uziao

Yes, I agree. Duty Cycle Pulses were Stan's method of controlling this sustained polarization and bursting amplitudes.

Also, most people never realize the great inhibition on tuning pulses and core saturation, that a percentage based duty cycle adjustment causes. All your signal generators are flawed, making it nearly impossible to tune replications of Stan's circuits due to all the differences in the VIC Matrix caused by parasitics and ideal vs real component behaviors.

Only having independent width and spacing control circumvents this flaw. I'm writing an article on my research on this subject that I will share sometime soon.

I dont know. Stan has the 7490 I.C in the circuit. this chip divides frequency and outputs a 50-50 duty cycle, so he never adjusted duty cycle in the high frequency signal, he only adjusts the gate (low freq signal) pulse and width. In the images where the primary signal is round and stretched is the result of transformer action only, not electronics.

So far, I never saw someone increasing the voltage at the cell with decreasing current at the same time. More voltage = morre current, always, thats ohms law. If you apply a HV pulse, current will flow based on the cell resistance.

Amperage is absolute minimum with such short periods. <200mA max, but as low as 5-10mA in certain cases which are inversely proportionate with gate offtime.

Is this peak? RMS? How are you measuring it?

LC transient response to DC is identical to the LR circuit.

Its LR and RC, not LC.
Yeah the waveforms are similar, but current and voltage are inverted in the components. Capacitor lags voltage peaks current, inductor lags current peaks voltage.

YOu have an LR circuit, your cell voltage has the same waveform of a resistor voltage in series with an inductor.

You have exactly the blue curve in your first pic, the inductor current waveform, multiplied by the resistance of your resistor (water capacitor), gives you the "water capacitor" waveform.

This is my water cell. Seems to act like a capacitor to me.

If you check the current, it will have the same waveform, it wont be a capacitor current waveform.

https://industrial.panasonic.com/content/data/common/ss-files/tech14-06_ww.png

Your waveform is only a result of Icell x Rcell. It looks like a charging capacitor because the inductors are lagging the current, and the current, multiplied by the resistance of the cell, gives you this waveform. But this waveform is only the inductor current waveform.

Yes, the current and voltage are always in phase. I just made it work the way he said it was supposed to. That's what I found. I kind of thought of it as a resistive inductor because the metal tubes polarized and stored a charge. I was able to disconnect the circuit and put a LED across the cell and keep it lit for about 20 seconds as the charge bled off the cell. That is only the tubes not the circuit.Stan talks about changing the structure of the metal.

That's not how I made the chokes.

You'll never polarize and crack water with current and voltage in phase, you'll only do electrolysis, when you increase the voltage, more and more current will flow. I put my "water capacitor" inside a resonance lc circuit, with 300V input, my pulse peaks at 1000V at resonance, I have much gas, so much that it pops out of the top of the container, but the current peaks are insane, pure electrolysis. It could be a more efficient type, but nothing about low current and high voltage.

If you want to keep the LED on for longer, you need to replace the plates material. Instead of two plates of SS, use one SS and other made of aluminum and change water for sulfuric acid. This is a well known technology, called "the battery".

Quote from: uziao on September 10, 2022, 17:31:00 pm

Well, I made this test over and over. From DC to 1GHz, it acts as a resistor, with voltage in the cell beign Rcell x Icell. No voltage/current returning when switching off signal, only resistance (voltage and current are linear functions). The cell can hold aprox. 1,5[V] before electrolysis begin and thats all.

As Stan said:

Quote

Water now becomes part of the Voltage Intensifier Circuit in the form of "resistance" between electrical ground and pulsefrequency positive-potential ... helping to prevent electron flow within the pulsing circuit (AA) of Figure 1-1.

You are correct Uziao

IF the chokes are made so that the electrons can not flow at a high rate through the positive choke and hit the forward diode, but rather get trapped in the choke, the positive tube will polarize.(just like Stan states). It also has to be on a floating ground so the current is limited. (isolation xfmr).

The reason your not getting more than 1.5v on the cell is because the electrons are whizzing right through the positive plate into the choke so fast a positive charge can not build up on the plate.
For example,  The gap of the cell and the conductivity of the water determine how much voltage will build up on the cell. A .060 gap with rain water will start making gas somewhere around 24volts. Tap water would  be around 14v. (straight across the cell) A tighter gap would also give less voltage.  This is all dependent on how the chokes are made.

Go to 1:04 in the video
[youtube]https://youtu.be/qnILxgpNjfI?t=64[/youtube]


In my tests, with a .060 gap and rain water, The pulse train would charge up to the 24v level. Meaning the whole pulse train floats positive. From there with continued pulsing, it would step up to 90v. When pulsing is stopped. The pulse train will drop fast to the 24v level then very slowly down. (the gas output is still a function of the current in the circuit)

So, once the threshold level is met we get electron crossover from ground and electrolysis. If this was not the case the cell would keep charging higher and higher (like he states).

He does a lot of mixing different processes with his patents etc to cover all the bases for patent infringement. What he describes applies to water vapor in the water injector because it is in a different state. If this is applied to that, then it all makes sense. The voltage and resistance go sky high. However, it is also possible to do it on a small scale like I did, but your not going to be making boat loads of gas.

When you change the water type and cell gap, you only change the resistance of the cell, therefore you need more voltage to push the same current thru it, if you put distilled water the 1.5v can climb up to 50v before electrolysis start. You'll always have the voltage in phase with current, never high voltage only polarization, you cant change it with chokes, resonance or whatsoever. When you polarize a resistor, current flows thru it. The real capacitor has a dielectric that does not allow DC current across it, the water capactor does not have this, therefore DC current will always flow thru it, like a resistor. The water capactior will never show a phase shift between current and voltage, even in its "polarization" phase. The result is both in phase, always, as in a resistor.

Measure your current with a carbon resistor, along with the voltage across the cell, and post the results to us. I did this many times, and the voltage waveform is identical to the current, V=R.I, linear function, more voltage = more current and never the opposite, thats impossible in a resistor, no matter how the chokes are. When you have bigger chokes, you have low voltage in the cell because they restrict all the current in the circuit. I have a Tektronix TPS 2014, so I can see both current and voltage directly in the same circuit without the need of isolation, this way the measurements are more accurate.

Yeah, if you do not have enough voltage to start electrolysis, you have no current flowing, whats the point? How does this relate to high voltage water dissociation? All my tests were made with high voltage and the cell behaves always like a resistor. If you restrict the current, using inductors, you`ll have less voltage in the cell, and therefore less gas, because as I said, Vcell = Rcell X Icell.

Just sweep your cell from DC to 1GHz monitoring current and voltage, absolutely no phase shift between them, using a power sweep, 100V DC at least. It`s a resistor. You`ll never get "pure voltage potential" in a resistor to split the water. And dont forget to use a carbon resistor as a current shunt for current measurement, wire resistors give false readings.

Quote from: X-Blade on November 22, 2021, 14:36:50 pm

Just saving everyone's time and frustration.

Andrija Puharich talks about resonance to be the most current with the less power applied, Meyer talks the opposite with almost same circuit (inductors and transformer) with exception of the diode.

Everyone who think by their own head will question all of this.

with serie resonance, thats what it is. Current and also voltage. out of phase......The voltage creates the "pressure" and then the current can boost in. That how you get lots of current going thru a wfc...

now the question is: how high can you go with voltage to charge up a bifilar coil? What are the upper borders?
Of course it depends on the amount of windings and wire resistance, but still...
Lets say, we take a ferriet core with 400 bif windings...
How high can you go with volts?

Well, as I stated in the other post, the voltage in the cell is directly proportional to the current passing thru it. No matter how many turns your bifilar has, if it does not have the capability to feed many amps to your cell, you wont have high voltages at your cell, unless the resistance of your cell is huge (with the cell beign small). My cell has 100 Ohms resistance, I need 10 amps peak to have 1kV in it. In my case, if I had 1000t bifilar with awg35 wire, I would never reach kV in my cell, I can achieve with kV with 200t, awg23, but is pure electrolysis. If 100V is applied to a 100Ohm load, you'll always have 1amp, you'll never get to restrict the current without lowering the voltage, this is ohms law. You cannot apply 100V to a 100ohms load and have only miliamps, and it does not have anything to do with the frequency, you can sweep you cell from DC to 1Ghz, the frequency response is flat.

Thats another question:
Will the water capacitor resonate since it behaves like a resistor and does not have any phase shift between voltage and current?

Resistors can resonate if the frequency if high enough to use the leads parasitic inductance and body capacitance, but it should be a very high frequency (MHz range probably)..., not a few kHz.

I wish i could feel só sure…

Só far o know nothing About stanley cell since o Didnt meet him in life

Isdifrerent than havingsmall electrodes pretry much different

The resistances are diferent in different parta Of the cell depending what conduction mechanism is in place

And specially when resonance take placê in relacione with the magnética firlds

Well, physics says that when you charge a capacitor, the dielectric gets polarized and displace chages to the other side. If he coated the tubes in order to increase resistance, it is the coating that is beign polarized, not the water.

All I know about the real work I got from the guys who went to Stans estate and took the pictures. In the flat vic transformer, the wires were copper, and the electrodes were plain 304 SS, no coating. As he had 10 cells wires in series, and 10 flat vic transformers in the car module, he probably connected all the 10 transformers in series in order to drive the 10 series cells.

What i mean is like a rolling foil leving a spiral Chanel  within the electrodes

Resistances can be increased the more turns you put in

In this way you are reducing the electrode area, which will increase resistance, you are right. But is easier to make smaller electrodes then. Even though, for 1kV/10mA, you'll need a resistance of 100kOhms, which is impossible to get like this.

And again, Meyer didnt insulate or put anything in between his tubes, here lies the secret...

Read the US Patents by Meyer, and his 2 BOOKS! . It is stated that the voltrolysis electrode concentric tubes have a premade coating installed first, so as there is greater resistance through the water. The polarization still works. Also Meyer did not use standard insulated copper magnet wire on the ferrite transformer secondary side. It was RESISTANCE type wire from off a special reel , so as the end circuit has much higher resistance. The metal pipes are also special type stainless steel, so as no contaminants get into the water. (not 302). You cannot make  judgements calls from off of the top of your head, without studying the tech documents.That, of course, means to spend money for some of them. Others are actually on the Internet to read for free.

He was putting very high STRESS on the molecular bonds of molecules, until instantly they EASILY fall apart.  Primary and secondary  transformer  fires for a lowered pulse voltage, then SHUTS OFF, the flyback effect fires higher than 1500volts to separate water molecules to EXTREMELY fine bubbles + foam -flowing upward. If you see just small bubbles , that's only H2 and O2. If large bubbles are seen, that's only water vapor. If any heat is noticed, that's is also NOT A Meyer cell for the Patented name Thermo Explosive Energy.

Meyer work has many levels, from the flat vic transformer to the SS wire injector transformer. In the flat VIC transformer, he used ordinary copper wire and had no insulation at the tubes. Could you please print and then post the picture here, where is his books or his patents where he states that: " the voltrolysis electrode concentric tubes have a premade coating installed first"? Thanks.

As recently i tried to point

Adding a foil Of Mylar roled between the concentric cells Force the Electric field 90degrees and lengthen it

Suming with magnetic fields

Bang

Now its high resistance

Well, there is no evidence that Stan put anything between his tubes and water. You'll charge the mylar instead of charging the water, which I think is not the objective here. Insulating the tubes avoids current flow, which I believe is necessary (even a few miliamps).

But worth a try.

Quote from: uziao on September 02, 2024, 22:36:38 pm

If you have low current at the cell, the voltage at the cell will be Current (I) x Cell resistance (R).

For an 100Ohms cell, you need 1 amp to give you 100V.

Someone need to demonstrate how to violate ohms law first to assure that he had high voltage at the cell.

It is impossible to reach kV ratings in an 80Ohms cell using miliamps... And there is no phase shift between current and voltage at the cell...

You are thinking correctly.
Watch Ravi's channel where he shows the white coating on the pipes. This plaque, or rather its resistance, increases the voltage at low current.
There are about 5 methods to reduce the current to 0.001 ampere, but they must be used all together and synchronize their work with each other

You are right, I already saw that at Ravi's channel, but all of Stans tubes have no white coating on it, so he must be using another technique...

Another point is that we cant use anything between the tubes and the water as insulator. A capacitor polarization occurs at the dieletric. Our aim here is to have displacement charges at the water, which should be our "dielectric". Anything in between will be charged instead of charging the water.

Sure, I need to study more, sorry for beign so stupid.

Its obvious that Stans tech have nothing to do with ALL current stablished physics laws, he made his own laws of course. How can I be so stupid?

Sorry.

If you have low current at the cell, the voltage at the cell will be Current (I) x Cell resistance (R).

For an 100Ohms cell, you need 1 amp to give you 100V.

Someone need to demonstrate how to violate ohms law first to assure that he had high voltage at the cell.

It is impossible to reach kV ratings in an 80Ohms cell using miliamps... And there is no phase shift between current and voltage at the cell...

I’m not totally sure if the length of the wire is so important… also this long coils resonate at much lower frequency than 100kgz from what I remember from testing.. 

I believe there’s a contradiction between Stan words and what was shown

Meyer talk about bifilar all the time and this Vic’s founded  don’t seem to have any bifilar coil in it….

For me it’s more likely that the epg were the real used Vic than those

When applying a frequency above the self-resonant frequency of the coil supposedly than the signal is transported in the coil by capacitive effect meaning the coil kind of behave some like a capacitor above it’s resonant frequency… and what that mean?

Well it mean that when you apply a voltage to it it gets charged like a capacitor would… a simple coil would reverse its polarity immediately after it’s disconnected however a coilpacitor will be able to discharge the capacitive side of the coil first and only after that get the reversal of polarity… basically energy get consumed since the capacitance charge is opposite polarity to the inductor at the moment just where the current is interrupted…

Probably not important. If I remeber correctly the 3 3000 turns coils connected in series resonate at 15-18khz with the thin vic core. With thicker cores I have it goes down to 9-10 khz.

Well supposedly when resonance is reached in the cavity according to Meyer there is a kind effect on the current flow… the question is what resonance he was talking about? In that patent he talked about matching the wavelength of the movement of the ions or something very close to that…

If the resonance is in the audio range than it may not be so hard to get it ringing…

If we look at the flat vic core, matching the wavelenght makes more sense. The flat core VIC has aprox 750m of wire. Assuming he used quarterwave length, the fundamental freq has a 750mx4 = 3000m. 3000m is the wavelength of a 100khz signal assuming an air core. With a ferrite in the middle the inductance increases and the fundamental will lower a little bit.

Seems more plausible. I had the flat vic transformer with the identical core and windings but no sucess in achieving resonance. The only difference is that I didnt have 10 cells in series, apart from the fact that Stan probably wire the 10 VIC transformers in series to drive the 10 series tubes.

If he had 10 vic transformers in series, 100khz fundamental would drop to 10khz just like he said in his patents and yes, the transformers works in series and it is a very common stuff in some high voltage circuits like co2 laser cutter power supplies.

The only way I see to reduce the current is to purify water… but than no electrolysis happens!

Even if the water if purified, the current voltage relationship will be positive linear, increasing voltage will increase current (much less current, of course because purified water has higher impedance).