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Stan’s Legacy

Exciting water mist

Started by unknown · · 25 posts · last reply 29 November 2012

  1. Dave

    #1 ·

    Today in chem lab something happened that blew my mind. After all this time experimenting with water and reading forums I have never come across something like this.
    In lab we were identifying substances by the wavelength they give off when electrons are pushed to a higher energy state and then return to ground state. For practice, we used excited water vapor! It looked just like a neon light. The power supply was only 5kv ac. I don't know if this thread will go anywhere but i thought it was cool!

    attachment_11860 chem lab water mist.jpg

  2. Steve

    #2 ·

    Hi Dave,


    Nice experiment. I never heard of this. Looks like something with potential for our projects.
    Can you tell us more about it?




  3. Newguy

    #3 ·

    This will lead to the Dream Cell :)

    Imagine being able to take an ultra sonic transducer to make the mist mouted in the bottom of the same o.d.s.s.tube with a fan the same o.d. just above the water level line.Next we need a butterfly type check valve..... now the magic... we learn to prevent the stuff enerting stable state ( emission of energy ) we somehow rearange the energy and make the make a gas :)  alla the " dream cell " lol   well  the lab would be a fun place to be right now ;)

  4. Steve

    #4 ·

    This will lead to the Dream Cell :)

    Imagine being able to take an ultra sonic transducer to make the mist mouted in the bottom of the same o.d.s.s.tube with a fan the same o.d. just above the water level line.Next we need a butterfly type check valve..... now the magic... we learn to prevent the stuff enerting stable state ( emission of energy ) we somehow rearange the energy and make the make a gas :)  alla the " dream cell " lol   well  the lab would be a fun place to be right now ;)


    Exactly!
    Thats a good possible option!

  5. Dave

    #5 · date not recorded

    I will see what further information I can get. I won't be able to talked to my professor for s reasonable amount of time till Monday.

    I do know that the tube filled with mist was prepared in a lab somewhere and we are just using it to look at emissions. I believe the tube was prepared simply my filling it with mist and then sealing it. After its sealed the volume is fixed and it would have to creat a vacuum to condense which it can not do at a reasonable temperature. I will get the specifics and anything else I feel is useful as soon as I can.   

    Newguy, I agree!

  6. Dave

    #6 · date not recorded

    I had some time after class today to find out a few things. My professor thinks the tube is at less than 1atm which seems reasonable. As for the operation, it works just like a neon sign. A small amount of current is being past through the gas at a high voltage. The lab specifically designed it to work properly with the power supply. If anyone has any other questions, I will try to pass them along.

  7. Dave

    #7 · date not recorded

    I attach the lab bellow if anyone is interested

     CHE_1031_Lab_10_Fall_12_AWV.pdf

  8. Newguy

    #8 ·

    David, I think a great start with you ,your professor and that lil lab demo would be to ask proffesor if it could be possible to prevent the energy emmission via magnetic,electromagnetic,catalisis... any  imaginable way..... next quest I think would be rearranging the available energy via any way imaginable to form A gas... any stable combustable gas. for some reason i still want to think carbon atoms or nitrogen atoms will need to play some role in the thing but dam i would love to have a proffesor available and a lab an all that stuff .Molecules,energy,ions,and atoms... whoo hoooo :)

    still pondering about this thing and questions to ask.....    why does it take  vaccum to make it work? will it work at all with out vaccum?

  9. Bubz

    #9 · date not recorded

    Can you describe, in detail, the circuit used for the experiment? I am curious and would like to know if there was at least a ballast or choke used in the circuit. Without it, I could almost be certain, the current would kill the circuit.

  10. Dave

    #10 · date not recorded

    The power supply is just a standard neon supply. The current is restricted by the water vapor. The tube was prepared specifically for 5kv.

  11. Bubz

    #11 ·

    Thank you Dave! A simple neon transformer you say? Then, yes there is a choke. But, now I am way more curious as to how they can calculate a tube filled with water vapor(less than one atmosphere) is regulated to have such an impedance. I wish I was there. I'm sure I would have been kicked out of class for so many questions. How do you think the tube is filled and how it is calculated to get the effect you saw?

  12. Dave

    #12 · date not recorded

    Hahah I asked many questions as well but got few answers so far. In lab I asked about the property's of the gas. My lab professor had a book from the manufacturer but it didn't provide any useful information. I then approached my lecture professor who is much more accomplished. He gave a little for information but when I asked about the preparation of the tube he said he could only give me an educated guess and that my questions were getting to much into physics.

    I'm on thanksgiving break till next week. Next Tuesday I will talk to my physics lab professor about it. He was a research chemist for many years and can hopefully shed some light on the subject. Sorry for all the delays in providing information and the lack of information. This seems to be a tricky subject. I'll post whatever I can get.

  13. Bubz

    #13 · date not recorded

    Thanks again for your time and answering my questions. Have a great Thanksgiving!

  14. Dave

    #14 · date not recorded

    I talked to my physics lab professor today, he told me the tube was prepared by vacating the tube and then adding a small amount of water mist. The small amount is why it doesn't just arc across with a high current. he couldn't remember how to calculate it. This is the end of the line, I have no more professors to ask. I think I will put a small amount of mist in a tube under a vacuum and slowly turn up the voltage

  15. Bubz

    #15 · date not recorded

    Great observations! Thank you for sharing! This experiment should be rather easy to replicate.

  16. Bubz

    #16 ·

    Look familiar? See attached pic or the link someone else copied and uploaded to the cloud...
    (http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/EXAMPLEOFLASERSETUPOFMEYER.png)

    attachment_11937 suckmyH2opOWER.png

  17. Steve

    #17 ·

    Look familiar? See attached pic or the link someone else copied and uploaded to the cloud...
    (http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/EXAMPLEOFLASERSETUPOFMEYER.png)

    Who did publish this?

  18. Steve

    #18 ·

    The whole problem i see here, is that you put HV on two electrodes in a hydrogen rich environment.
    PLEASE DONT DO THIS AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The mixture will explode in yr face, if you are not lucky.

    Steve

  19. Dave

    #19 · date not recorded

    Wow look at that. What was Stan using this light for?

  20. Dave

    #20 · date not recorded

    Hydrogen can be dangerous, but if we filled a tube with it and ignited it, the gas would just burn, not explode. Now if the tube was closed, the hydrogen would be isolated from oxygen. I don't think an arc inside the closed tube could do anything more then ionize the hydrogen

  21. Steve

    #21 · date not recorded

    Pure hydrogen ok, ll gues, but hho?

  22. Bubz

    #22 · date not recorded

    Dave, I'm assuming the reason the glowing tube of water vapor was used, was to ultimately show how to find which gases were present by looking at the frequencies of light radiated from the tube. Correct? In other words, a simple demonstration of a spectroscopy test?

  23. Dave

    #23 · date not recorded

    Dave, I'm assuming the reason the glowing tube of water vapor was used, was to ultimately show how to find which gases were present by looking at the frequencies of light radiated from the tube. Correct? In other words, a simple demonstration of a spectroscopy test?

    Yup, the water mist was practice but we had a bunch of unknowns. We looked at the emission lines with a spectroscope and then looked up the unknown substance in reference books.

     
    Pure hydrogen ok, ll gues, but hho?

    yeah, hho would be relatively dangerous in a closed tube under this condition. 

  24. Bubz

    #24 · date not recorded

    Dave, do you recall which substances showed on the spectrograph? Didn't Hydrogen and Oxygen both show up in the results?

  25. Dave

    #25 · date not recorded

    Dave, do you recall which substances showed on the spectrograph? Didn't Hydrogen and Oxygen both show up in the results?

    The emissions lines were consistent with H2O. The emission lines given off are specific to each substance, even isotopes of the same substance have slightly different emissions. Most of the reason for differences is the arrangement of electrons. Since the arrangement of electrons in H2O is different from the arrangement of hydrogen and oxygen, different emission lines will be given off. I hope I'm understanding your question correctly. I will consult the text book for more information.

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