Was Stan Being Dishonest About The Charging Chokes???
Started by unknown · · 28 posts · last reply 17 May 2014
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#1 ·
Was Stan being dishonest about the configuration of the charging chokes? I'm questioning this for a couple of reasons. Stan says over and over in his videos that the charging chokes where equal length, but from all my research over the years I don't think he was being totally honest about that aspect.
1) In a lot of Stan's diagrams he shows the L2 (-Ve) choke as a variable choke or "Tuned" choke.
2) As Don showed with the choke measurements taken from Stan's actual VIC transformer, the values were different.
3) Stan also refers to the chokes as "Frequency By-pass Coils".
4) As you can see in the simulation images and actual real-time image, the only way I've been able to get the "Ring" effect is when you use two different value chokes. I've been using a mathematical formula to get the choke values, but I'm not going to go into that aspect right now.
Well just thought I would throw this all out there and see what happens
attachment_13102 attachment_13104 attachment_13106 attachment_13108 meyer tuned choke.jpg sim-1.jpg sim-2.jpg real-time-test.jpg
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#2 ·
One last think I will explain why he called it a "tuning" choke. You have to adjust the inductance of the L2 choke thus adjusting the frequency/phasing so that when the L1 chokes voltage is "LOW", due to the diode half-wave rectifying it, that they line up to give the "ringing" effect. You can see this in the image named "sim-2". -
#3 ·
Good thread Tony,nice to ''see'' you post again here...Don said stan had a motor driven winding machine with the wire feed by hand,so no much precision when winding 2 coils.. -
#4 · date not recorded
What if he was simply not honest at all?
What if the chokes had a function different than proposed?
Meyer used water as dielectric for something thereto because of its natural proprieties.
He was indeed correct in assuming whatever person with the knowledge of the prior art would capable of replicating and improving it.
What i mean is that many hydrogen from water based patents relies its operation around the same principle and each present one aspect at least of the principle in question.
The easy way is to examine the circuit but also what exactly it is doing to water. This will tell you the modifications that you need to make to the circuit in order for it to work.
I guess the difference in choke size is only applicable to fine tune the effect not to determine its operation.
In another aspect it can indeed be determinant if you consider this wiper arm as a mean to ad a coil load to the circuit to increase the power being consumed from the source... -
#5 ·
Hey Tony can you share some paremetrs of the sim you made? Thank you for sharing what you did....I would love to see how that is done and have been trying with limited success .
Are you actualy running the primary straight thru to the positive of a tube set? -
#6 · date not recorded
It may be blasphemy, but I concur.
You get a really good bump when you run in resonance and have a nice differential between the chokes. Example: Freq. 1.591kHz, L1=1.1H, L2=1H, 10nF
I'm not sure what numbers your playing with. I really believe the chokes were not of equal length.
I'm still messing around with the concept.
Warm regards,
Derek
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#7 ·
It may be blasphemy, but I concur.
You get a really good bump when you run in resonance and have a nice differential between the chokes. Example: Freq. 1.591kHz, L1=1.1H, L2=1H, 10nF
I'm not sure what numbers your playing with. I really believe the chokes were not of equal length.
I'm still messing around with the concept.
Warm regards,
Derek
Hi Derek,
We would love to see some motivating pictures of your setup and some scope shots
Steve -
#8 · date not recorded
I was doing a simulation like Tony Woodside. I would love to post some results, but I need to bring it to the realm of practical application like Tony did with his last scope pic.
I do plan to follow up with this and something else that will take more time.
Tony's the best shot right now for questions on this matter.
Warm regards,
Derek -
#9 · date not recorded
We are patience people
Take all the time...
Steve -
#10 · date not recorded
I think you have to have a lot of money to order a large quantity of twisted pair, Stan's tech-brief calls for axially spiraled chokes, secondary and primary, but I found this DIY machine just searching for an alternative:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/805268116/spool-spinner-makes-axially-spiraled-wire-twisted-0
First Ever Videos Showing Working DIY Spiral Spool Spinner Machine in Operation Making Twisted Pair and Winding Onto Bobbin Core.attachment_13470 full_assembly.2.jpeg
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#11 · date not recorded
I prefer side by side over spinning, the same way Tesla did it.
This is getting off topic, enough said.
P.S. If you want to spin the wires, use a common drill (two wires secured in the drill chuck and the other end of the two wires fixed to a secure object/location). -
#12 ·
Stan had another idea. And even Tesla and Stan combined didn't know even half of what you seem to know. -
#13 · date not recorded
Greetings.
Just had a thought to add. Having the two chokes wound on the same core essentially makes them a transformer. As we know with a transformer, the voltage and current between coupled coils are relative. On a 1:1 winding, the voltage and current should be the same across both coils. However at any other ratio one coil will have a higher voltage with a lower current and the other coil will have a higher current with a lower voltage.
What does this mean? This means that 1) there will be a higher or lower voltage across the terminal endpoints connecting to the WFC depending on how it is wired and 2) there will be a higher or lower current across the terminal endpoints connecting to the WFC depending on how it is wired and 3) there may be a power phase difference at both terminals of the WFC.
Point 3) is rather interesting to me. If we are exerting this unsync'd phase approach on the water molecules what would be the effect on them? In theory, shouldn't both sides of the WFC be in sync in order to exert maximum force on the water molecules?
TS -
#14 · date not recorded
Just had another thought after considering my last post a little more.
I often try to perceive electricity flow as water flow to visualize how it reacts in a circuit. Let's do this for a second.
Imagine a container with two pipes connected to it to represent our WFC. However, this container is filled with a mixture of electrons and protons, which are naturally attracted to each other. Now , importantly, we have to remember that this container is filled with a mixture of two distinctly different things, protons and electrons, and that we need two different forces to affect them.
Now, let's say one of the pipes coming off this container is bigger than the other pipe AND this pipe only draws protons (yes I know protons don't move, but this is a concept). A volume of protons is drawn out slowly due to a lower pressure exerted from the larger pipe, dragging its electrons that are naturally attracted to it with it. This naturally represents a higher current and lower voltage in electrical terms.
Then let's say the other pipe coming off this container is smaller than the other AND this pipe only draws the electrons. A volume of electrons is drawn out quickly due to the higher pressure exerted on it by the smaller pipe, pulling against the force coming from the pressure of the larger pipe. This naturally represent a higher voltage and lower current in electrical terms.
Then to top it off, the two pipes are being pulsed at different rates.
With this visualization in mind, what do you suppose would be the net effect on the flow on this container of protons and electrons?
TS -
#15 · date not recorded
QuoteP.S. If you want to spin the wires, use a common drill (two wires secured in the drill chuck and the other end of the two wires fixed to a secure object/location).
That's only going to give you a few feet of twisted wire and then where is that going to get you?
Stan's simple instructions were to twist the wire used in the VIC. Are you able to follow instructions? -
#16 ·
Timeshell, interesting analogy. With the two different wire lengths in the choke, it brings about a Beat Frequency Effect, like the Water Hammer Effect found in water pipes. That's what I think is going on. -
#17 · date not recorded
Timeshell, interesting analogy. With the two different wire lengths in the choke, it brings about a Beat Frequency Effect, like the Water Hammer Effect found in water pipes. That's what I think is going on.
Take a look at the images at this link.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/beat.html
Remind you of anything?
Here's another bug. If the chokes are on the same core, I don't think that they can create differing frequencies. The frequency generated would be dependant on whether the core had a field on it or not. Since both coils would be contributing to the field on the core, the beat frequency would have to be manifest there as the sum of the two frequencies. Only the beat frequency would be present on the WFC.
TS -
#18 · date not recorded
I've been meaning to do some live experiments with this concept. I just finished up with college (today), so I should have the time in the next few weeks.
I'll have to see about that core issue. Thanks,
Warm regards,
Derek
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#19 · date not recorded
I've been meaning to do some live experiments with this concept. I just finished up with college (today), so I should have the time in the next few weeks.
I'll have to see about that core issue. Thanks,
Warm regards,
Derek
That core "issue" may not be an issue at all. It may actually be desired. If you look at Bob Boyce's d9.pdf, he specifically uses the toroid core to combine the frequencies. Stan's core already does this just by having everything on one core. I'm suspecting that was the point was so that the beat frequency was creating there.
I haven't dabbled much lately other than theories and simulations.
TS -
#20 · date not recorded
Hi TS,
I agree here with R18.
That theory is a nice one.
However...
Ions move very slowly...
But maybe i must let electrolysis laws go...
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#21 · date not recorded
Did that have anything to do with the wiper arm mentioned for one of the chokes? -
#22 ·
I had a Lawn Mower that used Points to fire its coil, Accept the coil had 2 secondarys not one. Plug 1 would fire a short time just after Plug 2. I also had a Coil that would fire both plugs at the same time. Anyhow, There is not much information on the net on A double firing coils schematic!
People seem to upload photos of schematics where the coils both are in parallel or fire at the same time, this is not correct. I will Provide here a Real Schematic that I Seen on google images that looked legit.
I fixed my lawn mower by adding 2 car ignition coils to it. There was one set of points, one condenser. I added bother 12volt Primarys in series, and the Secondary coils was wired in series and in parallel.
This way Plug one would fire, Then Plug 2. The delay can be seen with an human eye. The lawn mower would run only one way out of 4 different combinations because the wiring of these coils effected the time that the plugs fired. I can take a video of how I have the coils Wired if you like. At one time i Had the video on youtube to help others that could not find that specific coil.
Explaining this setup isn't easy
Say you have 2 coils boths coils is a ignition coil. Both Contain a Primary coil, Both Contain a secondary. Remember you have a Battery 2. I Hacker, Well he is just that. You have to be a hacker of the Primary coils.
you put the primary coils together in series not parallel. Even though they're 12 volts, you put them in series. This does not run well with the mind. There is 8 ways you can connect 2 coils, there is A number of more ways, (i'm not doing that math) to connect the secondary.
Ones mind does not know this until shown, then it becomes clear. I only covered a Primary setup, Not a Secondary You are using chokes, Think about a double firing coil. I hope this helps motivate someone in some small way....
attachment_13559 attachment_13561 attachment_13563 IMAG0033.jpg Double.jpg IMAG0034.jpg
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#23 · date not recorded
^^^^^^^^^
Wow!
TS -
#24 ·
What is it Timeshell?
Here is something more to ponder at.attachment_13565 IMAG0051 (1).jpg
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#25 ·
If you talk about ignition coils, then i have a similar setup in my shop.
2 iginitioncoils in serie, create like 70kv...
They did that in racecars....
However, i never added diodes like you Hydro...
Maybe something to try, with a one little tubeset?