webmug

Another quick video demonstrating the cell, scope, and VIC circuit.




TS

Thanks for sharing!

Is it possible to zoom the scope on one step like charge signal? What is the max and min voltage? Where did you connect the scope probe?
Are you pulsing 5v?
What is the input pulse signal to the primary?

Yes, more questions... 

Br,
Webmug

@TS,

Question:
How do you test if you have resonance with the [C] WFC capacitance and [L] positive choke inductance?
Or do you have [LC] choke self-resonance?

Regards

Quote from: webmug on September 06, 2012, 16:47:07 pm

Hi,

Great! GAS!!! 
Do your want to share some pictures of your setup and circuit connections? Also what type of core and WFC you used?

Got scope shots?

Br,
Webmug

Heh, yah, I'm going to document and label the whole setup so I can recreate it again.  I also need to clean up my work area which is a major mess first.

Not sure the scope shots will help too much.  It's only single sided so you can't see the 180 on it.  But you would be able to see the resonance storm signals as I will call it.

Interestingly, there is no step up from primary to secondary either, straight 1:1:1:1:1 for all the coils.  Air core.

WFC is a pair of SS pipes, about 1" long.

I've got a working model to build on now!  (yay!!)

TS

Scope shots always help if you are going to document this! For example the input signal to the primary.
If you place a scope probe unconnected on a wire going to the WFC you see some signals... If you got resonance this also influence the signal also when you touch the WFC delrin insulation. 

Regards!

Yesterday I pulled out a very crude coil set that I had made for an earlier experiment.  I made the coil with 5 wire strands (1 x 28g and 4 x 22g).  They are all wound parallel (quintifilar?  ).   Anyway, since they all share a core, I decided to give it a try with the VIC circuit.  It took about 5 different connection combinations before 1. I got gas, and 2. I was able to witness the actual current limiting effect at resonance.  I had a small analog ammeter in line with the cell and was able to observe it dropping to 10mA and vibrating at the exact same moments that the VIC circuit was locked in at resonance and then see the current go back up when the circuit was tuned out of resonance.  I was sort of shocked by this as this was the first time I could see a steady flow of HHO from the cell using Tony's VIC circuit.

Thought I should share and get some feedback on this.

TS

Hi,

Great! GAS!!! 
Do your want to share some pictures of your setup and circuit connections? Also what type of core and WFC you used?

Got scope shots?

Br,
Webmug

Anyone reporting gas production with Tony's recreation of SM VIC?

My success has been limited, but I have manged to get a minuscule amount of gas production with no visible amps being used.  I used a ammeter that measures from 1 to 50 mA only and the meter didn't even register 1mA.

Anyone else?

TS

Hi timeshell,

Do you have a VIC pack and a scope?

Br,
Webmug

''Have you ever put a puzzle together and almost finished it, but found some pieces were missing?''

No webmug,I am just assumint there are missing parts because as you know don tried the vic unit and did not work,(also hdrocars states in  one topic that the car cannot be started by the owner)or this whole thing is a scam...reply

All I want to say that there are indeed a lot of unknowns why Dynodon didn't make it work.
I do not know how Dynodon tested the setup and why it didn't produce any gas at all. Could be wrong water-type in the cavity and that the connected VIC wasn't calibrated for it, I don't know. Also SM has build in some key parts what he could remove or add to prevent it from operating. Could be.
But the technology SM invented and documented in his words is very convincing I don't think it is a scam.

Electrostatics aren't fully understood in for example his water-capacitor. Preventing current in a water dielectric.

Remember that this is the first step to understand SM technology, there are a lot more steps above this first step to use as a supplement.
For example: Resonant Action.

Br,
Webmug

Why you guys bother copying the skematic from picture and trying to replicate it if don had the original vic and didn't work,if 1circuit for example was hidden/distroied by stanley/or somebody else we construct the whole vic for nothing... don't mean to disapoint just a tought!reply's

Have you ever put a puzzle together and almost finished it, but found some pieces were missing? Do you remember how you felt about that gaping hole right in the middle of your beautiful picture? If you could only find those missing pieces (maybe they're still in the box or under the table, or worse yet, mixed in with another puzzle), then you would have a complete picture at last.
Where and what are these missing pieces to the puzzle? How do they fit into the picture?
Let's find out.

Br,
Webmug

Quote from: webmug on June 11, 2011, 21:04:07 pm

I'm searching for a lookup table for the value of resistors of notation type 1002F / 2221F. Are the resistors 1%?

Br,
Webmug

My two cents...

That will be probably:
1002 = 10000 ohm
2221 = 2220 ohms

Just like with capacitors.....


Steve

Ok, thanks steve. Type of resistors are on the VIC pcb.
Precision resistors are marked with a four-digit code, in which the first three digits are the significant figures and the fourth is the power of ten. F is +-1%

Br,
Webmug

I'm searching for a lookup table for the value of resistors of notation type 1002F / 2221F. Are the resistors 1%?

Br,
Webmug

@Tony
Nice work on the pcb's and VIC bobbins!

I'm very curious how that flat iron powder core is going to preform when pulsed...

I'm searching for iron powder plate/rod material/core, don't want to make one with powder myself.

br,
Webmug

Quote

How much energy in watts  per hour (or joules) needed to spend to convert 1 liter of water in gas? I am interested in the efficiency of the cell.

lets go with some information provided by stans control driver circuit international patent,

stan says at start up the vic will consume about 25 milliamps through the water

Stan states that in a resonant condition current leakage across the cell is 1-2 millamp

stans transformer is a 5:1 comparing secondary to primary

this means that with chokes and secondary wired in series he has a 15:1
if he has 100 percent power transfer on the core then with 12 volts in the transformer should be able to get 180 volts out at the least..

we know stan has a 10.5 ohm primary and a 72.5 ohm secondary

we know that stan used a 20 ohm resistor in parallel with primary giving 6.8 ohms resistance

the series chokes add up to around 218 ohms


ok 12 volts to the primary which has 6.8 ohms of parallel resistance

12v / 6.8 ohms = 1.76 amps
the resistor has twice the resistance then the coil so the coil accounts for 1/3 of the current

1.76amps / 3 = .58 amps

12v x .58 amps = 6.96 watts

so lets see if we can calculate the power in secondary..

if you are getting 100 percent power transfer in the core then the secondary will receive 6.96 watts of total force

6.96 watts / 180 volts = 38 millamps

*Note*  Not sure if any of this is correct also just because i say 180v output of the secondary does not mean thats the total voltage reached.. it is more or less the force applied during step charging..


heres a pic of my vic
I made the core out of a microwave transformer core.. I do not think there is enough interaction with the core and the winds because i do not get total suspected output..  my furthest wind from secondary reads about 4 volts while the secondary will read 18 and the one on the same ucore as primary reads around 7 volts.. the voltage reading being at the highest achievable output in the frequency range of 1-10khz 

I am using 30gauge my secondary is 3000 winds as are my chokes.. they read about 75 ohms
my primary is 500 and it reads about 10 ohms

@outlawstc,
Hey, that's the same I get when I used a iron core. Too low voltage from the secondary coil. That core didn't do anything, so I got ferrite core.
I wound 2000 turn secondary (0.25mm2) and have 200 turn primary (0.6mm2) and get about 150V out. Rewinding the primary...
My core is 8mm round.
My secondary core resonates at 13kHz. When I connect the two chokes (also 2000turns each 0.25mm2) it resonates at 2.5kHz.

Also keep minimal spacing between the chokes and (secondary and primary) on both sides of the U-core legs behaves different.
When too much separated, there are magnetic losses. I have 40mm spacing (measured between center of the coils)

Great setup, wfc and vic  outlawstc! How/where did you made the bobbins?
Is it correct that your wfc cell capacitance is in the nano farads?

br,
Webmug

The primary coil was measured with the resistors removed.All coils were measured unconnected from the rest.
All of my voltage measurements were taken at resonance.When pulsing the primary coil with square waves,you get sine waves as an output of the secondary.I would have to retest to see if the step up ratio shows up.
Don
 
Update:
I just tested my coil setup and this is what I came up with,
 
100 turns primary,  1000 turns secondary
12 volts dc applied to primary
 
Now I performed two test,one without bifiller choke coils on core (not connected to anything)and the other with chokes off core,then tuned to resonance with scope.
 
First test without chokes showed @ 120 volts out of secondary, just hooked to scope leads, and resonance was at 57 khz.This gives you a 10:1 stepup.
 
Second test with bifiller chokes on core and not connected to anything, gave @ 250 volts out of secondary,just hooked to scope leads, and the resonance was at 32.8 khz. This gave a stepup of 20:1.
 
So there is something happening with all coils on the core.It doubled the voltage out of the secondary.
 
Don

@Dynodon
Thank you for the Vic circuit board picture!

Did you connect Scope gnd and signal to the coil output?
When we connect the scope gnd it's changing the output voltage to higher volts than not connecting gnd.

Are you using differential probe?
Still testing without diff probe on my coils and scope gnd connected. I'm not sure if that is right for getting a good reading. Also not clear if gnd must be connected to the wfc cell between choke 2 and secondary coil.

Br,
Webmug

@Tony: Just a little addition. The scope shot you show is wrong in one relation, because you didn't turn the shot upside down, but turned it 180° so the time on your shot is backwards running! Just to mention the difference to my corrected scope shot.
@sebosfato: BTW. What kind of pulsing circuitry are you using. The NE555 Stuff? I would recommend you do it like I did, e.g. I just took a small Microcontroller plugged some VFD to it and soldered a small joystick on it. Finished. Very easy to adjust and to build, and the best part is, the uC already has a comparator on it for easy pickup-coil sensing and self-adjusting. Maybe you can do something similar for yourself.
BTW, when we are just talking about this: When you look at the patent circuit, you see how he designed the circuit, and from this you can definitely say, it is not in a flyback configuration.


Edit: Here's a pic of my driver (on the right side is the coil driver circuit): (as you can see, I'm not a friend of nice packaging )
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1231/driverp.jpg)

Nice uC and driver you have Kali_ma_Amar!
I'm using a STM32 (cortex-m3) uC for PULSE and GATE signal generation. For the feedback and scanner I'm using also Stan his PLL circuit.

I'm very interested if you would share your schematics of your boards.
I'm using a MOSFET driver but want it to swap it to transistor.

br,
Webmug

No I haven't,and I never see Stan do that method either.
Don

Ok, we are talking only about the Resonance WFC system . It was only a thought.
So normal coil as a choke should work best?

Stan mentions DUAL RESONANT COILS/ BIFILAR SPIRAL WRAP COILS for the Injector VIC (580)
The Injector was the successor of the resonance WFC...I don't want to mix the two.

br,
Webmug

All my testing shows that seperate choke coils get higher voltage than bifiller.All wound in same direction,and all of their poles aligned in series around the core.
Don

Did you connect a bifilar choke like this: http://www.k3hkr.com/images/Baluns/BiFoWOUND.jpg and make two of them separate on a core?

br,
Webmug

my cores are UR64/40/20-3F3
I've changed coils so often since that post,I don't know where I'm at now.My latest coils resonate @ 30khz.
My coils are made to fit the window area of each side,can't make them any longer.
Don

Ok, thanks for the update

I'm thinking about winding choke1 (bifilar) and choke2 (bifilar).

The one generating the highest voltage to charge the cell?

1. Parallel- wound, series connected?
2. Parallel-wound, parallel connected?
3. Counter-wound, series connected?
4. Counter-wound, parallel connected?


br,
Webmug

OK I mesured my coils tonight.All of my wire is 30 gauge .010" diameter.
Primary inductance= 200mH ,  200 turns
Secondary inductance= 3H , 1000 turns
Chokes inductance= 6.5H , 2000 turns
Ferroxcube U core,the largest one they make
again my LC resonance is @10khz at @ 1kv at the cell
 
Don

Don,
I try to replicate the VIC coils in the BOX (3-23 VIC).

Is this the core you are using a: Ferroxcube U core U126/91/20?

When Relative Permeability ?/?0 for a U126/91/20 core is 2050.
The choke inductance (no core) should go down from 6.5H to 3.17mH, correct?

It would be nice to know each coil resistance.

Are you using the coil dimensions in the (3-23 VIC BOX) picture?

I'm having difficulty to find the resonance frequency. Not in range 1 - 10kHz.
My sec and chokes are: 48.8Ohm / 153.6mH / 0.25mm2 / 2000 turns (core) 31.7mH (no core)

br,
Webmug

You could use resin and iron powder, or iron oxide...

Looks like laminated magnetic cores, made of thin insulated iron sheets stacked on each other.
br,
webmug

Quote from: Donaldwfc on April 29, 2009, 14:39:09 pm

yea i dono too much about it, do you? i'm trying to learn what they are all about because i see some similarities

Well, the balun is for matching impedance differences.
Its used in HF techniques for matching antenna's. That way you get an optimum in power transfer between transmitter and antenna.
If you do not match the 2 components, no power will be transmitted into the air and yr powertransistor will heat up, because it cannot deliver his power.

The resonance charging chokes are mostly for powersupplys. With a resonance charging choke, you can use a smaller transformer.
The chargin choke and diode, are setup in a way that it will deliver max twice the voltage as the powersupply can deliver.
Have a look at the this website.
Richie is very clear in his explanation. But there are others on the web also explaning the same fenomenon.

Br
Steve

Using a Balun as a resonant charging choke?
Not HF air wound but on a (iron) core more windings and lower resonance frequency?
Not impedance matching for antenna but a WFC!

br,
Webmug

Yes I noticed that too today, of course you know why?

Nikola Tesla (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943)

br
Webmug