Bob Boyce
Started by unknown · · 99 posts · last reply 31 December 2018
-
#51 ·
Passion 1: visual only..water stayed cleaner, noticeably higher production..amps/volts stayed the same. Am not ready to due volumetric testing until I have worked out the alternator assembly. It's not just the vinegar treatment but also the magnetising of the plates that has increased production. Tap water only. Refuse to go the distilled-additive/high amps, low volts path. Tap water, high volts, low amps. Teeter-totter effect. -
#52 ·
Hi steve and others,
I have been reading some of the stuff here, quite some fire works, see you made this site as well turtle
well I will read some more, Steve post post any thing you like from the private I sent to you email all of it if you want, that should bring out some talk.
I see some one agrees with me Bob is leaving some thing out, with the full information any one should be able to replicate the results, the Alternator one mentioned some where, well that the 'Archie blue, stuff, I like that set up as it closely goes with some of the stuff that i have done in the past. with three phases there s a phenomenon that happens it is some thing that in the electrical control, and with stand by power system's hate and try all ways to get rid of, but here on these project, is the stuff that you want.
there is one particular 'thing ' that happens I will be trying to show this some time, get it right no 'magical extra power required' all explainable. there is a point where at the particular harmonic, the Voltage will be 85 times that of the fundamental. It is some thing that happens in the industry that is hated, but I think that could be used here.
I am developing a different line, but it is pure power pulses with a lot of current but NOT MUCH FROM THE POWER GRID, this was something that in one of my jobs in the power industry we utilized, we used hundreds of amps, but took very little from the grid, if the power company found out what were doing they wold have tried to stop us. but it was a LEGAL.
Well that's all for my first post I will try and post some pic later, more to read here first to get the 'feel of this forum'
aussepom -
#53 · date not recorded
Welcome and revisit with your explanations and methods. Any help is appreciated. We try anything here. -
#54 ·
So, mate, is it a case of power factor, the Boyce circuit utilzes a phase-shifting approach that masks the actual power being drawn from the grid? I've heard of that, but not completely understood it.
Turtle -
#55 ·
Hi there Turtle
You on the right track again mate, yes we had to screw up the power factor, to what is normally not achievable.
As you know the best you could normally get is about .98, we got to 1, and 1.05 it cost a bit but what is cost was small compared to the gains on the testing that was done, the circulating currents in the circuit were huge, hundreds of amps at 415v. Well I have been tied up with our 'Bob Boyce replication' we are doing the main test Sat 21st, every thing as been done as per the 'info', but there is a lot I think that is not being told, well we will see on Sat. Ian is a 'Joe Cell' expert and has a new book with his friend in South Australia, 'JMax' so 'unusual power' he is aware of.
I am almost getting ready to start on the 'Oz Injector' again funds are getting better. All the research and testing around the 'BB Cell' l have been looking at some of my stuff, I have a 'new type of circuit' back to the large circulating currents and high voltage pulsing, it involves out of phase stuff and harmonics.
well that's all for now.
aussepom -
#56 · date not recorded
Hi Aussepom,
Have you read this topic, yet?
Its about the Bob replication of me and Electrojolt.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,695.0.html
br
Steve
-
#57 · date not recorded
Why do you even bother replicating , you can now buy one his cells for a couple thousand $. In fact , he named his company "the cell" ... -
#58 ·
Hi Dankie,
Our idea is to replicate the original one that he supposed to have done all these magical things, but it seems the one that he has posted on the web is NOT the real original set up??, we here in Australia would find it more costly to buy form a 'Bob Boyce outlet, and why should we make him rich over something that from what we can find out NO ONE can really replicate from the information that is given out in the D9, a document that keeps changing. that is the reason that we have built the unit, and this Saturday we will see if what is in the D9 works or not.
aussepom -
#59 · date not recorded
Why do you even bother replicating , you can now buy one his cells for a couple thousand $. In fact , he named his company "the cell" ...
Dankie
THE CELL is merely a 2 x 6 series cell brute force booster that generates hydroxy at the rate +- 1 lpm for every 10A, 13.8V.
This is NOT a 101 plate cell for resonance purposes.
At http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=423.0
we have been trying to replicate the 101 plate Boyce setup for the past 5 months but no luck yet.
Are doing everything exactly as per Bobs specification and even have a Hex controller....
Best attempt by Watkykjy achieved an increased gas production effect that could have been resonance.
Unfortunately he only achieved this effect once for about 5 seconds but could not maintain or
replicate afterwards. Also, he could not do any gas measurements during this short period, so we cannot say for sure if it was resonance or not (Watkykjy is my friend and is really doing a good job! So if he cannot get it right, then it does make one think....
Maybe all information needed is not disclosed??)
But we remain positive....and will keep on trying.....
Aussepom, please keep us updated about your own replication.....
Wouter -
#60 · date not recorded
Hi there
The sealed unit 6 cell will do 2 lts per min for 15a at 12volts from one of our members, he has staked unit have a look for your self, the plans are available
[THE CELL is merely a 2 x 6 series cell brute force booster that generates hydroxy at the rate +- 1 lpm for every 10A, 13.8V.
This is NOT a 101 plate cell for resonance purposes.]
http://www.takeaction.com.au/hoh/hohnews/hoh_news_03_08.asp
quoted
[we have been trying to replicate the 101 plate Boyce setup for the past 5 months but no luck yet.
Are doing everything exactly as per Bobs specification and even have a Hex controller....
Best attempt by Watkykjy achieved an increased gas production effect that could have been resonance.
Unfortunately he only achieved this effect once for about 5 seconds but could not maintain or
replicate afterwards. Also, he could not do any gas measurements during this short period, so we cannot say for sure if it was resonance or not (Watkykjy is my friend and is really doing a good job! So if he cannot get it right, then it does make one think....
Maybe all information needed is not disclosed??)
But we remain positive....and will keep on trying.....]
it seems that some one else has come to the same conclusions as our group,
posted by me on waterforall
[ Hi
try looking at these, I have a couple more to post an explanation , the series of pulses were done, and strung together, now they were taken as the board was set up and a pic taken each time, there was a fault and it does show up then I traced it to a faulty connection on the Mosfet, then continued.
The cell was done by Ian and last Saturday when we tried to do the big test, well the same problems happened again, even when the board was tuned, things happen very quickly, even though I was aware of the problem and was watching for it. there it went again 'BANG'.
We had every thing in the circuit, but with the board off, we did the test for the flow rate, this was very poor. It was set up as per 'Bobs recommendation of by applying just enough voltage across the cell to get 4 amps DC flowing through the cell. This took 204volts DC. Now get that from you 110AC or even the 120V AC, with out the aid of a step up transformer. So I have 'trouble shooted' the problem, it was as I expected, so I will be making some recommended changes to the board, and this will not 'change the concept of the circuit', although I have found another possible cause to some of the problem in the tuning, that may be able to be overcome. I will give you some free advice take it as it is given, in good faith, if you have a 'F' board or are going to get one, get the HD version, and fit the heavier Mosfets, it can still operate the same way but you do have a better chance to set it up. there is a good side to this as well, if it does not work, use it as a heavy pulse unit.
personally why bother. before the blow up, we did the volume test, we got 4.6ltrs per min!. so to get to 40ltrs per min there has to be some real 'magical things to happen', I don't think so. but I are going to repair the board, I will be putting the Mosfet on a different 'statalite board', it will also house the 'new chokes' that I think that should be there. then this will be the last try. the unit is NO GOOD FOR PUTTING INTO A VEHICLE, THERE ARE MANY PROBLEMS WITH AN 'OPEN TANK' DESIGN. SO WHY BOTHER WITH AN INVERTER.
try this address I will put some more on later. ]
http://s565.photobucket.com/albums/ss94/aussepom/
well I will leave you to thing on this for awhile, there is more.
aussepom
-
#61 · date not recorded
Hi Steve
guess what I have been banned from workingwatercar, must have been the last post I sent in, maybe they do not like is being found out, I expect that Hydroxcy, and the the others will follow, well I don't care it is what we have found out and that's bad luck if they do not like it. photobucket will carry more pic, the reason it was there is that one was a few
megbytes long. I have more to go on there and there will be a continuation here if thats ok with you Steve.
aussepom -
#62 ·
One of recent Bob's posts (http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=423.new;topicseen#new)
The only time 4 amps is used is during the cleansing phase, during which time the cells are not connected to the toroidal power system. After that, the conditioning phase, which is done for at least several days, running at about 1 amp, and again, the cells are not connected to the toroid power system. Only when operated during resonance, (after cleanse and conditioning are completed) is the toroidal power system connected. At that time, entraining potential current through the cell stack is in the few hundred milliamps range. The primary current to all three toroid primaries combined is no more than a few hundred milliamps TOTAL!
I will say this again, if you are running enough current to blow FETs or burn traces, then you have your pulse widths set way too wide! This toroidal power system WILL NOT WORK if you are running enough current through the primaries to create collapsing magnetic fields (with BEMF) at pulse end. This is NOT an electromagnetic transformer, nor was it designed to be. It is designed for switched transitions of potential (voltage) only, and passing those transitions along to modulate another dipole of higher potential. Even though it uses windings, it is designed for its capacitively fluxing potential, not fluxing magnetic fields. If I wanted it to be a magnetic transformer, it would be wound with magnet wire, and the primaries would be beneath the secondary. Try to think of it as a 3 phase fluxing capacitor instead of a 3 phase transformer.
I use a variac to adjust the secondary voltage, this adjusts the density of the water between the plates. Also, the toroid windings ideally should be wound for opposite spin in the southern hemisphere. This would mean winding CCW going CW, and the 3 phases would be reversed in direction for CW clocking. This is to compensate for the reverse earths magnetic field south of the equator. Having it wound and connected for northern hemisphere will still work, but at a loss of production.
By the way, the 100 cell unit was never designed to be used in a vehicle. Nor do I recommend it to be used in that manner. It was designed for stationary applications, as in genset installations, or welding gas generation. I used one during the booster rally only because it was easy and available, and it needed to be given a good cleanse, which I did while on the road.
Bob Boyce -
#63 ·
Another useful pile of his posts from last few years:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12721781/OUPower-Bob-Boyce-PWM3 -
#64 · date not recorded
-
#65 · date not recorded
Hi Cowboyrx,
Why don't you post the rest of the information that has caused this response and the post that I will be putting in reply, Sorry Steve but you have to see all the information, not one side.
and Steve I will be posting the info that is relevant to the working and setting up of this 101cell, wouter on that site has asked me to continue. The big problem has been the lack of information that has been left out of the D9, and some of the information in it is not correct as well.
Well Steve I have bought some more parts to 'repair the PWM3F board, and I will be adding some refinements, and doing a retest, and so it will be the last try.
well I will catch up with this later
aussepom -
#66 · date not recorded
Hi coyboyrx
ok thank you for the 'old Bob Boyce OUpower stuff I haven't been on that site for awhile.
aussepom -
#67 · date not recorded
Hi Cowboyrx,
I am only posting the info we can use to understand Bob's resonance drive. To date, no one else but Bob has been able to produce high volumes of gas (75-100 LPM) using low Amps. I also have a smaller than 101 plate series cell built with the toroid, 3 freq board, chokes, etc. But don't have the electronics knowledge and experience like some of you. Bob is definitely keeping it a secret and recently mentioned that he declined a $300 million offer to 'shelve his resonance drive' by a major automaker. He is the only person alive that we have seen who claims 'resonance.' I don't doubt that his technology works.
Why don't you post the rest of the information that has caused this response and the post that I will be putting in reply, Sorry Steve but you have to see all the information, not one side.
and Steve I will be posting the info that is relevant to the working and setting up of this 101cell, wouter on that site has asked me to continue. The big problem has been the lack of information that has been left out of the D9, and some of the information in it is not correct as well.
Well Steve I have bought some more parts to 'repair the PWM3F board, and I will be adding some refinements, and doing a retest, and so it will be the last try.
well I will catch up with this later
aussepom -
#68 · date not recorded
Hi Steve
guess what I have been banned from workingwatercar, must have been the last post I sent in, maybe they do not like is being found out, I expect that Hydroxcy, and the the others will follow, well I don't care it is what we have found out and that's bad luck if they do not like it. photobucket will carry more pic, the reason it was there is that one was a few
megbytes long. I have more to go on there and there will be a continuation here if thats ok with you Steve.
aussepom
Its a shame they banned you, Aussepom!
I also have my doubts on the Bob setup. I know that Wouter and Watkij are trying their best on this and they have contact with Bob.
I also produced all kind of waveforms with my circuits here.....
The only thing from Bob that made sense was the idea of destablizing the water with multiple frequency's....
Looks like the more dirtier the signal from your circuit with coils, the better.....
Well, if others want to come over here, to develope further the Bob system, its fine by me.
I watched yr video's. You made a nice setup there.
BUT please watch out with that big cell. There is a lot of space on top of it where hydroxy is stored.......
Before you know it, you blow yr house up..
br
Steve
Ps.
Please use dots in your texts...Its much better to read it with those dots...
-
#69 · date not recorded
Hi there Coyboyrx, and you Steve
Ok it seem that we all agree that Bob has been holding back, I have at the moment got his attention and I am backing him into a corner to answer some questions. It is being done for a reason on the warteforall site, wouter is on my side and has contacted me by private email, and I sent him the post that I think caused the problem. All I was doing was to offer advice to three new guys, who were not sure of any thing. I pointed then to Pat Perlies controller, that may have upset him, I also said some thing about 'his precious HEX controller" How with the right tools any one could get hold of them and programme in what ever they like. I did it many years ago BY HAND NO PROGAMMER TO DO IT.
I have got some more info out of him and with the next post that is almost ready it should get him to answer some more questions, he needs to do it as he wants wouter on his side.
I will be repairing the board hopefully this weekend, and I hope to run some more tests and try to may a better vid to explain things.
Ok I will catch you later.
Oh by the way how much concentration do you use ? with KOH or do you use the Na whatever?
I have only use up to 10 % , the big 100 cell unit that Ian has got I am not sure what he has used.
Any idea what Bob used?
The reason is when we tested it at 4amps, the voltage across the cell was 204VDC, we only got 4.6ltrs per min. now in the last post on the wouter site, there seems some confusion.
Bob Boyce is saying that "you only need a few hundred milli amps through the cell, but did not say any figure!! Then the following post a Mr Rowland, says that "to adjust the voltage across the cell to give you 1.5v per cell, so that comes out to 150v, and what ever the current is at that point is ok.
I have an Idea that Bob Boyce goes as high as 25 to 30%, concentration, this is far to high, at 30% you will destroy the SS coating.
Ok bye for now
aussepom
-
#70 · date not recorded
I think Bob is already open with the KOH concentration: he says to use 1/3 by volume. His cell is by no means low current.
If you want a real low current HV setup try a half bridge circuit similar to rice cooker and induction hob circuits. The trick is a full wave AC. -
#71 · date not recorded
http://stores.homestead.com/hydrogengarage/-strse-THE-CELL/Categories.bok
Why dont you just buy the dam thing , its gonna cost you the same exact thing to build your own anyways ... Not to mention the trouble you will go throught and all the unknown variables to frustrate you .
Seriously , you think he's gonna tell anything ? He has chosen to sell his product and rightfully so , revealing his secret will hurt his business .
-
#72 · date not recorded
Hi there Coyboyrx, and you Steve
Ok it seem that we all agree that Bob has been holding back, I have at the moment got his attention and I am backing him into a corner to answer some questions. It is being done for a reason on the warteforall site, wouter is on my side and has contacted me by private email, and I sent him the post that I think caused the problem. All I was doing was to offer advice to three new guys, who were not sure of any thing. I pointed then to Pat Perlies controller, that may have upset him, I also said some thing about 'his precious HEX controller" How with the right tools any one could get hold of them and programme in what ever they like. I did it many years ago BY HAND NO PROGAMMER TO DO IT.
I have got some more info out of him and with the next post that is almost ready it should get him to answer some more questions, he needs to do it as he wants wouter on his side.
I will be repairing the board hopefully this weekend, and I hope to run some more tests and try to may a better vid to explain things.
Ok I will catch you later.
Oh by the way how much concentration do you use ? with KOH or do you use the Na whatever?
I have only use up to 10 % , the big 100 cell unit that Ian has got I am not sure what he has used.
Any idea what Bob used?
The reason is when we tested it at 4amps, the voltage across the cell was 204VDC, we only got 4.6ltrs per min. now in the last post on the wouter site, there seems some confusion.
Bob Boyce is saying that "you only need a few hundred milli amps through the cell, but did not say any figure!! Then the following post a Mr Rowland, says that "to adjust the voltage across the cell to give you 1.5v per cell, so that comes out to 150v, and what ever the current is at that point is ok.
I have an Idea that Bob Boyce goes as high as 25 to 30%, concentration, this is far to high, at 30% you will destroy the SS coating.
Ok bye for now
aussepom
I believe that I have the Brute force part down in large series cells and he doesn't appear to be holding much back on that one. The low output reason for your cell is low electrolyte. You need to have 28% of KOH by weight and dare not increase your voltage more than 2.5V per cell i.e, 100*2.5=250V or you will burn the surface on your plates and will have to start over with sanding/conditioning/etc. If you have 28% concentration, apply no more than 1.9V per cell and you will see the cell will pull a lot of current and will also produce a lot of gas. You should easily get 180% to 200% Faraday (12-15MMW) You water level must be more than 0.5" below the top of the plate. So, for active surface area, your current draw should not exceed 0.5A/sq. in ( 6x5/2=15A) Your gas production should be close to 190x15x12=~34LPM) This is for Brute force only, after the cell has been warmed up to 45-55 deg C and had been conditioned for several days.
You must read the d9.pdf for how to prepare the cell for resonance. PM me if you want specific details.
-
#73 · date not recorded
Hi Cowboyrx
Well buying the big cell was not an option to get it here in one piece and the freight.
Ours was all laser cut, and CNC made any how. It was all done to specs and conditioned etc.
Ian ran is on 'brute force' up to 9amps at 190v and only got 13.5ltrs per min. the cell get very hot at 8amps.
So I will be asking Ian about the concentration, here is most of our cell we only go to 10% concentration, we use pure stuff, in crystal form, weight it, so much per ltr. I think it is 40grams per ltr for 5%.
My test cell as Steve may remember, there was a pic some where, it's a round sealed cell but mine is an experimental version.
It has twin inputs, one feed the odd numbers and the other feeds the even, I have holes at the top and at the bottom, so the 22cell unit can be put into two 11's in parallel, if you want. Like this it can give 4.5lts per min at 27v 15amps. Just brute force, it is a convection circulation, I have added a modification, and extra header tank. That is on rainwater, that has been standing for a period of time, at about 8%.
I am winding toroid chokes at the moment, one down two to go. 1.5mm wire, forgot to count the turns but I used 2 metres, came out to 222uH 0.633ohms, and impedance Z at 100hz was 0.1535 ohms. Out cell at 35D C is Rof full circuit at 100hz, the cell is 350uf.
{ 190x15x12=~34LPM } explain, I got the 190 that volts, the 15 is the amps, what's the 12?
Is that Faraday. And MMW ?
190 x 15 x 12 = 34,200 190 x 15 = 2,850watts. Next ?
ok I will await the reply, I have sent the request in so Bob should read it soon.
aussepom
-
#74 · date not recorded
Hi Cowboyrx
Your cell with 4500ml/min is 4500ml/(27vx15a)=11.11 MMW. Not bad. That's 160% Faraday (100% Faraday is ~7MMW)
Well buying the big cell was not an option to get it here in one piece and the freight.
Ours was all laser cut, and CNC made any how. It was all done to specs and conditioned etc.
Ian ran is on 'brute force' up to 9amps at 190v and only got 13.5ltrs per min. the cell get very hot at 8amps.
So I will be asking Ian about the concentration, here is most of our cell we only go to 10% concentration, we use pure stuff, in crystal form, weight it, so much per ltr. I think it is 40grams per ltr for 5%.
My test cell as Steve may remember, there was a pic some where, it's a round sealed cell but mine is an experimental version.
It has twin inputs, one feed the odd numbers and the other feeds the even, I have holes at the top and at the bottom, so the 22cell unit can be put into two 11's in parallel, if you want. Like this it can give 4.5lts per min at 27v 15amps. Just brute force, it is a convection circulation, I have added a modification, and extra header tank. That is on rainwater, that has been standing for a period of time, at about 8%.
I am winding toroid chokes at the moment, one down two to go. 1.5mm wire, forgot to count the turns but I used 2 metres, came out to 222uH 0.633ohms, and impedance Z at 100hz was 0.1535 ohms. Out cell at 35D C is Rof full circuit at 100hz, the cell is 350uf.
{ 190x15x12=~34LPM } explain, I got the 190 that volts, the 15 is the amps, what's the 12?
Is that Faraday. And MMW ?
190 x 15 x 12 = 34,200 190 x 15 = 2,850watts. Next ?
ok I will await the reply, I have sent the request in so Bob should read it soon.
aussepom
190V x 15A x 12mmw = 34,200ml = 34.2LPM
190 x 15 = 2,850watts At this power, considering 12MMW efficiency, you should get 34,200ml = 34.2LPM
Using distilled water with 28% KOH or 20-23% NaOH gives best MMW efficiency. You cell should not get over 55C, if you don't exceed 2v/cell and 0.5A/sq. in of active surface area (wet area) AND when you don't have any plate edge/hole leakage.
10% NaoH is only for conditioning the plates, not for full brute force or resonance. I hope your plate spacing between each cell is 3-4 mm? -
#75 · date not recorded
http://stores.homestead.com/hydrogengarage/-strse-THE-CELL/Categories.bok
Dankie
Why dont you just buy the dam thing , its gonna cost you the same exact thing to build your own anyways ... Not to mention the trouble you will go throught and all the unknown variables to frustrate you .
For the second time:
THE CELL is merely a 2 x 6 (or 4 x 6) series brute force cell producing +- 1 lpm for every 10A, 13.8VDC.
THE CELL is NOT a 101 plate cell needed for resonance. The 101 plate cell together with Bob's Hex controller is said to produce up to 100lpm at low amps but we still could not verify this.
Wouter