who wants to earn 30,000 us dollars?
Started by unknown · · 51 posts · last reply 8 May 2019
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#1 · date not recorded
What does 1 kilo of Aluminium cost?
steve -
#2 ·
Modification of the calculation:
1 kilo of alu cost,s around 1,70 euro
Proven is that you can run a car for like 500 till 600 km on 1 kilo alu with NAOH hydrogen, which is H2
Assume that your car is delivering 50kw during that trip, we also assume that the trip took 5 or 6 hours.
Thats 50kwh x 5 = 250kwh of energy coming out that 1 kilo of alu
If you want to know how much alu you need for 24 hours of production, then multiply by 4.8
So, 4.8 kilo per day for 1200kwh
1 kwh is sold for 0.07 euro cent. 1200 x 0.07 = 84 euro's per day
365 days x 84 euros = 30000 euros per year !!!
4.8kg x 365 = 1752 kilo's of alu is used in 1 year
1752 x 1,70 euro = 3000 euro costs....
In theory you can make a wopping 29,700,-- euro's per years if you run a generator of 50kwh on alu and NAOH
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#3 · date not recorded
Sounds like a pretty good opportunity. Keep in mind that the metal/air battery (with electrolyte) also puts out H2 during its operation. The tricky part is preventing the oxide layer buildup which prevents further reaction. Currently, researchers are mixing in Gallium, which is pretty expensive to reclaim. Years ago, some guy ran his car with hydrogen by scraping a fuel wire across a rod, under water. Friction either prevented the oxide or caused it to fall off, so the wire could be reversed and reused a number of times. I don't know if a graphene layer would block the corrosion, but that does work in car batteries. Maybe we can reverse pulse the cell periodically, to blast the alumina from the surface?
There could be a lot of money in this, as long as you can set up the debt account to get it started. -
#4 · date not recorded
Yes, the opportunity might be real.
So, what i did today, is that i took a testprobe of alu and submerged it into water (reversed osmose) with some KOH.
Here are some short video's i took. Maybe you can follow my thinking here.
The first video is of course the start. After 1 minute, hydrogen starts to occure.
The two other videos are taken 5 minutes after eachother and after the start video.
It looks like to me that the proces is pretty stable, depending on pH levels, and water temperature.
Sofar, no oxydation.......
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8bJqz20u-k[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAeZxXPPw_o[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHtXUyGSMe0[/youtube]
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#5 · date not recorded
one hour later
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33RV8MotgoA[/youtube] -
#6 · date not recorded
2 hours later
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCdFr_wrEKc[/youtube] -
#7 · date not recorded
7 hours later
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO693_pq1DM[/youtube]
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#8 · date not recorded
It looks like that the aluminium testprobe is loosing mass.
That part i understand.
The thing is that the water is getting dark and i also see that the reaction is getting less after some hours.
So, i think that the KOH in the water is getting oxydised or consumed.....
Any comments on that?
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#9 ·
It does appear that your reaction is consuming both the metal and the electrolyte. Is it possible to just use water, with the oxygen producing alumina, thereby liberating the H? Perhaps an under water arc would produce excess energy, from the H, since there's also the aluminium reaction. If straight DC from a battery or capacitor won't do it, a plasma arc might.
edit: Someone's using powdered al mixed into ice as rocket fuel. As long as the mixture is frozen, it remains stable. Then, the heat in the combustion chamber melts the ice, with the ensuing reaction producing Hydrogen exhaust. -
#10 ·
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Fr0Sd2KV9Xw[/youtube]
so, after 24 hours, the water is more clear again and the leftovers are sunk to the bottum.
Part of the alu is not on the testprobe anymore.
Ill gues thats what now on the bottum?
It makes this a very simple technic which can be applied easely.
Put a waterfilter and pump in the proces and a system that adds naoh or koh once in a while...
A feed of alu and of you go
Bingo!
300k a year bruto
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#11 ·
It does appear that your reaction is consuming both the metal and the electrolyte. Is it possible to just use water, with the oxygen producing alumina, thereby liberating the H? Perhaps an under water arc would produce excess energy, from the H, since there's also the aluminium reaction. If straight DC from a battery or capacitor won't do it, a plasma arc might.
edit: Someone's using powdered al mixed into ice as rocket fuel. As long as the mixture is frozen, it remains stable. Then, the heat in the combustion chamber melts the ice, with the ensuing reaction producing Hydrogen exhaust.
Thats very creative! Ice with alu...
I would go for simple filters and a waterreservoir full with mix water naoh....
Just renew the reactionchambers water once un a while -
#12 · date not recorded
I´m using HCL and aluminum to generate H2 for filling balloons sometimes for the beer business..
My plan is to use this H2 to test with the generator i got last year... and perhaps being able to excite the gas somehow ...
How would you get 300k?
selling the energy?
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#13 · date not recorded
That's a good idea Steve, about adding a filtration system. The waste alumina could be sold to the recycle company, to pay for the electrolyte and then some.
Where I live in the US, a kWh costs 11 cents and the utility company is required to buy co-generated energy. They want $30,000 to extend the power lines out to my place, although I could buy another property which is on grid for the same amount, or less. I think you're on to something. -
#14 · date not recorded
I´m using HCL and aluminum to generate H2 for filling balloons sometimes for the beer business..
My plan is to use this H2 to test with the generator i got last year... and perhaps being able to excite the gas somehow ...
How would you get 300k?
selling the energy?
Yes, Fabio. Just sell back to the grid.
In my country i pay 14 cents for 1kwh.
If i sell, then i get 7 cents......
How much kwh is your generator?
The bigger the better......meaning bigger are more efficient, as far as i can tell from my engine hho tests......
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#15 · date not recorded
That's a good idea Steve, about adding a filtration system. The waste alumina could be sold to the recycle company, to pay for the electrolyte and then some.
Where I live in the US, a kWh costs 11 cents and the utility company is required to buy co-generated energy. They want $30,000 to extend the power lines out to my place, although I could buy another property which is on grid for the same amount, or less. I think you're on to something.
Tektrical, you name the left overs Alumina. Thats the restproduct of aluminium and oxygen.
I read that alumina can be melted back into aluminium?
Good luck with making decisions...30,000 usd is a lot of money.
Power cables are expensive as well, if you want to buy that other property, and extend the power to your current house.
I wanted to measure the pH during the tests, but i dont trust my ph meter anymore......
The whole reason, i started this topic is because of this product:
https://maynex.com/gallery/
I thought, i should be more then capable to create my own aluminium naoh/koh hydrogen generator.
I must say that this test run, surprised me positive.
The aluminium consumption and koh consumption is not very high, and the hydrogen H2 is good.
I need some time to think this idea thru, component wise....
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#16 · date not recorded
Alumina is refined back to aluminium by mixing it with creolite, melting the mixture at 1300 degrees Celsius, then electrolyzing it with six volts and 100,000 amps. Wouldn't it be great if we could just apply some VIC pulses to the cell, to keep splitting the Oxygen out of the alumina? Then the aluminium would only be like a catalyst.
Out here bare land is $1,500 for an acre and a half. They won't set a power pole without a septic tank, so that's another $5,000. Harbor Freight has a 7KW generator head for $300. So seven of those would be $2,100. So that's $8,600, plus the first couple of month's supply of fuel metal. And the cost of assembly. I have an extra vehicle with a strong engine to crank the generators, so the whole thing looks doable. -
#17 ·
what happens is as follows:
The reaction of Aluminium with Sodium Hydroxide is a Displacement reaction (where one element is more reactive than the other and displaces it in a reaction). Therefore, when both react with each other, it would form Aluminium Hydroxide (AlHO) and Sodium (Na).
I have seen the salt crystals and i have seen gray powder on the bottum.
Tektrical, this " system" is a 1 electrode system.
Do you suggest to make a 2 electrode system?
What materials? (of course 1 of aluminium)
Is current not shutting down the reaction?
7kw for 300 usd is really cheap.... Make one run on this. Learn the needed leassons and move to a second one....
I will try here something with filters and a very small aquarium pump....
If i can keep the water clean and the naoh working, then i will try to make my 3,5kwh gen run on it....
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#18 ·
NaOH is a base because when dissolved in water it dissociates into Na+ and OH- ions. It is the OH- (hydroxyl ion) which makes NaOH a base. In classical term a base is defined as a compound which reacts with an acid to form salt and water as depicted by the following equation. NaOH+HCl=NaCl+H2O. This equation means a molecule of sodium hydroxide reacts with a molecule of hydrochloric acid to form a molecule of sodium chloride(salt) and a molecule of water. In terms of Lewis theory a base is defined as a compound which donates a pair of electrons and an acid is defined as the one which accepts the pair of electrons. OH- ion (anion) from NaOH would donate its pair of electrons to the proton (H+) of acid to from water as shown below. OH- + H+ = H2O. This proves that NaOH (caustic soda) is a base. Not only is NaOH a base but also in reality it is a strong base and is an alkali (giving an alkaline solution in water). In terms of pH if 40 g of NaOH is dissolved in water to make a litre of its aqueous solution (1 N NaOH) the pH of the resulting solution will be 14. Similarly the pH of 4g of NaOH in a litre of aqueous solution is 13. A solution having pH 7 is neutral and a solution with a pH lower than 7 is acidic and a solution with a pH higher than 7 is basic. The pH of 1N HCl is 0.
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#19 ·
Alumina is refined back to aluminium by mixing it with creolite, melting the mixture at 1300 degrees Celsius, then electrolyzing it with six volts and 100,000 amps. Wouldn't it be great if we could just apply some VIC pulses to the cell, to keep splitting the Oxygen out of the alumina? Then the aluminium would only be like a catalyst.
Out here bare land is $1,500 for an acre and a half. They won't set a power pole without a septic tank, so that's another $5,000. Harbor Freight has a 7KW generator head for $300. So seven of those would be $2,100. So that's $8,600, plus the first couple of month's supply of fuel metal. And the cost of assembly. I have an extra vehicle with a strong engine to crank the generators, so the whole thing looks doable.
1500 for an acre? Thats insane cheap! In which area are you?
2100 usd for 49kwh is also really good.
However, i know that those little motors are less efficient as one big one, with hydrogen....or hho
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#20 ·
Question to all readers:
How much kwh are you allowed to sell back to your grid providers? Is there a limit?
I would really like to know this.... -
#21 · date not recorded
i checked some of those cheap gensets and no one delivered the promised kwh...
My calculations are an example, btw.
In my case and in most ideal situation.
I dont know what you guys will get per kwh and i dont know what you pay for alu and naoh or koh...
For me, even if the costs where double triple etc it would make loads of money....
cheers! -
#22 ·
1500 for an acre? Thats insane cheap! In which area are you?
2100 usd for 49kwh is also really good.
However, i know that those little motors are less efficient as one big one, with hydrogen....or hho
I'm 40 miles west of the Grand Canyon Skywalk, 45 miles north of Kingman, Arizona. (That puts me 50 miles from the grocery store).
The generators I'm looking at are just the heads - they don't have motors. So they'd have to be ganged, to be driven by a car engine. Like the YouTube video of the motorcycle with 13 chain saw motors. I'm going to contact the power company about the co-generation situation. Some utilitys will subsidise the installation, up to 40% in one case.
And I'm leaning towards a mechanical approach. Spinning a drum against tightly stretched brass wires is similar to the system which was shown many years ago as being capable of producing enough hydrogen to run a car. I don't remember if that article mentioned electrolyte, or if any will be needed. -
#23 ·
My calculations are an example, btw.
In my case and in most ideal situation.
I dont know what you guys will get per kwh and i dont know what you pay for alu and naoh or koh...
For me, even if the costs where double triple etc it would make loads of money....
cheers!
I think the numbers in your opening post are off by a factor of 10. 50kW times 5 is 250, rather than 2500. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner. So that would be $3.50 per hour. Still, nothing to sneeze at. Also my cost for the metal looks like about four times of yours. So this could still double my yearly income. Unless I use some other way to get the hydrogen. Now that I'm all fired up. -
#24 ·
My calculations are an example, btw.
In my case and in most ideal situation.
I dont know what you guys will get per kwh and i dont know what you pay for alu and naoh or koh...
For me, even if the costs where double triple etc it would make loads of money....
cheers!
I think the numbers in your opening post are off by a factor of 10. 50kW times 5 is 250, rather than 2500. Sorry I didn't catch that sooner. So that would be $3.50 per hour. Still, nothing to sneeze at. Also my cost for the metal looks like about four times of yours. So this could still double my yearly income. Unless I use some other way to get the hydrogen. Now that I'm all fired up.
Thanks....aiaiai....didnt see that one...
Still it is profitable
I will change the first post.
So, if you are set to make a 100,000 usd you must use 3 car engines with an alternator capacity of at least 120kwh in totall....
With lets say a 10,000 amount of costs, thats still a lot of money..
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#25 ·
It looks like that you live in a very nice, but remote area
1500 for an acre? Thats insane cheap! In which area are you?
2100 usd for 49kwh is also really good.
However, i know that those little motors are less efficient as one big one, with hydrogen....or hho
I'm 40 miles west of the Grand Canyon Skywalk, 45 miles north of Kingman, Arizona. (That puts me 50 miles from the grocery store).
The generators I'm looking at are just the heads - they don't have motors. So they'd have to be ganged, to be driven by a car engine. Like the YouTube video of the motorcycle with 13 chain saw motors. I'm going to contact the power company about the co-generation situation. Some utilitys will subsidise the installation, up to 40% in one case.
And I'm leaning towards a mechanical approach. Spinning a drum against tightly stretched brass wires is similar to the system which was shown many years ago as being capable of producing enough hydrogen to run a car. I don't remember if that article mentioned electrolyte, or if any will be needed.
Very nice!
Are solarpanels part of your current powersupply?
If you have any info on the drum spinning with brass wires, then please share. I am very curious.
I will try here to create a hydrogen candle setup with my filter and pump ideas....