Stan used AMPS, big time!
Started by unknown · · 104 posts · last reply 24 March 2009
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#51 · date not recorded
E fields vectors are canceled out in the middle, where at the same time the stress is strongest.
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#52 · date not recorded
Its exactly like our genius unkown god friend 2curious4WFC says it is , this is a pm from him , it dates a few months . Most people remember this , I understand your confusion .
2curious is an RF engineer @ waterfuelcell.org .
Here is a pm from 2curious , most of you probably read this but I want you guys to read it again ?
Theres a double resonance here ... Just Look @ 2curious's sig
don't get me wrong, but can you please cut down on the PM a little bit as I have no time left for other things.
Thanks.
TWO, resonances, yes. An electrical one, used to achieve high voltage with little effort.
And an acoustical one (or mechanical if you will), eg. oscillation of particles.(the nucleus and electrons of the atoms)
Yes, it does makes things more complex, that's why many seem to have trouble. This SM
WFC is not a joke, it is quite cutting edge. Too much for most.
my question to him : I'm not really sure what Stan means anymore by *negative voltages* , could this possibly be 2 opposite currents colliding inside the cell , or does this just mean more potential difference like a house +120 and -120 = 240 volt difference Huh Maybe this circuit have bipolar currents of same time phase and equal intensity , Plz have a look at this quote ....
Right, you got it. Two equal AND opposite voltages (or minor currents if you will) with respect to
a virtual ground, as per SM quote.
Yes, they arrive at the same time in the cell. So particles (or molecules if you will are been stressed
equally from each electrode).
So your example is not quite right !!! Correct it would be: +120V + -120V = 0V
So, look at figure 10-5. See it now ? See how he shows a mirror image of the positive waveform vs. the negative waveform and in the center line exactly zero ? -
#53 · date not recorded
yes, like i said the zero volts is exactly down the center of that diagram of the parallel plates, this means you have positive voltage on one side that pulls on the negative oxygen, and one side that is negative that pulls on the positive hydrogen.
if you had +20 and 0 volts on the plates then there would be an unequal stress on the water molecule, because you have all positive voltage between the plates, only the negative oxygen would be pulled on, and the positive hydrogen would not be pulled on, but instead repelled from everywhere inside the plates.
i don't think you understand yourself what you are trying to say. -
#54 · date not recorded
yes, like i said the zero volts is exactly down the center of that diagram of the parallel plates, this means you have positive voltage on one side that pulls on the negative oxygen, and one side that is negative that pulls on the positive hydrogen.
if you had +20 and 0 volts on the plates then there would be an unequal stress on the water molecule, because you have all positive voltage between the plates, only the negative oxygen would be pulled on, and the positive hydrogen would not be pulled on, but instead repelled from everywhere inside the plates.
i don't think you understand yourself what you are trying to say.
Right, you got it. Two equal AND opposite voltages (or minor currents if you will) with respect to
a virtual ground, as per SM quote
It is opposing in the sense of 2 opposing current = no current . And that creates a State region in state space .
If you continue arguing with me those basic facts I will begin to think you are from the MIB lol . I know it doesnt make sense but its like that . -
#55 · date not recorded
protons and electrons are items of opposite characteristics but they are drawn to that opposition. they are drawn in such a manner they fall towards each other. like charges repel each other in a forcing manner.
the charges of the atoms reaction to these fields are of exact OPPOSITE they want to fall in opposite directions cause in that supperimpossing state of space there gravitational forces oppose.. the dynamic pulse is the shizznet. because your not relying on just the positve pulse which only pulls on the electron without the neg pushing force helping.. the negative pulse helps push the electrons the way they are being pulled while pulling on the protons(nucleus). start to think on what defines are up and down in our reality for gravity and how it can be altered. potential placement is everything -
#56 · date not recorded
protons and electrons are items of opposite characteristics but they are drawn to that opposition. they are drawn in such a manner they fall towards each other. like charges repel each other in a forcing manner.
the charges of the atoms reaction to these fields are of exact OPPOSITE they want to fall in opposite directions cause in that supperimpossing state of space there gravitational forces oppose.. the dynamic pulse is the shizznet. because your not relying on just the positve pulse which only pulls on the electron without the neg pushing force helping.. the negative pulse helps push the electrons the way they are being pulled while pulling on the protons(nucleus). start to think on what defines are up and down in our reality for gravity and how it can be altered. potential placement is everything
Hmm I'm lost .
If Donald is right can somebody plz explain to me what Hdemartin means .
There is either 0 volts across the cell or there is double voltage , what opposite is the good one . -
#57 · date not recorded
Dankie, there is only one current flow, and it is a vector quantity which means it has a direction and a magnitude.
it's direction is from + to -, (where electrons flow opposite to current by definition), and it's magnitude is an "ideal" zero.
Imagine you have a copper rod, and you take all the electrons from one end and put them in the other end, you will have + at one end, and an equal - at the other end. now say you don't let them move, you have an equal and opposite voltage between the ends of the copper rod.
I just want you to understand the basics. -
#58 · date not recorded
Electrostatic induction hypothesis
According to the electrostatic induction hypothesis charges are driven apart by as-yet uncertain processes. Charge separation appears to require strong updrafts which carry water droplets upward, supercooling them to between -10 and -20 °C. These collide with ice crystals to form a soft ice-water mixture called graupel. The collisions result in a slight positive charge being transferred to ice crystals, and a slight negative charge to the graupel. Updrafts drive the less heavy ice crystals upwards, causing the cloud top to accumulate increasing positive charge. Gravity causes the heavier negatively charged graupel to fall toward the middle and lower portions of the cloud, building up an increasing negative charge. Charge separation and accumulation continue until the electrical potential becomes sufficient to initiate a lightning discharge, which occurs when the distribution of positive and negative charges forms a sufficiently strong electric field.[13] -
#59 · date not recorded
Dankie, there is only one current flow, and it is a vector quantity which means it has a direction and a magnitude.
it's direction is from + to -, (where electrons flow opposite to current by definition), and it's magnitude is an "ideal" zero.
Imagine you have a copper rod, and you take all the electrons from one end and put them in the other end, you will have + at one end, and an equal - at the other end. now say you don't let them move, you have an equal and opposite voltage between the ends of the copper rod.
I just want you to understand the basics.
Reading Hdemartin's words again , he means 0 voltage , 0 current flow whatsoever .
I am indeed interpreting this correctly .
2curious , hdemartin , have all come to the same conclusion as me , these are smart people .
This is what Aquapulser has to say about this .
http://www.aquapulser.com/research.html
Stan's VIC unit that incorporated the bifilar chokes was for use not with his tubular cell set up but with his water fuel injector. The output of this unit is single phase and there are no harmonics involved, however it must also be said that Stan instead uses laser light and so there is definitely some sort of phase conjugation going on with both the alternator cell set up and the VIC water fuel injector which is a conjugated laser cavity. Scalar effects are produced byphase conjugating a wave by 180 degrees to cancel out the energy, yet it produces a "stress wave" that can have physical effects. This is very similar to Meyer's mirored pulses that one gets with the rectified output of the Alternator. Click here to learn more about phase conjugation. -
#60 · date not recorded
Quotetwo elephants pushing strongly head-on against each other may produce a "two-elephant" system of opposing forces (vectors), where the system is stationary. The system is thus a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero. The same would be true for two fleas pushing against each other and not moving as a system; the system would be a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero.
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/interview1991.htm
And here's where the mathematics betrays us, if accepted unQuestioningly. In vector analysis, all vector zeros are identical. Here we are saying that the translatory motions of the flea system and the elephant system are the same. That's true, but there's a whale of a lot of difference in the two systems that must be accounted for physically! If you don't believe that, put yourself in between the two pushing elephants, and see if that's the same as being between the two pushing fleas! You'll certainly notice a lot more stress on you from the elephants than from the fleas.QuoteNow in quaternions, that is not the case. Quaternions that interact capture this "local stress of spacetime" and "locally trapped energy of spacetime" in the scalar component, inside it.
now I'm starting to understand -
#61 · date not recorded
Quotetwo elephants pushing strongly head-on against each other may produce a "two-elephant" system of opposing forces (vectors), where the system is stationary. The system is thus a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero. The same would be true for two fleas pushing against each other and not moving as a system; the system would be a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero.
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/interview1991.htm
And here's where the mathematics betrays us, if accepted unQuestioningly. In vector analysis, all vector zeros are identical. Here we are saying that the translatory motions of the flea system and the elephant system are the same. That's true, but there's a whale of a lot of difference in the two systems that must be accounted for physically! If you don't believe that, put yourself in between the two pushing elephants, and see if that's the same as being between the two pushing fleas! You'll certainly notice a lot more stress on you from the elephants than from the fleas.
Good analogy -
#62 · date not recorded
well put alan but remember your only talking about one of the forces thats effecting the 2 elephents theres another force involed as well for seperation of water.. imagine those to elephants pushing on each other while haveing ropes on them pulling them just as hard as they are pushing.. since one elephant is negative and the other is positve.
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#63 · date not recorded
Dankie, use your own words, use your own understanding. Come up with your own examples and explanations. It's the only way to show you know what you are talking about.
I am not familiar with what 2curious, hdemartin, and Aquapulser are saying, they are not here on this forum, and from everything you say about them it makes me think you arm mixing up different explanations and technologies.
Besides, i spent 7 months listening to other people trying to figure out what Stan was up to, and then i spend 3 months reading Stan's work+physics+electrical on my own and i've learned 100x more from that than i have in the whole 10 months otherwise.
And Aquapulser has some things mixed up as well, and for the injector system he used lasers/leds to ionize the air, and mix that with the water, to be split in the injector, there is no phase coupling between the lasers and the injectors in this system. Also you can't cancel out the energy, if you have an abundance, and a lack, then the energy will be distributed, same with heat, and pressure. I haven't seen any progress from Aquapulser in a long time, they made/modified the Dave Lawton PWM and started selling it... good for them. -
#64 · date not recorded
Quotetwo elephants pushing strongly head-on against each other may produce a "two-elephant" system of opposing forces (vectors), where the system is stationary. The system is thus a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero. The same would be true for two fleas pushing against each other and not moving as a system; the system would be a zero resultant vector system, whose motion is represented by a vector zero.
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/interview1991.htm
And here's where the mathematics betrays us, if accepted unQuestioningly. In vector analysis, all vector zeros are identical. Here we are saying that the translatory motions of the flea system and the elephant system are the same. That's true, but there's a whale of a lot of difference in the two systems that must be accounted for physically! If you don't believe that, put yourself in between the two pushing elephants, and see if that's the same as being between the two pushing fleas! You'll certainly notice a lot more stress on you from the elephants than from the fleas.
this does not apply to electrical charges, think about it
you either have both the same charge, or one of each
(http://www.tpub.com/neets/book1/chapter1/1-7.gif)
now look at the field vectors, where, what, how, can you ever get two equal and opposite vectors that will result in an zero vector?
you can't
because by definition the vectors direction is away from positive and towards negative, and they will never meet head to head.
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#65 · date not recorded
aha, you're right I guess. Haven't got much experience with vector calculus, will keep this in my mind.
now 2 equal and opposite charges, tied together, what happens when put into the middle of the fields?
two elephants pulling a rope with equal force? -
#66 · date not recorded
a pulling and pushing force on both charges in opposite directions -
#67 · date not recorded
a pulling and pushing force on both charges in opposite directions
yes
- field pushing - particles and vice versa, like you said before
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#68 · date not recorded
well those are point charges, but you can imagine the same thing for parallel plates (or tubes...), if you have both positive or both negative you will get a pure repulsion force between them, or one of each, positive and negative, where the field is directly across the gap from one side to the other.
now imagine this
attachment_3424 Picture 9.png
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#69 · date not recorded
so, can we conclude the force vectors net zero at the center / 0V, acting on the molecules ?
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#70 · date not recorded
here the elephants in action.. one elephants red.. the other is black.attachment_3426 WATER.jpg
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#71 · date not recorded
so, can we conclude the force vectors net zero at the center / 0V, acting on the molecules ?
when the +/- e fields overlap, if that is possible at all, won't that create a net 0 e field vector?
not exactly, there is voltage gradient across the gap, the direction is constant, but the magnitude just happens to switch from positive to negative
voltage means "difference of electrical potential"
so 20+ and 20- volts is the same as 40 volts, (the total difference of electrical potential is 40 volts) but since we "know" that the 20- volts is caused by extra electrons and the 20+ volts is caused by missing electrons then we can understand the distinction
and this is an important distinction because it relates directly to the force on the water molecule
20+ ----- 10+ ----- 0 ----- -10 ----- -20
40+ ----- 30+ ----- 20+ ----- 10+ ----- 0 -
#72 · date not recorded
so, can we conclude the force vectors net zero at the center / 0V, acting on the molecules ?
when the +/- e fields overlap, if that is possible at all, won't that create a net 0 e field vector?
not exactly, there is voltage gradient across the gap, the direction is constant, but the magnitude just happens to switch from positive to negative
voltage means "difference of electrical potential"
so 20+ and 20- volts is the same as 40 volts, (the total difference of electrical potential is 40 volts) but since we "know" that the 20- volts is caused by extra electrons and the 20+ volts is caused by missing electrons then we can understand the distinction
and this is an important distinction because it relates directly to the force on the water molecule
20+ ----- 10+ ----- 0 ----- -10 ----- -20
40+ ----- 30+ ----- 20+ ----- 10+ ----- 0
Once again , read the question I asked 2curious4WFC and read his answer .
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#73 · date not recorded
I should note that you can do vector math of systems of charges, and for electric and magnetic fields, and have net 0 effects, but in the context of what i was trying to explain they don't really fit in, also in the ~4 hours i've been thinking about this i've learned a lot myself, just piecing things together, and i can think of a few things i need to read up on more,
basically the reason for equal and opposite voltage to the cell is to create equal and opposite stress on the oxygen and hydrogen, but they do not cancel out to zero voltage, since the term "zero voltage" would just mean "equilibrium of protons and electrons" while voltage is a unit of "difference" and can be measured between any two points regardless of their equilibrium of protons and electrons. If you have learned about "hho series cells" where they put 12 volts across 6 cells, for 2 volts between each cell, then you'll realize how "voltage" works as a unit of difference.
I also think that there is a bit more going on in Stan's injector, mainly, it screws into the engine block, aka grounded, which would stop you from getting the 20,000- volts, both positive and negative electrodes would have to be insulated from each other as well as the negative electrode insulated from the outside of the injector and thus the engine block. This, or one of them is grounded and 20kv is still enough to rip the water apart.
And on that note, ionized air (missing electrons) in the water fuel mixture can also absorb the milliamps of leaked current that gets past the chokes into the cell.
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#74 · date not recorded
Dankie he says two things, one of them is right, and one of them is wrong, you think the right one is wrong and the wrong one is right. I'm not going to explain it to you any more. -
#75 · date not recorded
Dankie he says two things, one of them is right, and one of them is wrong, you think the right one is wrong and the wrong one is right. I'm not going to explain it to you any more.
Yeah Ok I guess his explanation is vague , but he clearly mentions the term *colliding* , I believe what you are saying is that the potentials are not colliding , but pushign together .
But remember that at a certain coil , Stan mention *non-voltage shift* , this means that both secondarys are at the same pressure level .
I also believe that this theory of simply pulsed high voltage has been tried many many times and has always resulted in failure , the water cannot hold a charge unless the negative electrode is coated with something to stop electron leaks .