Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields

Quote from: sebosfato on January 29, 2010, 23:04:28 pm

#2 · date not recorded

I suggest to change this topic name to Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields.

I'm going to post something that you all have overlooked. Its a patent called Energy conversion system and Stanley meyer cited this on his patent called Gas electrical hydrogen generator. It basically shows and clearly explain how stan run his buggy.

Ok i'm saying this just to make you read it!!!

It explain well how the epg principle works!

So now you have an energy source.

Just need to figure out constructing the device and testing.

Steve check it out is only pressure that can do this.

Regards
Sebosfacts

Very very nice!

Steve

#3 · 30 Jan 2010

seb,
are u suggesting the method which stan uses positive charges gasses (electron deficient) to draw current of electrons to gasses from earth ground?? i know stan explains this method in one of his videos..

#4 · 30 Jan 2010

The ionized gas have to do with it the rest no its not related to this

He uses the pressure developed from the cell to generate electricity (or doing work)

He magnetizes the gas and harvest energy from the movement of the continuos expanding gas. (basic principle of dc generation) Generating electrical energy that is used in closed loop (resonance) with the cell, generating more gas and consequentially generating more electricity and so on.

The multiplication factor will depends on how efficient will be the generation of electricity from the expansion. If you can have 80% efficiency you will have a over unity factor of 5. if you have 99% efficiency you will have over unity 99.

To calculate this you need to remember the Q factor calculation in electrical resonance.

Lets take the first example

if you input 1000 watts you have
80%= 800 watts that will generate more gas than
80% from 800= 640 that will generate more gas
and so on...
Than you have 1000+800+640+...= 5000watts output in h2 02

in the second example

if you input 1000 watts you have
99% = 990 watts that will generate more gas than
99% from 990= 980 that will generate more gas
and so on.
Than you have 1000+990+980+...= 99.000 watts output in h2 02

#5 · 30 Jan 2010

can u post the sited document u speak of so i can read it? i understand that there are some perspectives to overunity that deals with linking the expansion of the gas to drive the generation of electric power... one must make the vic work to make the magnetic gas.. if u are saying stan uses the fuel gasses as the magnetic field can u post some documentation explain this.. that perspective i have not come across if thats what your refering to i would like some reference..

little off topic.. stan says that the vic is used to encourage particle oscillation.. particle oscillation means that they themselves are oscillating and i see it as the orbital electrons being the oscillating particle while the denser proton matter is also being effect but are more or less just being stablized during the lighter more mobile electrons oscillation... in order to make a electron move in a orbit this means you not only have to encourage it to go towards the positive but u must also encourage it to go the opposite direction of the positive plate toward the negative... this doesnt mean the negative needs to become positive to pull the oscillating electrons back toward the negative.. it just need to drop in potential back toward the positive direction (0v)... water it self will want to naturally balance and will encourage its own movement in that direction as the neggative pressure drops back toward 0.. and the postive having a fall time as well will weaking its attration force that is pulling on the electron... at the same time the positive choke being isolated from the return of electrons from the secondary can step up each oscillation as it does so the negatives potential in the negative choke due to the bifilar mutiual magnetic attraction will gain and appear as 0.. so lets say it oscillates up to 1000 volts.. then u stop pulsing you then have a high positive plate that isnt oscillating to rip electrons its ionizing them without the need of oscillation until electrons make it back into the positive choke.. like a leaky cap..

#6 · 30 Jan 2010

The patent stan cited is in the first post

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/electrodynamicgas.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHD_generator
http://www.authorstream.com/presentation/samstudd99-74951-magneto-hydrodynamic-system-mhd-education-ppt-powerpoint/
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/smhd.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

#7 · 30 Jan 2010

nice find seb.. i now see what you are speaking of... so do u think that stan uses the non combustables as his neutral gas? i need to wrap my mind around this more.. thanks for sharing

#8 · 30 Jan 2010

I don't know if the nitrogen is involved that much, in this principle. Nitrogen is important only as flame retardant to reduce the combustion speed second my thoughts.

I believe that he had constant pressure from his cell so he just mixed the gas switching with a butterfly valve between air and exhaust to control acceleration. Air for maximum acceleration and exhaust for idling. Obviously he might have limited also the resonant action to a certain degree in somehow as to have a increase in gas production in relation to rpm. I'm still working on that to find some more answers.

I'm happy that you enjoyed!

Stevie I was reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field and found that charged particles have a magnetic field. Ions... Ionized gas...

Probably we need to ionize the gas before it pass thru the tube. Or maybe only the magnets will do the job. I'm happy to say that I don't know yet.

Lets find out!

#9 · date not recorded

Sebos,

The test i ran here, showed NOT 1 voltage rimple whatsoever.
I used a strong magnet around my HHO output and on the same hose, i had multiple coils.
I pulsed the gas, etc etc.
Again, not 1 rimple.

So, if the option is to ionize gas, because that state can be magnetized, then my test would have shown some rimples too.
The gas from a WFC has always some ionized atoms in it, as far as my theory knowledge goes.

I prever to think that Stan might have used the gas and put that thru a magnetic liquid, like Ferrofluid. If you charge the ferrofluid with a magnet and make it move by use of the gasflow, then you have a moving flux and your coils will detect current.

Just my 2 cents for the moment.
Lets all keep looking into this, because it makes a lot of sense!

Steve

#10 · date not recorded

Yes the ferro fluid moved by the bubbles is very much simpler i guess, and i think is easier to replicate too. I was trying to guess what meyer was doing if using only with the gas.

I though about another possibility.

Maybe we could use the photoelectric effect to gain energy and to have a better ionized gas inside the tube. By having a sodium electrode illuminated by a lasers about 400nm. This would give us some oxygen very ionized. I think.

did you tried the plastic tube thing man?

Have you seeing a vortex electrolysis when in presence of magnetic field?

Maybe with the resonant tank we can have enough high voltage to ionize the gases, just guessing again...

I was thinking about The resonant cell meyer used, he had the tubes isolated from each other.

In your design you might have some losses, some ac passing thru the tubes. Because they are not isolated from each other. What do you think about?

Maybe you could try to have one resonance for each individual pairs of tubes, what do you think about? I was trying to think about and thought that meyer used 11 vics so maybe he had different resonance for each tube. I will Still thinking about.

#11 · date not recorded

steve,
gases coming out of the cell are still neutral having no field until they go through the hydrogen fracturing.. after hydrogen fracturing the gas will be electron deficient and will have a positive vacuum field... its the same idea as the epg but it relies on energy from the vacuum to generate current (the highly unstable gas...

seb,
im still thinking about what u were saying about maintaining a constant fuel pressure while just regulating the non combustable and ionized ambient air.... im gonna have to disagree at the moment because in stans video when he first starts running the buggy he specifically states that in order to increase rpms all one must do is vary the voltage being applied to the cell.. so i would say voltage variates acelleration due to increases of quantity and pressure..

Quote

Maybe you could try to have one resonance for each individual pairs of tubes, what do you think about? I was trying to think about and thought that meyer used 11 vics so maybe he had different resonance for each tube. I will Still thinking about.

stan had 10 tubes cells hooked up as dynodon said.. it has 11 holes but one was not active.. each tube had its own vic and each tube had its own pll circuit (resonant tuner) they have to because as stan mentions that resonant varies during gas production do to the gases exhisting in the gap... there is no way that each tube will be changing there dielectric resistance equally simotaniously.. each tube will experience its own distinct variablity during production..... that when it comes to resonant tube cells.. the rotary version going to multiple tubes doesnt appear to have that capability so i would say that may be one major distinction between a resonant cavitiy and the rotary vic

#12 · date not recorded

Hi,

Its a challange to find out what or which components Stan used in his device.
Maybe Don can add something here?

Here are some links on ferrofluids:
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-09/making-ferrofluids-work-you
http://www.supermagnete.nl/eng/FER-01

You can make it yourself. Thats much cheaper.

Sebos,

My resonant circuit has been setup with 5 tubes of the 10 tubes in parallel.
5 for each direction.
I also tried single tube setup, like you have.
My theory is correct that more tubes in parallel will lower total resistance and that way, more current will be consumed (leaked) in the circuit.

Steve

#13 · date not recorded

http://www.physlink.com/Education/askexperts/ae493.cfm

Question

Why is liquid oxygen magnetic?

Asked by: Mitchell

Answer

Actually it is not magnetic but paramagnetic. That is that it is attracted by the magnetic field but does not remain magnetic once it leaves the field. Gaseous oxygen is paramagnetic also but is moving too fast to be affected by the magnets. The reason that it is paramagnetic is because the oxygen molecule has two unpaired electrons. Electrons not only go around the atom in their orbitals, they also spin, which creates a magnetic field. Unpaired electrons spin in the same direction as each other, which increases the magnetic field effect. When the electron in an orbital become paired with another electron in that orbital, the new electron spins in the opposite direction and this cancels the effect of the first electron. Note that according to Valence Shell Electron Pair Repulsion theory (VSEPR), O2 has no unpaired electrons but according to Molecular Orbital (MO) theory it does have unpaired electrons. Since liquid O2 does stick to a magnet, MO theory is better at explaining the behavior.

Answered by: Mark Lockhart, B.S., High School Chemistry Teacher

Firstly, let us define the properties of the oxygen we'll be talking about. O2 has, in total, 12 valence electrons (each oxygen donating six).

For something to be magnetic (we say 'paramagnetic'), it must have an inequality in the total electron spin. The quantum number ms represents the magnetic spin of an electron. It can have values of 1/2 or -1/2, and is an important number when dealing with bonding and the Pauli exclusion principle. When an atom or molecule has an equal number of 1/2 and -1/2 spins such that they cancel each other out, it is not magnetic (we say 'diamagnetic'), and this can be determined from how the different electron shells are 'filled up' by the electrons.

The VSEPR & Valence Bond theories do not explain O2's magnetic nature. However, experiment reveals it most certainly is! Molecular Orbital Theory (MO Theory) is needed to understand how O2 is magnetic. Teaching the basics of MO Theory would take far more time than can be devoted here, so I'll supply a link or two at the bottom for anyone who wants to learn more.

Anyway, the valence electrons fill the molecular orbitals in much the same fashion as in other bond theories, and the Exclusion Principle still holds, but these orbitals have different names. The order in which O2 will fill the orbitals is:

sigma2s, sigma2s*, sigma2p, sigma2p*

Two electrons can occupy each s orbital, while 6 electrons can occupy each p orbital. Following the Exclusion Principle, two electrons will fill both the 2s and 2s* orbitals, 6 electrons will fill the 2p orbital, and that leaves 2 electrons to fill the 2p* orbital. These two electrons will only partially fill this orbital, and will have parallel spins. Since the rest of the electrons are all paired, the remaining two electrons in the 2p* orbital give the diatomic molecule a net total spin (it does not matter if they are 1/2 or -1/2 spins, they will both be the same). Since there is a net spin, O2 is paramagnetic.

Since this isn't really the place to learn MO Theory, if you wish to learn more, see the following site:

Molecular Orbital Theory
by Purdue

Answered by: Philip Johnson, Physics Undergrad, Memorial University

#14 · date not recorded

The fun thing about the last article, is that it confirms Stan Meyer technology.

So, maybe ionization is the next step. That should make the HHO paramagnetic, so to speak. Then test and see if we get a voltage rimple of a coil.

Hmmmm.
Back to my roots...ionization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly_ionized_oxygen
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/ross/phys2080/ael/saha.htm
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-336089.html
http://www.scienceclarified.com/Io-Ma/Ionization.html

Steve

US5381789.pdf

#15 · date not recorded

Steve this explain why ionized gas would have a magnetic field. thanks a lot. Probably using magnetic electrodes to generate the gas we can also have parahydrogen as we were talking about the other day...

have you seeing this ? http://www.rexresearch.com/ehrenhaf/ehrenhaf.htm

About the cell, I think stan isolated his tubes that way in the resonant cell as to not have Ac current leaking thru the cell before the diode if you understand what i mean. Think about... For sure as the area of the cells are greater the resistance will be lower and efficiency will grow up. So loss less high voltage capacitors and thick wire to reduce losses in the tank and you should see more efficiency. Maybe thats why you had more than 1,4 volts between the cells ? ??

outlawstc i'm just considering the cell must operate at a maximum pressure or at least have a limit.
and that air mixed with the gas would give higher rpm than exhaust mixed with it. I was just considering a an acceleration differential or incentive. Off course as the rpm goes higher or you need more power you need to apply more power too. Is the same as gasoline at high rpm will consume more theoretically because on a motor losses increases for each cycle right!

#16 · date not recorded

Ionization energy
Electrons in an atom are attracted to the atomic nucleus by electrical forces. An electron is negatively charged; the nucleus is positively charged. Since opposite charges attract each other, an electron tends to stay with its atomic nucleus.

In order to remove an electron from an atom, then, energy must be provided to overcome the force of attraction of the nucleus. That energy is called ionization energy.

The energy needed to remove an electron differs from atom to atom. Consider the difference between hydrogen and sodium. Hydrogen has only one electron, located fairly close to its nucleus. A good deal of energy is needed to overcome the attraction of the hydrogen nucleus for its electron. Sodium has 11 electrons, one of which is at a relatively great distance from the nucleus. The force of attraction by the nucleus for that outermost electron is small, compared to the force in a hydrogen atom. The outermost sodium electron can be removed with a relatively small amount of energy.

This comparison can be confirmed by looking at the first ionization energy for both hydrogen and sodium. The first ionization energy is the amount of energy required to remove the first electron from an atom. For hydrogen, that number is 1,312 kilojoules per mole, and for sodium it is 495.9 kilojoules per mole. (A mole is a unit used to represent a certain number of particles, usually atoms or molecules.)

Read more: Ionization - body, used, water, process, energy, oxygen, substance, change, Ionization energy http://www.scienceclarified.com/Io-Ma/Ionization.html#ixzz0e6tmbLYz

#17 · date not recorded

Yes and thats why i mentioned sodium sodium tends to oxidize in presence of oxygen (the principle of the electron extraction circuit) This reaction produce electricity. If you use this electricity to drive a laser to ionize the sodium you will release the oxygen without its electrons... does it cost you any?

I'm going to watch steorn.com presentation live right now they will how the over unity principle and explain it right now in few minutes.

#18 · date not recorded

i had one of the coolest 8th grade science teachers.. he taught me much about atoms.. he was the second teacher in line for the challenger mission that exploded at lift off.. lucky for him he wore glasses or he might of been the one in the shuttle... anyways he had pure sodium and we had the chance to see how it reacts.. sodium is highly unstable in ambient air due to moisture in the air.. he kept it in a glass jar filled with kerosene to keep it away from water.. it looks kinda brown and is like a block of cheese... he would put small pieces in a pan of water and it would sizzle.. it was breaking down water and making hydrogen.. after a few seconds it would make a loud pop from igniting.. u could hold it between your fingers and feel it get warm as it sucks moister from skin...

Quote from: sebosfato on January 30, 2010, 16:39:51 pm

#19 · date not recorded

It reacts with the air too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_oxide

This patent http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090010837 talks about use laser to reduce sodium after it released h2 from water.

haithar

#20 · date not recorded

I'm going to watch steorn.com presentation live right now they will how the over unity principle and explain it right now in few minutes.

I missed the show and i'm waiting for the videos to be uploaded tomorrow. Did anything impressive happen? It was probably not the best idea to simply short the coil which acts as a heater instead of applying a lightbulb or something like that. Would have been more impressive.

#21 · date not recorded

Yes haitar i think it would be more impressive if they could light a bulb too. They showed a kind of aways rising signal on the oscope to demonstrate ou. It seemed to me like stanley meyer aways rising graphs. They talk about collapsing the fields ...

If this graph was Current circulating in the shorted coils and voltage. They could have cheated on power factor. I'm not sure but is what it seems. If they used a light bulb they would have a power factor close to one and thus wouldn't work. They had a kind of resonance between mechanical and electrical circuit.

They stated that when you have the magnet closest point to the toroidal coil it has very low inductance (because the magnetic fields saturates the permeability of the core. And that when the magnet is moved far away the inductance increases 99.99% so basically is like if they would not count the back electromotive force when inputing energy on the coil and have a gain from this energy inputed on the coil of 99.99%

I'm not sure if this holds true because you will need to do work to move the magnet away from the coil so i'm not able to do calculations on this yet to prove them are right or wrong.

However they stated also that efficiencies can become greater than 327% with bigger unities.

I think is very possible but i'm not sure.

#22 · date not recorded

Ok, Stan Meyer says:

Hydrogen fracturing process
He talks about ionized mix gasses, but on the second hfp picture he is more specific. Just ionized OXYGEN and energized hydrogen.!!!!

The electrons of the hydrogen atom are much closer to the nucleus then the electrons of the Oxygen atom.
I think we can translated that to the power he used for this process.
High enough to kick electrons of the Oxygen atom and not off the hydrogen atom?

attachment_5458 attachment_5460 attachment_5462 attachment_5464 Stan gas1.JPG Stan gas2.JPG Hydrogen fracturing process.JPG Hydrogen fracturing process number 2 ionized Oxygen.JPG

#23 · date not recorded

seb,

stan explains that its really hard to ionize hydrogen.. but it is not hard to ionized oxygen this is most likey due to density i believe.. stan says when you ionize oxygen the hydrogen is present but the voltage stimulation doest effec the hydrogen. electron . he says that once oxy is in high positive state it will steal hydrogens electron leaving it a proton which is highly unstable...

#24 · date not recorded

All:
Water is an conductor, is it?
So, if a pulsing current is passing a conductor, there must be a magnetic field.
Right?

Does anyone have measured that?

Steve