputs by two !

good for one simple pc board including a 7805 voltage regulator.

moving right along...

if the gating is the 4.55111 hertz harmonic of the earths natural period as in a post below about stans secret?

or gating is related to mechanical resonance that continues even after the signal is removed...

or the other idea is that the PLL and the resonant circuit between the wfc and the inductor is designed to keep the voltage high with a moving target ( capacitor value is always changing)

 BUT the gating is tuned to the step charging... the 5 cycles required to step charge a capacitor and turn it off before the ARC of Current shoots across the gap

Hi,

" how can voltage perform in dead short with no amps"

If we charge the plates (electrostatic) then the electrons path in the water molecule would elongate.
If this path is wide enough then the covalent bonding of water molecule snaps and the atoms would regain free floating electrons to be stabilized.
This splitting or pulling apart is possible because the water molecule has low bonding forces.
Voltage can preform work it has split the water molecule with no current. Current is restricted, it can not flow, because the breakdown is prevented we are having high resistance in the chokes on resonance.

If this restricting is not possible, the current can flow and we couldn't elongate the electron path enough. They slip through our capacitor (flowing) to the other side and the process repeats.

Br,
Webmug

exactly

THE RESONANT CIRCUIT IS NOT A PARALLEL OR SERIES TANK CIRCUIT LIKE IN THE COMMON AC TANK CIRCUITS

WE ARE NOT USING AC VOLTAGE

LOOK AT THE FORMULA IN THE FIRST FEW PAGES OF STANS FULL DATA PATENT FOR RESONANCE

THE SECRET IS THAT THE CHOKES MUST BE WOUND WITH THE WIRES SEPERATED AND WITH A LAYER OF PLASTIC TRANSFORMER TAPE BETWEEN EACH LAYER TO INCREASE THE CAPACITANCE OF THE CHOKE

SO THE FREQUENCY MUST RESONATE WITH THE ACTUAL CHOKE COIL'S CAPACITANCE AND INDUCTANCE TO CAUSE HIGH VOLTS AND LOW AMPS, ALMOST ZERO AMPS...THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE RESONANT SCANNING CIRCUIT. IT FOLLOWS THE CHOKE COILS RESONANT FREQUENCY BASED ON FEEDBACK FROM THE PICKUP COIL

THE REASON THE SCANNING CIRCUIT IS USED IS BECAUSE THE FREQUENCY WILL GO OUT OF RESONANCE AS HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN ARE DISASSOCIATED IN THE TUBE SET AT VARIOUS LEVELS AND AMOUNTS

THE VIC COIL IS DESIGNED WITH ITS ASSOCIATED CIRCUITRY TO KEEP THE CHOKES AT MAXIMUM AMP RESTRICTION WHILE ADAPTING TO THE NEEDS OF THE WATER FUEL CELL

THEREFORE BOTH CHOKES MUST MATCH EXACTLY

newer technology explained:

LATER ON STAN WENT TO A DIFFERENT STYLE OF VIC COIL (slotted tesla style windings) BECAUSE HE WAS PROCESSING A WATER VAPOR, THE DEMAND DID NOT CHANGE IN THE INJECTOR AS IT DOES IN THE WATER FUEL CELL TUBES BECAUSE WATER VAPOR / GAS HAS A FIXED CAPACITANCE IN THE INJECTOR, no need to follow the resonance of the chokes...

ALSO THE DISTROBUTOR HAD NO ROTOR AND NO Traditional ignition coil

the injector solenoids were timed to deliver fuel just before top dead center at 125 psi through a check valve, the newer vic coil delivered a pulse train to the injector after top dead center and the water fuel exploded instantly


HERE IS MY LATEST VIC CIRCUIT SIMPLIFIED.....USE PCB EXPRESS SOFTWARE TO VIEW

actually this question is to get dynodons response:

is it possible that the secondary was less turns than the primary?

Steve meyer says in a radio interview that it only takes 11 volts to pull an electron from hydrogen.

if the primary has 60 volts at 600 turns, and the secondary has 20 volts at 200 turns, then 1 amp at the primary should equal 10 amps at the secondary

now with such a strong 20 volt signal and such a high amperage on the secondary, the magnetic flux is greatly increased in the core and the amp restriction is very high in the chokes at resonance...with the 20 volts passing through to the wfc waveguide..and a very high magnetic field at the chokes... a very strong opposition to current flow past the chokes...

thinking outside the box... were the drawings misleading?

i really dont think so, but its worth a try.
any comments from others ?