Piezo
Started by unknown · · 24 posts · last reply 13 August 2009
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#1 · date not recorded
QuoteYes I do believe it states in the patent he made a ceramic mixture from the minerals that make piezo's.
In a certain combination.
You should be able to see that.
Well, sorry, but you believe incorrectly...there is an insulating "vitreous ceramic"...STOVE CLAY...but, NOWHERE does it say piezo....NOWHERE!
This is what it says about it....
"...Said center hollow tubular electrode carries water, and is separated from the outer cylindrical electrode by a porous ceramic vitreous material, and the inner surface of the outer cylindrical electrode exists a space to contain the water electrolysed."
"...The center tubular electrode is coated with a nickel alloy, and surrounded with a porous vitreous ceramic and a glass tube with the exception of the tip that faces the second electrode"
You are making shit up....if you know anything about piezos...they are NOT porous, in fact they are a seamless crystal matrix.
I deal in facts...not assumptions...get your facts straight
I have included the Puharich patent so u can see for yourself!
Method_and_apparatus_for_splitting_water.pdf
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#2 ·
From Radiant_1 "Well, sorry, but you believe incorrectly...there is an insulating "vitreous ceramic"...STOVE CLAY...but, NOWHERE does it say piezo....NOWHERE!"
What is the vitreous ceramic made from.
If you look you will find a combination of materials.
All these materials are in the piezo family.
Vitreous ceramic material absorbs the water and most probably has piezo tendancies with the special combinations of materials its made from.
Did you read it thoroughly. he does not state piezo but if you research the materials are all in the piezo family.
Why do you suppose Puharich used a special combination of materials for the ceramics?
2:56 or so into Puharich Lecture #3 the chemical composition of the vitreous ceramic coating is enormously complex.
Really think we should not further clutter this thread.
Its funny why people in general cannot see through these patents because we in general have such a small focus on whats being said or read.
Thats why nothing has broke through on the patents we work on.
Please lets not discuss this further as you are being very disagreeable and appear not to be very open minded.
I'm a firm believer the vitreous ceramic material is piezo based by the combination of materials used to make it.
Sorry I should have said piezo materials in that first post.
Just PM me if you want to argue.
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#3 ·
I'm not arguing, I'm proving...but, believe w/e you want.
Fact of the mater is....I know how piezos work....and a porous material would be a poor piezo indeed. As for my mind...you have no idea!
You are spreading unsubstantiated claims...I would encourage YOU to read it thoroughly
Good day sir....I said GOOD DAY!
P.S.
One more piece of logic to prove it....
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-1-3.jpg)
Notice how the "vitreous ceramic" makes a seal between the outer steel housing and the inner nickel lined tube???(like the porcelain in a spark plug...ehhh?..ehh?)....well, a piezo expands and contracts...if that ceramic were piezo...it would break apart!!
Score 1more for logic
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#4 ·
Hi Gauss,
Well, test 1 is done.
I used an outertube of 15 cm / 6 inches long
Innertube is like 18cm / 7 inches.
I have to say that NO vibration what so ever is noticed.....I tried destilled. I tried tap and yes, even some with NOAH.
I have the most soft spacers in the world......
I used a HP signal generator with a 50% duty. I can run this thing between zero and 50Mhz.
Hooked it up to a FET and a variable powersupply which can run from zero till 35V. Max 3 amps.
So, again. No vibration detected.
Question: Have you tried shorter type tubes? Or does it only work with the length you have tested?
Question: At what kind a frequency are the tubes vibrating?
Steve
Let's not forget to take into account the size and shape of the entire water cavity.
It is possible that this is also coming into play here and not just the tubes.
To measure the frequency of the vibrations you can download any of the many freeware and shareware spectrum analyzer programs and use a mic
attached yo your PC sound card. Most of the programs will display a real time Fast Fourrier Transform (FFT). And give you a frequency within a few Hz.
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/win95/SPECTRUM_ANALYZERS/
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#5 ·
I'm not arguing, I'm proving...but, believe w/e you want.
Fact of the mater is....I know how piezos work....and a porous material would be a poor piezo indeed. As for my mind...you have no idea!
You are spreading unsubstantiated claims...I would encourage YOU to read it thoroughly
Good day sir....I said GOOD DAY!
P.S.
One more piece of logic to prove it....
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-1-3.jpg)
Notice how the "vitreous ceramic" makes a seal between the outer steel housing and the inner nickel lined tube???(like the porcelain in a spark plug...ehhh?..ehh?)....well, a piezo expands and contracts...if that ceramic were piezo...it would break apart!!
Score 1more for logic
I have to agree with Radiant here. To suggest the ceramic in Puharich's device is piezoceramic, is purely speculative and a leap in logic in my opinion. In the available online lectures as well as the patents , Puharich states the ceramic is vitreous and porous which would pretty much rule out piezo. If it were piezoceramic, as the term is commonly understood, any legitimate researcher/inventor would have said so in their patent. Puharich never mentioned it anywhere. Neither did Meyer.
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#6 ·
Meyer used quartz in his hydrogenlaser, but not sure why, guess as a non-conducting separation material for the electrodes. -
#7 · date not recorded
QuoteMeyer used quartz in his hydrogenlaser, but not sure why, guess as a non-conducting separation material for the electrodes.
He used a quartz tube to make the body of his hydrogen laser because of the intense heat made inside....quartz glass is one of the most heat resistant materials. -
#8 ·
Several times piezo bolts have been mentioned, what are those? -
#9 · date not recorded
@Alan, a Piezo bolt is a threaded circular type of Piezo crystal that is suggested to have been attached in the slits of Meyer´s pipes, ie in the inner top pipe. I am unsure what he used the crystals/ceramics for in his WFC, maybe to shatter the water in the center cylinder. Another idea, why not use more cylinders like 4 or 6 pcs concentrically aligned so you can hit more water volume and forget about the crystals. There are so many ways and things to investigate one does not find sleep anymore.....
How is efficiency affected when one increases the gap between the cylinders? A standing wave between cylinders has a simple equation, I will check it later. Maybe we can increase the number of nodes. Thanks for the info about how to find the acoustic freq, we will do it later too...
An audible tone is only heard when I use the Delrin holders and tune into a pulsing freq of about 40-50kHz and the signal is increased when any human being comes near the cell and especially if you put your hands around the whole cell! -
#10 · date not recorded
Plz make a video of this Gauss . -
#11 · date not recorded
OMFG!...........more mis-info!
There are no "piezo bolts" threaded into the slots on top of the Meyer tubes!
Those slots are for acoustically tuning the outer pipes to match the inner pipe...look at an organ pipe...realize the Longitudinal Voltage waves propagate the same way as sound. This piezo bolt nonsense is a serious leap...and a HUGE waste of resources, both time and money!!!!!!!!!
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#12 · date not recorded
@Radiant, I said it was "suggested" to have been done like that, I have no knowledge if that was the case. 4th of July just passed...
Anyway, since you seem to be into acoustics, can you please tell me the advantage of tuning inner and outer pipe like an organ pipe and how it is exactly done and what your results were?
The idea must be to get more nodes or am I wrong? I do understand Ravi´s conditioning creates more standing waves since you have a crystalline coating, possibly generating two or three times more gas.
Yes I will do a video, maybe this week if my efficiency tests work well on Tuesday. I will record the tone and show what happens. But I guess many already have done it in here?
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#13 ·
Don't get me wrong...I believe piezo could be very useful (I have attached a patent showing atomic resonance with it)...I just don't think a pieze bolt would work in general. Piezos expand and contract by their very nature...if you apply pressure across a piezoelectric matrix (quartz crystals, certain plastics and ceramics...etc) the pressure is translated across the crystal matrix...this results in H.V. polarity on each side....conversely if you apply H.V. to a piezo it will either expand or contract. It's this expanding and contracting that create the pressure waves we hear as sound. So if u made any type of rigid coupling (bolt, sealing surface, direct clap...etc) it will break apart. That's why in industry piezo transducers are glued on, it buffers it just enough so it doesn't fail.
Anyway, if you look at Stan's "waveguide" pictures you will understand that the voltage involved (pure poynting flow) is a longitudinal wave...(like the piezo's sound waves)....they go in one direction for infinity (or until the transmitting power is dissipated into the atmosphere)....Just like in sound...electricity has two possible longitudinal waves that move in only an outwards direction...it's either a Positive pressure wave (meaning a compression wave) or a Negative pressure wave (meaning a decompression wave)...these two waves either push or pull the surrounding medium. The push/pull waves create a chain reaction (how sound and electricity travel)....in tuned pipes you can get a standing wave to occur very easily. Shaving the slots also brings the larger outer tube's mass down to more closely equal the mass of the inner tube for a balanced capacitor action.
What note Stan's tubes were tuned for is still anyone's guess, but it is most likely the same as the electrical resonance frequency for peak effic.
Ravi's conditioning also added more surface area and crevices for bubble "nucleation" to happen...among other things...like the oxide layer is a higher dielectric then the pure metal...etc
(I forgot the patent....I just attached it)US5568005.pdf
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#14 · date not recorded
standing waves in tuned pipes, that is an eye opener. dphi/dt is the strike of the hammer on the tubes.
I think piezo isn't used, because the tubes do exactly that, KISS
We've already got piezo in the signal generator, to create the clock signal
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#15 · date not recorded
I saw a wind chime yesterday
http://goodjobbb.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/resonant-windchime-25306-lrg.jpg
it's made of long metal tubes, that when hit or tapped they vibrate at a tone dependent on their length, i was tapping it and watching it vibrate and listening to it, and thinking how this is so similar to stans long tubes, then must be vibrating at specific tones, and matched/tuned to each other, I'm pretty much 100% sure the tubes are tuned to vibrate at the same tone.
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#16 · date not recorded
Forgot to attach the patent that lends merit to the piezo idea.....so here it is in a new postUS5568005.pdf
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#17 ·
Has anyone here ever tried putting a sonic or ultrasonic piezo transducer in a water cell ?
The ultra sonic transducers designed for cleaning parts go for about $35 each. It may not help make gas, but the tubes
would probably stay nice and shiny ...
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#18 ·
@Radiant
I have a question for you, I have now checked the Puharich patent a bit and I find it hard to understand why he has ceramics all the way up between the cylinders and he just gets gas between the edges on the top?
Have you tried stove clay between the cylinders, do you believe that is something Stan used? Considerring the picture of the ultrasonic resonator in Stan´s GP, what is the material in the resonator? I can easily try the stove clay concept soon, now my pipes are pretty tuned, finally...
Funny this patent. And also he calculates and show us the 120% OU at 300 deg F water temp... It is not even controversial that claim. Furthermore, low efficient cells draw alot of amps increasing temperature and hence efficiency. So why are we bothering so much about efficiency at room temperature? If you make the water stay cold you get no dry steam... Go-rounds and teeters...
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#19 · date not recorded
Everyone should check this lecture series from Puharich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oa0bFK6iNI&feature=related
There it is, the 2ndary side transformer identical to Stan´s early circuits, used as a driver for the Piezo circuit of Puharich, Stan really is caught with pants down here.... Note how he explains RESISTANCE is key to regulating the (acoustic) resonance. Tapered cavity is better. Anyway, I believe modified GEET is the best method of ionizing, so I will not dig too deep here yet....
We can all stop debating whether Stan used vibrations or not by now, whether it is Piezo or something else is another matter...
Look at this debate: http://forums.ec.europa.eu/debateeurope/viewtopic.php?p=127696
Similar ideas, this is good stuff. -
#20 ·
Everyone should check this lecture series from Puharich:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oa0bFK6iNI&feature=related
There it is, the 2ndary side transformer identical to Stan´s early circuits, used as a driver for the Piezo circuit of Puharich, Stan really is caught with pants down here.... Note how he explains RESISTANCE is key to regulating the (acoustic) resonance. Tapered cavity is better. Anyway, I believe modified GEET is the best method of ionizing, so I will not dig too deep here yet....
We can all stop debating whether Stan used vibrations or not by now, whether it is Piezo or something else is another matter...
Look at this debate: http://forums.ec.europa.eu/debateeurope/viewtopic.php?p=127696
Similar ideas, this is good stuff.
Hi Gauss,
Thank you so much for these video's! They are very good.
I have read the patents of Puharich many times in the last view years. With help of these videos, it is much better to understand.
In the way he made his tubes with a partially insulation of piezo material, you will have a capacitor.
One you can use in an LC circuit. That way you can easier keep a resonance.
Well, so much to research is it...
First the Geet.
Then find a way to use phonons in comby with electrons...
Steve
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#21 ·
I bought a magnetic lab mixer for 20$ and a magnet for 2$
I'm making my own vortex water , when I do this thw whole room smells like chlorine I sware .
I'm gonna add a small pulsed air pump with that . -
#22 ·
http://knol.google.com/k/gaby-de-wilde/water-fueled-car/1yrf1mzjtxzk5/2#
enough patents to research the rest of our lives. and by far enough patents to make clear that it's not all bogus. -
#23 · date not recorded
Its not fake .
Xogen has a multi-million dollar research center in orangeville .
I dont think they would have spent that $ for a normal KOH electrolyser project .
That page is very interresting btw ...
Why is snow white? Whats so special about water anyways ?
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#24 · date not recorded
Its not fake .
Xogen has a multi-million dollar research center in orangeville .
I dont think they would have spent that $ for a normal KOH electrolyser project .
That page is very interresting btw ...
Why is snow white? Whats so special about water anyways ?
Dankie, just ask people in africa what is special about water........
Water and light means life.
Steve
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