IonizationX Stall Point...
Started by unknown · · 15 posts · last reply 25 March 2010
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#1 ·
This forum is stalled at just under 300 members, Public forum is recommended.
I think you should let the newbies in freely, and let the memberlist grow, Then again its you thats dealing with the Spam. I don't see such big problems on other open forums. Just my suggestion. -
#2 ·
This forum is stalled at just under 300 members, Public forum is recommended.
I think you should let the newbies in freely, and let the memberlist grow, Then again its you thats dealing with the Spam. I don't see such big problems on other open forums. Just my suggestion.
Everybody is free to join in here. You just have to register. Thats all.
Its all automated.
The real question is why so many members do not publish at the moment.
Still waiting on some results from some of them....
Steve
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#3 · date not recorded
Nothing to achieve really. Even people who devote their life to this don't progress (waterforfuel.com etc.) and people who may have something (warp?) don't publish in the way necessary to replicate it.
The only important thing is the overunity electrolysis, the other parts may require much work but aren't the problem.
I have lost the belief that stanley meyer's electrolysis is either real or overunity. -
#4 · date not recorded
I agree there is a stall point, and a number of issues with the situation in general.
Is anyone interested in revolutionizing this place? There is a lot of talent, with a little organization this forum could be much better. -
#5 · date not recorded
Nothing to achieve really. Even people who devote their life to this don't progress (waterforfuel.com etc.) and people who may have something (warp?) don't publish in the way necessary to replicate it.
The only important thing is the overunity electrolysis, the other parts may require much work but aren't the problem.
I have lost the belief that stanley meyer's electrolysis is either real or overunity.
Stan had 2 setups, One overunity one not. In his boiler plate configeration I know he created 3 phase to run his series cell, The thing is he had a bogus claim of overuntiy etc,,,,.
Hear this Haith, and think on it a bit.
A heat pump can use about (3000 watts) from the power source,, (your breaker box.)
This means you are getting from your breaker Box (10236) Btu's.
To further give you a tool, 1 watt is equal to 3.412 Btu's, Or vice versa.
Now, you have a Heat Pump (Consuming) 3k watts, OR, 10236 Btu's.
Your heat pump is 2.5 tons, It Produces 30,000 Btu's of Heat!
Now, How is it you can take 3k Btu's and simply convert it into 30,000 Btu's? Sounds impossible does it!?
If you or I invented it, we would think it was overunity wouldn't we. When you place this question to an expert in the field you are clearly taught that it is not overunity, It simply transfers the heat from the outside air into the home using heat exchangers. At 1 degree outside, There is heat in the air, and that heat can be brought in.
Much like stan, He has chosen to Claim an overunity device, But it is not. If you can Compare what stan was saying to the above, you might be able to figure out more on the process. It is improperly understood.
We all know we can do things with atoms, we use voltage potential every day, and we simply overlook the fact that most of todays setups mimic stans. For example the microwave oven heats food by way of "Push Pull Motions" on the water molecule. We use lasers, Fluresent lighting, Air ionizers Lifters and all sorts of things I cant name off. All these things basically alter the atoms. We can not figure out how to alter the atom the way we want to alter it, So its making people give up.
Peaply simply do not think, They simply do not understand the process.
(It is By No Way A Miracle to use voltage to deconstruct the water molecule.)
I will say what is always overlooked.
(If you put a DC voltage across a (Molecule) that molecules Bond will be (Stronger))
Opposites attract as you know already, So by giving them a charge vic, (They're more opposite in greater power.)
To understand the vic, And how to pull the water apart with voltage you must first understand that giving the atom a Dc charge is just to get the (Molecules) voltage up to a level to where it is so great, (you can then apply your attack.) When stan states the voltage across the water will go up to infinity,,, he means he can charge those MOLECULES with a POLARITY.
The greater the charge on those Molecules, (The Greater the bond.) The greater the force. If you increase a Force on such molecule, How do you use this force against the molecule. Wala, seperation.
I use to admit, stan was a joke. But the more I start to understand the atom, and Realize that the Heat pump is much like stans design then see microwaves and all this other stuff,,, This device will one day work! It may not be on the overunity level because it will be layed out and labeled with a reason for its workings, (JUST LIKE THE HEAT PUMP.)
I sent Dynoden my stuff which puts this voltage across any water, (I sent him a start.) If he fails to see the Point of the setup, (This will be bad.) In the setup I sent to him it charges the molecule to thousands of voltages, Perhaps infinity with a better setup.
The voltage across the water should be realized, Dynoden should not rely on his meters and write it off as a Faulty setup. (To light a Lamp) --- (In Parallel) with (9 Tubes in Parallel) the Molecule has clearly tooken a charge. - (Do not deny this) Now the water is(Charged) with a (Greater Bond.) These are the first steps in understanding stan.
Now you understand (A high charge) Makes the bond greater, Not weaker. The high charge of the molecule shall now be (Attacked.) This may mean Flipping the polarity, (Remember the Pulse Train.)
If you had a Tool to measure the Bonding Fields of the water molecule, And you probed the field of this molecule before altered you could write down its field power. If you then use the setup I sent dynoden, when tuned right, Then re measured the Field of the molecule you would see a greater field strength, and a greater bond. You would learn by this that you made the bond of that molecule Stronger. This would leave you thinking,,, Giving the molecule a Charge like stan says to do makes the bond Greater, It does not make it seperate, It makes it even more impossible to seperate. Then you realize, you can flip the polarity, that you give it a charge just so you could use it to pull the molecule apart. I can't explain this anymore/anybetter, it is up to you to understand this process.
The setup I sent dynoden sends a high voltage across the water, (As I shows on youtube.) There is No arguing the light in parallel with the 9 tubes that are also in parallel lighing the lamp, It is a high voltage lamp. The setup dynodon has, it only charges the molecule, it does not ripp it apart, its used to greater the bond fields, Now people should understand what dynoden has, understand this setup and what its doing,, and finish it. We were taught by stan, The right Freq pulls the water apart.
(Thats Not true) You sit the molecule up for attact, then you attact it, Frequency doesn't matter.
A high charged Molecule when applied to 2 voltage fields, when switched around, the water molecule could pull apart due to the voltage fields. Worry less about the freq, and more on how to attack. -
#6 · date not recorded
Very nice read warp .
Prepare THEN attack .
Dont mix up both , both are different processes .
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#7 · date not recorded
Thanks for the reply Warp. Although i do understand the essence of the first part of your text i'm having difficulties with the second part. You suggest a rapid voltage change in direction (alternating voltage) to rip the water molecule apart, is that right? Isn't that against Meyers documents? And if you call Meyer a joke, why bother to investigate further if the impulse in doing research was his work?
Being half-way through my ee bachelor and reading some of Meyer's documents it comes to my mind that it probably isn't any more than an ordinary capacitor with polarisation (as he essentially says and calls it 'electrical polarization process').
There's electron-polarisation happening which moves the nucleus around in the electrical field. Note that in a pure electrical alternating field no thermal energy is 'created'. There's also displacement-polarisation in water, because the dipoles will align in an electrostatic field. Now either of this things [or others] COULD happen:
1. dielectric breakdown of water, the electrical charge on the capacitor walls (stainless steel) is nullified as current through the water, ordinary electrolysis. however the displacement currents would have to be smaller than the freed breakdown-current if it was overunity.
2. no dielectric breakdown must occur. the rapid changing state of molecules (polarised -> alignment; no voltage -> back to statistical equillibrium) in the electrical field without electrons going through the water (amp inhibiting) leads to a force which exceed the nuclear forces. while i think this is very unlikely it's the theory according to Stan Meyer.
However this all is only interesting under the assumption that he indeed got it to work as many documents and media coverage suggest.
While on the other hand numerous experiments from people on this and other forums suggest the opposite. -
#8 ·
While on the other hand numerous experiments from people on this and other forums suggest the opposite.
A. Fluorescent lights bulbs need from 750 volts to over 10,000 volts. They step up the voltage from 120 volts to over 750 volts. Some fluorescent fixtures won't reliably start without a ground. But for purposes of a test, it's usually good enough to grab the metal shell with your hands to provide enough grounding.
Taken From; http://www.doityourself.com/stry/fluorescentqna1
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Lamp In parallel with (Tap Water) Clearly demonstrates (Voltage Performing work.)
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How many (People) have you seen provide such voltages across tap water, And yet, Did they try to (Tamper) or (Alter) the applied voltage.
How many People can manage a (Voltage ("Only") Potential) Without current flow threw tap water? Show me the forum or site links where this is being done!
Show me where they're trying to figure out why the (Voltage Potential) - (Voltage Fields) isn't working! There is a place on the internet where people have such voltages across their cells correct? I mean to light a very high voltage fluresent ("lamp connected in parallel") with (NINE) Tubes ("Also in parallel") with ordanary tap water.
This is why I sent dynoden the tools, So he could see that it worked and reply back so people like you would realize that the trick to gaining such voltage potential across (Tap water) is in the (Core.)
When it is realized that the (water molecule) is being charged to (Infinity if the electronics would allow it) But to over 10k 4 sure, you quickly realize something is missing, You quickly realize opposites attract and alike repel. It becomes All to clear what you've done to the water molecule, And it becomes clear how to solve the (Potential) problem, Meaning you just realized that the higher the (Potential) the water took on, the greater you made that bond. Clearly voltage performed work and made the molecules bond greater, Clearly now it has to be pulled apart.
Clearly, Very clearly,, opposites attract and alike repel, Clearly,
Very, ;
Very,,,, ;
Clearly.....
Electrons are being plucked off during this process.
Clearly,,, Very clearly,,,, The microwave oven is NO JOKE so then
Clearly,, Very Clearly,,,, The Meyers Vic is also No Joke!
In a kind way, where is such people applying such voltages across this molecule? Why are you guy's with the PWM and fuel cells not ((((((Looking for this choke core))))))
again,, 1 more time
(You try it.)
((((((((((((((((((((((((You Try it))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Anyways,, Just making a point, Not directed Toward you at all haithar,,, Its just that everyone spends all this time trying to learn how to apply voltage potential across ordnary tap water,,, But yet when you give them instructions on how to do so, ("You're Ignored!") And at that, you supply (Proof) and the people seem to think its easy. (The should try and see,) then maybe they'd realize exactly what (They're missing out on!)
I would also like to add;;;;
I own 2 companys, I am really really busy starting my second (HVAC) company. I also spend allot of time with my family. By no way (Do I even care one (1) - (Smit) about any amount of (Fame.) As far as I'm concerned, I do not have the time for this testing and reasearch anymore, (I am trying to get my last words in, Get someones attention) because after too long, (I want even have time to visit the forum like i am visitying it (Today).)
The thing that worrys me, when the (directions) is right in front of your face, (Nobody follows them.)
Why does everyone overlook the fact that voltage potential has been applied across tap water? Why doesn't someone Better it (and share?) Youd think there would be (People) jumping all over this, Yet,,,
Nobody wants the damn voltage across their water, (The want current flow) or else (they would be looking for this core like I recommended them to.)
Again
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#9 ·
I used a Fluorescent light bar and connected it across my cell and it was bright on both ends, dark in the middle, changing brightness if you touch it. When you touch in the middle the whole bar lights up, the plus side and minus side also get very bright when you touch there. Like your movie.
I measured 12Volts input and 850Volts output (only when using biff chokes all on one core) on my scope with the probe close against the outside glass of the water cell!
Could not connect it directly due to a maximum on my scope and probe
No gas production unless you connect a ground and current is measured.
Used both a tube cell and adjustable plate cell with no effect on gas production or voltage, +/- 1 Amp going into the vic, close to or no mAmps output behind the chokes going through the cell. (used a analog 0 - 500mA meter)
Currently still need to machine the delrin and a tube with rod as wfc to check if leakage has any effect on voltage and production.
I have a couple of movies made but currently don't have access to them.
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#10 · date not recorded
Thanks Warp.
With your experience, did only the amplitude of the voltage matter or the frequency? Did you use square waves, rectified sine waves or alteranting current (sine-wave)?
I may connect my flyback-transformer to a single cell and see if i can get some voltage onto it, see what happens.
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#11 · date not recorded
Like warp said,I have his set up.I'm going to be taking a break from this research,so if someone else would like to get warps stuff from me,let me know and I'll send it to you,if your in the states please.If warp wants it back,then I'll return it to him,but I believe he wants someone to test it more.I won't have the time to do anymore testing,so I'll pass it on to the next person.
Don -
#12 · date not recorded
On April 10th I will be done of university exams for the semester, and have all summer to work on the water fuel cell technology. I would be interested in trying Warps setup. I am in Canada however. -
#13 · date not recorded
I used a Fluorescent light bar and connected it across my cell and it was bright on both ends, dark in the middle, changing brightness if you touch it. When you touch in the middle the whole bar lights up, the plus side and minus side also get very bright when you touch there. Like your movie.
I measured 12Volts input and 850Volts output (only when using biff chokes all on one core) on my scope with the probe close against the outside glass of the water cell!
Could not connect it directly due to a maximum on my scope and probe
No gas production unless you connect a ground and current is measured.
Used both a tube cell and adjustable plate cell with no effect on gas production or voltage, +/- 1 Amp going into the vic, close to or no mAmps output behind the chokes going through the cell. (used a analog 0 - 500mA meter)
Currently still need to machine the delrin and a tube with rod as wfc to check if leakage has any effect on voltage and production.
I have a couple of movies made but currently don't have access to them.
You have gained (Voltage Potential) across the water molecule. ((("""I'm Proud of you"""))) Now make the bulb brighter, Then go study what the potential is doing to the water molecule.
Imagine, HH0.
Voltage Molecule Voltage
------ (-) Force <-------0---Bond---HH--------> Force (+)++++++++
OPPOSITES ATTRACT
Alike Repels
(((((((DOES THE ABOVE SEEM A BIT CONFISING)))))))))) Are you (Charging the molecule or Not?
??) Look at it until its no longer confusing.
Imagine the (Molecule) introduced to 2 voltage fields. Imagine the (Protons) going one way and the (electrons) the other. This is what stan means by (Plucking) off the electrons. When the electrons Get plucked off the Molecule becomes (Positively charged) due to the missing electrons, Now the molecule is out of balance.
When you apply a high potential across the molecule, it is possible to pluck off the electrons, (1 at a time.)
Then again, Looking from another angle. If you give the molecule a (Charge) of potential, would that molecule not have a greater bond? (Harder to pull apart.)
You have (voltage Potential) across your water molecule, (You don't see much action.) Stan isn't going to tell you everything, Go (Find) a way to understand what it is you are doing to the molecule, You know you have a form of voltage across the water because of your lamp, this is good. But, you should Not have to touch your lamp for it to light when in parallel. The lamp also pulls the voltage down,,, It is only to prove to you potential is there, When you (Believe) you have potential there, (Remove the bulb and get to work.)
You are taking voltage potential and tampering with a water molecule on the (Atomic Level.) You are just now realizing, There are things you do not understand. Go learn what you're doing and why you see no results. Troubleshoot your problem and find a solution.
(You think they didn't go threw this with the microwave oven?) And yes stan talks about microwave ovens on Dvds as well as tv screens and how the electrons react. I do not have all the needed information, But i know where to be looking.
You should NOT stop work on your potential across tap water, (You're on to something) Continue it and make it work. Spend more time researching what you might be doing to that molecule, Take it to the Atomic level and let knowledge grow on you.
Imagine, HH0.
Voltage Molecule Voltage
------ (-) Force <-------Protons---Bond----Electrons--------> Force (+)++++++++
OPPOSITES ATTRACT
Alike Repels Trying To pull apart (Angle 1) - (Pluck)
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Imagine, HH0.
Voltage Molecule Voltage
------ (-) Force <-------ELECTRONS---Bond---PROTONS--------> Force (+)++++++++
OPPOSITES ATTRACT
Alike Repels (Charging) Angle 2.
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You see, Are you charging, or pulling? This is why i say research it on the atomic level. -
#14 ·
But, you should Not have to touch your lamp for it to light when in parallel.
...
You see, Are you charging, or pulling? This is why i say research it on the atomic level.
I also didn't need to touch the lamp, it was actually glowing without touching on both ends and dark in the middle, but the potential difference with your finger is prob larger to make it brighter.
Do you expect concentrated voltage fields isolated within delrin has any effect on this "charging or pulling"? -
#15 · date not recorded
QuoteThen again, Looking from another angle. If you give the molecule a (Charge) of potential, would that molecule not have a greater bond? (Harder to pull apart.)
i think what stan means by charge isn't to change into a positive or negative potential... i think he means to change the velocity of the electrons.. when electrons move into further orbits they must be accelerated to reach that point of change in space relationship..
i think stans circuit could vary field potential from a net 0 to whatever potential chosen rapidly
.. when its pulsing u get negative and a positive pressure in the gap.. this will create the motion shown above in warps example..if that force were to remain constant it wouldnt be of much help one would not think since it is not promoting oscillation to elongate.. to promote elongating electrons you must allow the electrons to travel back in the opposite direction.. warps example with 2 shows the ideal common sense perspective on the atomic lever of action and reaction to voltage..
Imagine, HH0.
Voltage Molecule Voltage
------ (-) Force <-------Protons---Bond----Electrons--------> Force (+)++++++++
OPPOSITES ATTRACT
Alike Repels Trying To pull apart (Angle 1) - (Pluck)
the emf that was used to generate this motion created a change in velocity and direction of the charged particles in the cavity.. then we have the off time.. i think during off time the back emf is makeing lets say 1kv fall back toward 0v the back emf if used in the cell will assist in the fall to 0.. if you have -1kv of voltage deflecting electrons what happens if that -1kv were to drop? the electrons would move back towards the voltage zone since the force of deflection is being removed..
and the atoms naturally want to balance back out.... .. if the back emf were to swing past 0 that would mean that the negative excitor would go into a positive potential which yet again seems logical and accepted to help swing electron back in the opposite direction to promote oscillation.
i do not think stan was tuning into waters frequency of orbital electrons i think he was tuning into the dielectric break down point and performing some sorts of energy oscillation
i think one of the most miss conceived views of stans claims is the tuning into water.. when stan or anyone claims such ,people think that there is a magical frequency that they are matching to create the resonance of water..
the way i see it is when someone claims that they are tuning into waters resonance this simply means that your tuning to the peak production. with the potential being provided.. it doesnt mean a frequency of the water.. ok so there must be some varable we are tuning into? that would be the resistance one water which changed the dielectric break down reactance of water..
for example if a tube cell were to have ocean water in it your break down point would be much quicker then natural rain water because of the conductivity differecne... ocean water would require a higher frequency to prevent dielectric break down from occuring... so if this is true then when stan say in order to variate to higher output of fuel u must turn up voltage.. does that mean when voltage rises you pulsing frequency rises as well?.. this is a acceptable reason for it to be hard to duplicate we are playing with logics that are not locking into resonance.
example.. if your tube cell is reaching break down in 1 second with a 100volts input then at 200 volts it would be a half second to reach breakdown that means the frequency doubled.. could stan of used some sort of doubling circuit that could tune into the resonant freq at lets say 100volts and was capable of doubling frequency as voltage doubles? could this be the sequencng he refers to?
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