Steve

Quote from: Steve on July 31, 2014, 21:02:13 pm

Secondary 3000-3200 turns, wire resistance measured between 70-75 ohms between the three coils (2 chokes and secondary)

So the secondairy is ca 3000 turns and also the chokes have 3000 turns each...............
Lots of henrys....lots of resistance....

i bought half kilogram of 29 wag wire.. it has 211ohms resistance total

so you saying the resistances sums than in series right so should be a half kilogram of 29awg wire in the vic at least for the chokes and secondary,,

i just finished constructing the oscillator to find out proprieties of the water,,,

it works but i had to do a modification of the circuit i imagined... here it goes with the components,,,
again the original thread discussing it is,,,

http://hereticalbuilders.com/showthread.php?t=506

I hope there is someone registered to the heretical builders to get the circuit from busi to compare with mine to see if its correct,,, the registration for that forum is over,,,

ill guess 0.5kg of wire it is....
Ron?

Here's the resistance values that I took from the coils with a Fluke meter.
Primary-10.5 ohms
Secondary and chokes-70-75 ohms
Feedback-11.5 ohms

according to Dynodon...

Secondary 3000-3200 turns, wire resistance measured between 70-75 ohms between the three coils (2 chokes and secondary)

So the secondairy is ca 3000 turns and also the chokes have 3000 turns each...............
Lots of henrys....lots of resistance....

Steve i have only one regard about your flyback idea, the flyback generates high voltage during the pulse off, while stan says that diode stays like a switch in a open position during pulse off or i´m confusing it?

except your talking about having the chokes to receive the pulse... correct?

the secondairy coil discharges into the 3000 windings choke coils.....

I just got the other day some 220ohm 5w resistors
and some 29awg wire..

Steve do you remember how many turns we were guessing there was in the vics?

if i remember well maybe over 2000 turns for each coil and 600 for the primary isn´t it?

Please read my previous posts in this topic.
I followe Dons measurements. Primary ca 600 windings aka 10.5 ohms....
In the pictures you also find the driver of Stan for the vic. It has a diode over the primary.
No resistor.
However, maybe both might work.....

Thanks R.Walker,

I was trying to do that messing up with the coupling but is much harder...

Incredible

could you explain a little about what you believe is the effect of using this bucking fields?

Just another silly question... the size of the cell matters? I mean you can get the same effect on the 9 tube cell and at the resonant cavity setup with the same trafo setup? just varying the signal frequency and voltage level of both transformers?

Of course i´m assuming you are using two transformers to adjust the relation between the voltages in the secondary and chokes separately

I´m sure you drank the same water we did =)

regard that the saying in this drawing is:

5) Secondary coil winding (8 ) resonant charging chokes (9/12) of similar size and length sets up "Electron Bounce " zone by which the displaced electrons forms copper ions moving and taking on a positive electrical charge entering into resonant charging choke (9); Whereas, the clustering of electrons at resonant charging choke (12) forms negative voltage polarity of opposite electrical polarity intensity.

He, Fabio,

Electron bouncing now finally creates a picture in my brain........ yes the gray thing existing from 2 cells in my head....

I use a little different concept than Stan did, but still does the same thing. I put two coils on one set of cores and two coils on another set of cores.

Ok, Ron.
The 2 core sets are not hooked up to eachother?
Stacked on top of each other?

Cheers!

Got one more shot, after tuning my coils a little more today, I got the full potential out of my VIC. Been running now fro over an hour now and everything is still running cold coils, transistors, ect. I think I will quit while I'm ahead. LOL

Ron,

What kind of core are you using?
Can i buy it somewhere?

Steve

Stans core of the VIC dimensions:
Single u core = 0,27cm thick by 6,25cm wide by 6,92cm high by 1,07cm diam.....
2 u cores make 1 set for the VIC
Material: probably ferrite.
permeability +- 2,500

Here is something I'll share with everyone. Work toward this. It's only pulling .02 - .01ma  at 14 volts from the power supply to get this voltage.

nice data....
thanks for sharing
impressive from such a low power..

http://lists.contesting.com/_amps/2005-04/msg00352.html

Here are all the pictures i have of the VIC's of Meyer.
All are from Don Gable. Including his notes.

Steve

Donald and Andy,

I do not suggest that electrons travel through a liquid, however, there is a part of the liquid who in in contact with the electrodes.

Accoording to the Helmholtz double layer theory there is no electron exchange at all.

Article:
The electrical double layer
The model which gave rise to the term 'electrical double layer' was first put forward in the 1850's by Helmholtz. In this model he assumed that no electron transfer reactions occur at the electrode and the solution is composed only of electrolyte. The interactions between the ions in solution and the electrode surface were asssumed to be electrostatic in nature and resulted from the fact that the electrode holds a charge density (qm)which arises from either an excess or deficiency of electrons at the electrode surface. In order for the interface to remain neutral the charge held on the electrode is balanced by the redistribution of ions close to the electrode surface.

The attracted ions are assumed to approach the electrode surface and form a layer balancing the electrode charge, the distance of approach is assumed to be limited to the radius of the ion and a single sphere of solvation round each ion. The overall result is two layers of charge (the double layer) and a potential drop which is confined to only this region (termed the outer Helmholtz Plane, OHP) in solution. The result is absolutely analogous to an electrical capacitor which has two plates of charge separated by some distance (d)

with the potential drop occurring in a linear manner between the two plates. It is perhaps no surprise that when impedance analysis is performed on electrochemical systems the response due to the electrolyte redistribution is modelled in terms of capacitative elements.
The model of Helmholtz while providing a basis for rationalising the behaviour of this region does not account for many factors such as, diffusion/mixing in solution, the possibility of absorption on to the surface and the interaction between solvent dipole moments and the electrode. A later model put forward by Stern begins to address some of these limitations

now the ions are assumed to be able to move in solution and so the electrostatic interactions are in competition with Brownian motion. The result is still a region close to the electrode surface (100x10-10 m) containing an excess of one type of ion but now the potential drop occurs over the region called the diffuse layer.
Many modifications and improvements have been made to these early models with the latest approaches using numerical modelling to follow the redistribution effects as the electrode potential is varied.

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/Chemistry/Electrochemis/Electrochemical/ElectricalDouble/ElectricalDouble.htm

The issue is that if you read about Helmholtz layers and the fact that Puharich also refers to Helmholtz, that Stan Meyer theory on the EEC at least is not applicable towards the "electrolysis" proces.
Maybe EEC is only possible with gasses.

Steve

First thing you need is an insulated cell such that the water can not come in contact with any ground, only the pos and neg connections can touch the water.

Second thing you need it a resistive load, like a light bulb, and a *positive* voltage source

Third, you need an alternating pulse circuit that will pulse the cell with a 50% duty cycle, and your *positive* voltage source with the other 50%

Fourth, the Positive tube in your cell is connected to the load and the load to the positive voltage source, this means that your positive tube, in connection with the water, becomes "ground" or an "electron source" to power your light bulb on every alternating pulse

Fifth, you need free electrons in your water bath to be pulled out, or the light bulb wont light up

You sound very convincing. Have you tried such a setup?

Hi,

A major part of the Stan Meyer theory is based on extracting electrons.
We agree on the fact that current in water is carried NOT by electrons.
One of the open questions is if electrons are freed in the electrolysis proces.
Lets assume that electrons are freed during this proces and that there are free electrons as well in the water.

Electrons are conducted by metal, like SS.

The electrons from the wires and tranformer flow till the SS electrodes and there
they stop......passing the current over to the ions/atoms.
Looks like the electrodes behave like a "current door" function.
If there are electrons freed in the water, then it should be at the electrodes, it think, because there is where the hydrogen and oxygen are produced. With a pulsing dc it should be possible to extract electrons from the waterbath in the downtime of the circuit. The door opens back towards another circuit where the charge of the ions/atoms "pushes" the electrons from the water back into the electrodes and EEC circuit. The question is if it is possible to do such thing.

Question:
What would happens if we take out electrons from the waterbath with the water?
Is less re-combining the result? Less particles in the water, so less friction=heat?
Better efficiency?


Steve

Hello guys,

I discovered another mean for resonance... in quantum physics the electrons that bounds the molecules together move from molecule to other molecule all the time and this is also called resonance. Example you have a aromatic Hydrocarbon molecule witch is closed and witch have 3 double bounds and 3 single bounds, the electrons (cloud) in the bounds are known to change position inside the molecule all the time.

I was guessing today if stan was not meaning by resonance only the self ionization of water induced by voltage...


Hi outlawstc

He meant the resistance of the movement of the ion. As water have 10 electrons and all them are bounded there is no free electron to move.

the 78,54 is the dielectric constant, witch dictates the rate of electrons or coulombs of charge it need to hold to build up 1 volt.

The water molecule have 10 electrons and this is the reason why its so polar. As the oxygen aways want electrons this electrons get closer to him actually in its orbit and it leave the hydrogen as tips glued on him.

By holes i wanted to mean that when you have oxygen gas and you ionize it negatively you fill one of this two holes, lets say it start having 9 electrons instead of 8, thus every oxygen would want to link up with one hydrogen. Otherwise what i was trying to say also was that if you could instead ionize it positively lets say taking from it 1 electron making it have 7 instead of 8 electrons, it would like to link with 3 hydrogens, and this would lead to not reform water entirely as you see below.

Example (the extra oxygen come from atmosphere):
If you take 2 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen you have 1 mole of H20    Reforming water normally 18g per mole
If you take 2 moles of hydrogen and 2 moles of oxygen you have 2 moles of OH-  Reforming more water than H2 would normally happen 34g per mole of water
If  you take 3 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen you have 1 mole of H3O+ Reforming less water than H2 would normally happen... 19g per mole of water
Thus i guessed that what meyer intended by re energize the water was actually to allow the water to cool down and by action of the sun and the difference of the charges to bound together and rain again.

More things i learned:

Oxygen love electrons.
Electrons or charge can't stay inside a conductor (tube) always outside. (i was thinking about how the delrin in the outside of the tube could influence in this) didn't concluded nothing yet.
Neutrons exist inside the atoms to keep the protons from "touching"each other. And neutrons can be converted into 1 proton and 1 electron.
Water have a certain +- 5% of deuterium witch is hydrogen with 1 neutron inside.

Stan sometimes talked about doing the opposite of electrolysis.
That self ionisation effect might be the thing.
So Stan must have thought on how to stimulate that effect, is it...

What Sebos tried to say, is that the outer orbit of a single oxygen atom has 6 electrons in orbit and has room for 8.
As long as the oxygen atom has 6 electrons , it will always look/hunt for 2 extra electron, because with 8 electrons it will have a stable state.
See picture.

Steve

Not sure what you mean with creating holes.
IF you use a charge (current), then you talk about electrolysis.
In Stans case, as far as i have understand it, he talks about voltage fields and not about current or charges.
So NO electrons travel towards the wfc.
Because there is no charge traveling thru the water, there will be no alligment of molecule, and so you keep the basic water situation.
Molecule clusters of watermolecules.
Hold together by covalent bondings of the H atoms with O atoms.

Lots of questions.....
No answers yet.

Steve

Well, in Stans patent, which Donald placed here, today, he doesnt talk about the EEC.
Just simple using voltage pulses from 650V till 2000V on a 3 inch tubeset.
The idea of getting HV pulses across a tube in water can only be done if you use very very tiny small pulses. You must stop pulsing as soon as current starts running.
Amps follow volts in a conductor with a 90 degree delay.
So, just use a duty that is around 25%?

Well, if it was all that simple.

Steve

Mr. Outlaw,

Can you specify for me please what you mean with dielectric break down of watermolecules? What happens accoording to your theory in the water?

Steve