Steve

Hi all,
I'm interrested in HHO for about 3 years, I did several experiments and it's the first time I built dave lawton circuit and it worked for me verry good with impressive results, I played on turns on the chokes using one wire at both, I don't remember the turns I did cause I was lost on couting them lol, but got my cell running a while, after I turned it off I saw that the cell still producing a little amount of gas, I took out the wires connected took the cell out of my room to clean it, before changing water used, the production stayed there, I don't know what happened, I didn't trust it but it's real I still gotting a smal production and the plates were polarizate, using the multimeter I found (+) 0 V once I reverse the multimeter's wires it gave me (-) 0V and the production still there (http://www.ionizationx.com/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif).
maybe there is an explanation for that
PS: didn't use the VIC, only some turns (btween 58 and 62 turns) one wire on both chokes. Tap water 2 smal plates.
I'm verry happy to share my experiments with you guys.
Cya soon for more results and details, still working on it on my free time.

Hi and welcome to ionizationx :-)

Yes, its normal that a cell is making gas after the power is cut off.
Go have a look in the project section and i think you will read lots of info on the dave circuit.
Most users here are already passed the dave circuit and trying to get the Meyer circuit working.
You are welcome to join in, if you like.

br
Steve

Tesla Igniting surface of Water with High Frequency


I think this shows very crude how meyer's system will work.
finetuning it will give constant flames

Alan,
 
This video is amazing! The flames are incredible. Its hydrogen!
The amount is incredible too, for just 120watts...
Do you have more info on this?
 
Steve
 

Thanks Tad for writing some answers here.
You know as well as I that there are many people proclaiming stuff that isnt true.
I ll guess that Dankie had a bad feeling because of those people.
 I understand from your email and your posting that you are not the biggest
fan of that HV setup.
But, many here are willing to find that out too.

Thanks for telling about the need for resistance.
I read you telling that you did that experiment 12 years ago and that details are difficult to remember.

Am i right, if i resume your details here:

Pulsing 1200v DC or higher
some coils
a resistor in line with wfc
Resonance between coils and WFC? Or is it resonance in the coils?

About JNL, he said he used insulated tubes. Did you use insulated tubes?

br
steve

Ps.

I also do not always listen the mrs...

Ok Tad,

This is what you wrote about your setup:

1. Pulsing circuit or power supply capable of producing 600+ Volts @ 20Khz+ @ 100uA+. My
system was a simple, off the shelf inverter with an input of 12VDC and an output of 1200VAC
@ 20Khz @ 1mA. I then took this circuit and modified the circuit to run at 42.5-43.0Khz. This
was an off-the- shelf inverter sold by Fry's electronics. It is a neon power supply with a very
small bobbin core transformer. Anyone can buy this circuit or one just like it and modify it to
run within the specs I gave you. The hard part is obtaining resonance which takes years of
electronics expertise to do.
2. A small electrolysis cell with the ability to vary distance between conductors.
3. 2 - Chokes, one adjustable, one fixed.
4. One high voltage diode to go in-line with the cathode of the power supply output.
5. Inductance Meter, Capacitance meter, frequency counter/Oscilloscope, and high voltage
probe.

The key to the Meyer process is resonance, and without resonance the system produces no gas.
At 12 watts you see why no gas is produced without resonance. This is a standard LC resonant
circuit in which you MUST (!) match Capacitive reactance with Inductive reactance. This then
creates an LC resonant circuit in which the two legs of the power supply match in frequency
exactly. A Ham calc make the calculation of resonance easy once you know the capacitance of
the cell and the frequency you are driving it at.

Once you have your inductance calculated you
then buy the proper chokes that fall within the inductance range needed. The adjustable one
needs (obviously) to be tunable within a small range, so that when the cell temperature changes
and causes the capacitance of the cell to change, then the inductance can also be changed to
keep the cell in resonance. If your cell has the ability to vary distance between conductors, then
you simply change the distance and thus change the capacitance of the cell rather than changing
the inductance. You must vary one or the other though. I have found since then that the
capacitance of the cell can be changed and works just as well as the inductors being adjusted.
You don't use ANY electrolyte, you don't want ANY amperage at all, only voltage @
resonance.

REPEAT, YOU DON'T NEED ANY CURRENT FLOW, ONLY VOLTAGE!
What I found frustrating is that the cell temperature would change and the system would stop
making gas. In order to keep the system making gas you constantly have to keep the cell in
resonance, and thus you really need the system to be controlled by a processor, that constantly
checks frequency on both legs and then adjusts inductance to keep the cell in resonance. This is
why Stanley move to the other patents where the spark plus type of electrolysis chamber was
used instead of a large cell. +
With the cell running at 1200Volts @ 1mA @ 42.8Khz I found I could make 200LP/H of gas.
Do the math and you will find that this is impossible given our current understanding of
electrolysis. If you scale this equation up you will find that you can make over 20,000LP/H of
gas for 1200Watts. This is easily enough to run most any Internal combustion engine. The
only problem has been keeping the cell in tune. An alternator will easily produce 3000 watts of
power, so this is easily enough to power the car on this system alone. This is how the
Volkswagen Buggy was running around on water only. The car has to wait a minute or two
before he stored enough gas to run the car, then once it was started and running it would make
enough gas to run the car at up to 60MPH. I never saw this car run personally, but I have two
people that went to two showings and both said it worked and they verified there was no
gasoline on board.

I have here a nice small off-the- shelf inverter sold by Fry's electronics. without load it produces 7kv
See picture!
I do have a HV probe for my scope as well.
And i have tons of Stainless tubes and plates. So i can do whatever i can here.

1.: Is it 42khz a must?
2.: what type of chokes must it be? Please size and turns and wire thickness.
3.: Did you hookup the diode up to the choke, like Stan did? Actually you made a half rectification of the AC voltage from the inverter trafo?
4.: What gapspace between inductors?
5.: any insulation needed for inductors? Why didnt you get a deadshort condition between the 2 legs of the trafo?
6.: I understand LC. But are the inductorplates/tubes the C? And if so, how do you calculate the C. If i hookup my C meter i measure a leaking capacitor. So at the end i cannot say exactly what the capacitance is...How did you measure yours?
7.: Is the end goal a charging from chokes to cell and back. Is that the resonance we are looking for? A DC resonance system?

Hope you want to provide us with this info.

br
Steve

Well, i do hope so.
Tad doesnt respond at all.

br
steve

This thread needed bumped back to the top.

Since there is no tubes or plates, what shape are the wires formed?

I've spent most of the day today wondering and searching the net for what would be better than concentric tubes to shape the electric field.

I downloaded the video off youtube of ddanvos(? spelling) before it was removed and have watched it a lot.  That setup was producing massive amounts of bubbles and the interesting thing was what looked like the bubbles weren't just rising to the top, some were circulating. 

I think he was using the spark gap for creating high voltage pulses instead of just a straight HV potential.

It also looks like the bubbles come from something surrounding the 2 electrode wires.  My belief is this is shaping the high voltage field.  The emanating voltage field is somewhat similar in theory to a magnetic field, so I believe it can be shaped.

I don't know how or if I can post the video, it is a flash video and the .flv extension isn't included in the allowed file types for attachments.  I will try and see if it works when I post this.  It didn't work.

Mikemongo

Mike , i added the FLV format, to be uploaded to this forum.
At this moment, i allow files of maximum 20mb.
Is that enough for your file?

br
Steve

Quote from: stevie1001 on September 17, 2008, 11:03:41 am

Hi,

Well, there is always a first for everything.
And here are the first bubles of a working HV water fracturing setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmm2n2OWoHY&feature=user

Br
Steve

ps
sorry for the noice....

So in theory, you could could hook up multiple cells and not draw more current off the primary of the step up transformer?

Mikemongo

yes, you are right with that conclusion.

br
steve

Proof of concept!!!. Try using super corona dope recommende by HMR. It works a lot better. Slowly we are putting the bits and pieces together. The dope has a dielectric strength of 4100V/mil compared to the 500v/mil provided by delrin. The inner tube has to be completely insulated inside and outside.

Liquid tape has DS of 1400V/mil but it did not work for me. Super corona dope worked right away.
I will have to buy a gallon of it before the MIB bans it.

Hahahahaha, very good!

br
Steve

Based on what i know and learned, the used material should be glass as high resistance dielectric...

Please have a look and tell me what you think...

Hi guys  well found this post so if I may put in my 2bob’s worth

As you have seen from my post on Ravi’s tube cell, 20yrs ago I was in a group Climate Technology Solutions our group tried all and we had our own experts on HHO, and high qualified engineer electrical, electronic and mechanical.
Our conclusion that you could never generate enough HHO on board to run a car, and we even tried a small generator. There was KOH used as well this made a big difference.
I had some large success with a round plate cell, so I continued on my way with my own electrolysis experiments.
This led to new found discoveries you could use piss as an electrolyte why because of many reason, and a little salt does the same.
You will not break water good quality or even worse distilled water with standard electrolysis using two pieces of metal of the same type, SS, polishing it will not help, it will form its own protective shield coating any way. Then the roughing it up with fine sand, wet and dry whatever will make it worse. Bob B said to do this to create find ridges to give more surface area.
Now the cell is a capacitor but a non-polarised capacitor, a the same as used in some radio tubes set. radio Valves in my book, or on ac motors most times a start capacitor.
So now you can look at the cell another way as I always have done.
The frequency of water well I have two close ones one I worked out to be  3,780,574,537,611.2 hz or 3.78terahz  how did I get this by multiplying the resonate  F of hydrogen and oxygen as at a frequency when they were both harmonically in balance 
1420.405700hz  (hydrogen) x 2661.616 (oxygen)
now I also have found others, it vibrate from 51 – 116 Terahz.
 
So the best that you can do is this, you need to have a tank circuit coil and cell in parallel,
The negative tube or plate, SS the other need to have a coating plated on it, something like palladium, there is another cannot think of it.
You will need the tube or if you are using more than one tube and connect them all in parallel remember that the capacitance will add up and the working voltage will be lowered.
You will have to measure them all connected and in the solution.
Then wind the coil to get a resonant Frequency  XL = XC  then the resistance need to be real small so use large wire. Better still use high frequency wire it is fine stranded. Or use several strands of winding wire twisted together then wind you coil with that the LCD meter is a good tool. Ok will wait for your comments    will tell you  why a tank circuit and the danger.
 

Well, tank circuits have very high current flow during short periodes....
That can be dangerous

I don't mean to be negative, but from my experiments with insulated electrodes, the water is more like a conductor rather than a dielectric. the material used to insulate the electrodes is the dielectric

Ok, i think we agree on that, but the plates/tubes/electrodes are working as a cap.
What woul happens if you can pull electrons from the water in the discharge cycle?

br
Steve

Yes CN,

That also shows some good results too.
Any suggestions on how to pull 29 inches of vacuum?

Br
Steve

Ok,

A new topic about pulling vacuum on a Waterfuelcell.
here is a link about a person who shows how he did it and he got lots of gas.
The question is if this gas is HHO with or without watervapour.
The results are very good.
He preheated the water till 76 degrees Celcius and then he put the vacuum on it.
The vacuum lowers the boiling point of water, so it vapourizes.



Lets followe this techic and see what it can bring towards gasproduction numbers.

br
Steve

Quote from: Steve on February 12, 2010, 14:03:03 pm

The theory on pulsed electrolysis:

This, you all can test.
Take a waterfuelcell and hook it up to a pulsing circuit (even Dankie's circuit would work... )
The whole idea is that you get more amps into the wfc compared towards strait DC.
So how is that gonna happen?

Set your circuit on like 160Hz. duty of 40 or 50%
Put an ampmeter in serie with your wfc.
Now, measure the amp pulses. If you look carefull, you will notice that you see high amp pulses (example 10 amps by 10V)
If you compare that with strait DC on 10V, you will see a lower amperage, like 6 amps.

That is the theory i could find on this, sofar. I do see this effect and it is explanable.


regards
Steve

But if you have 50% dutycycle that's as effective as 5 Amps DC. 10Amps * 0,5 = 5A effective

Yes, for sure, because you use half of the time the power.
But....take 2 wfc's and pulse them both. First the first and then the seconds.
At the end you will have 1 wfc always on, with higher amps in, then the single wfc setup with strait dc, you understand?

Dankie, if you use a low frequency, like 10 till 100hz you will be able to read the amps of your meter. Any lab powersupply can show you that or multimeter.

The advantage of a pulsed setup is that you will have less heat and a better quality HHO...
The negative side is that you need twice the electrodes and twice the electronics to have the same or better gas output...


Steve

The theory on pulsed electrolysis:

This, you all can test.
Take a waterfuelcell and hook it up to a pulsing circuit (even Dankie's circuit would work... )
The whole idea is that you get more amps into the wfc compared towards strait DC.
So how is that gonna happen?

Set your circuit on like 160Hz. duty of 40 or 50%
Put an ampmeter in serie with your wfc.
Now, measure the amp pulses. If you look carefull, you will notice that you see high amp pulses (example 10 amps by 10V)
If you compare that with strait DC on 10V, you will see a lower amperage, like 6 amps.

That is the theory i could find on this, sofar. I do see this effect and it is explanable.


regards
Steve

Hi CarbedNotch,
 
Following on our conversation on waveforms, i have this patent for you.
It claims that a sertain pulseform is more efficient.
I did a re calc on the figures and i came on a 25% duty on a 5khz puls.
 
Hope this helps
 
Steve

Page 58....

Hi,

Found this.
It talks about slowing the protons down so it might be easier to break down molecules of water on a frequency of 2025hz.

Steve

Thats a new led color!
In Stanley Meyers research, he spoke of lasers. Red lasers.....
Here is a link that Electronoob send me earlier..
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/215648758_Enhancement_of_hydrogen_using_green_laser_from_plasma_electrolysis_of_water

Have a look and say what you think....

cheers