Was wondering about the honeycomb grid if its stainless. Then underneath is the bismuth and Neo magnets that make up the positive section. Does anyone have the capability of using bismuth and neodymium as one electrode?
In Dingles first page of the application he states nuclear energy and that's where the bismuth must come in maybe?
I don't know as I could not tell about the hydrogen strength with the coil in this tube set up.
My new tube set has magnets in the nozzle.
The hydro_star toroid coil was pulsed at a divide by 10 of the tube frequency. The coil is only a electromagnet pulsing anyway. Thats the reason I am trying magnets.
Really believe from all research that the magnet flux will align whatever molecules in gas or hydroxy. I am now starting various tests with magnets to produce these effects we have read about.
One large reason for this is I have a very small enclosed test cell and when I had pulsed it just right the gas came out of it in large bubbles and erratically away from the tubes. It was magnetically enhanced no missing this as I have never seen it before. Instead of the stream of tiny bubbles I got huge clear bubbles that left the surface and when ignited were also many times much stronger than a stream of small bubbles.
The small test cell Meyer based, water went in the bottom of the middle tube_rod through holes into the center between the tubes then up to holes again into the top of he middle rod and out. It only worked like this at a certain tune point. This small set_up had huge magnetic effect on the gas. Magnetized or aligned gas is enhanced and stronger.
Thats my opinion and what I found out with an enclosed tubing test.
I have a feeling much of this is other than the build thats chosen is because of choke coils. The choke coils actually need to be a specific size for each individual set up of tubes or plates.
Here is a Hydro_star, built near 7 years ago. Never did like it too much and the costs were very high for my first build.
Inside is exactly what the first set of plans instructions have with the recommended parts. The water level switch, the wound magnetic toroid, large tube diameter but only 5-6" long with a very tight precision gap. All the PVC rings made and mountings assembled just like the instructions.
I do not recommnd the short tube_set. If you try the Hydro_star make a real large one. Also still have the first circuit that did not work.
A photon hitting a metal plate releases an electron, has nothing to do with a photon release after electron accelleration. There are theories that there is an electron cascade effect using photons. My point is the photon injection method seems to me is made to release electrons in the water. These released electrons may have an effect that is helpfull. The splitting of water has numorous stages of oxygen and hydrogen developement. These active electrons may be what is needed to slow the reaction of the O and H to recombine, thats what I feel. Or at least this is what I'm making out from what I read from early theories. I may be wrong. Also there should be in this type of setup a way to reclaim some of these electrons as there will be many. If the oxygen has a way to pick-up some electrons maybe it will stabilize and not recombine to water, is what I'm thinking. The frequency of the light source may not have to be a part of the spectrum (UV?) to split water . Being that a photon will release an electron on a metal surface leaves that surface or metal in a postive mode.
Anybody else with an opinion or a experiment, please jump in and help clarify.
I was wondering why I harbor all these symtoms. So your telling or showing me that I must be on the right track. (fart fart - oh my headache, why do I feel depressed, damn ringing in my ears;)
The company were trying to share this information with is Dwyer.
According to my budddy they don't make one for browns gas. They plan on making one thats affordable in the $100 range, designed with specific materials and tempurature ranges because of the heating when using chemicals.
Just that specific gravity thing. Any numbers from anyone they have heard about or seen posted somewhere.?
Bubz yes there's stuff available in the ol garage to play with: Large NST 15kv 30ma but this thing is too much weighs a good amount of poundage. Small NST 6kv don't know the ma its still in a box somewhere here. Size easy to work with. Spa ionizer that just needs clock timer disabled. Another easy to work with. Based on flyback circuit. 3 6-1's and one of those was designed and made to output an enormous voltage, 1 has blown choke wire due to arcing, 2 are usable. Other home made transformers with HV possibility's, I thinks I may have center tapped one of those. 2 microwave trans that have possibility's. Stainless screen - stainless rods - etc. Pond fogger ultrasonic device. Poundages of various magnet wire and bobbins and cores. Can wind any transformer easily. Sorry about the list, but just to show the availability of some pieces needed.
With respect to others a determined mentality that fails to see the control aspect of building these devices. There's the lack of electronic knowledge needed to control the various circuit and output potentials. I kick myself for not putting this area together.
Sorry for any leading along. As I was still interested in the basic ionizer setup and maybe all the related data has not yet been set forth.
Yes the ionzer spreads all-over into the various parts. Somehow I thought resonant and resonance of the WFC were off topic and stirred alot of interest but at the same time several answers still did not show tell explain exactly the point. Bubz was doing a pretty good job and Steve has input some reference here.
WFC resonance is very touchy to acheive, and its a huge subject and needs massive experimentation. Still over the years I have not seen the real magic maybe its a fairy tale but the few people have acheived this magic and to input the information and details in our minds of that moment and working at it and not seeing the result is sort of depressing, never giving up sucks up your time and costs money. I can just imagine how many coils we have all built to find the result. I have a box getting full of them, actually a few small box's and that includes lathed and milled bobbins. The time-constant between the plates, the first pulsing charge making its alignment, step charging through the coil. When all details are figured properly the current lowers and the voltage rises. Q factor is the efficiency. The efficiency is when the current wave form is in line with the voltage wave form and can be acheived by frequency change and is to due with inductive and capacitive values, where it all match's. You look at it and see a dualism, but its really one circuit properly made and tuned. No one has found it and published the details other than the you know who's. We are struggling here big time.
To tie all of it together it's the magic would like to have. Do you know how many days nights and how much time I've spent its near depressing. Thats why I'm after other details and areas and need to give this part a rest. We can read books patents details all night and day and talk about it for years but in the plain overview no-one has put their finger on this. Yeh you can explain it but you can't make it. Don't tell me thats not depressing in some sort of way.
Looks like Bubz wants to talk about the WFC injector, sounds good to me.
Personally I think the injector should not do the mixing of the air-exhaust-water. This should be done at a small manifold with adjustment capabilty maybe in the form of a needle and seat to be able to adjust each level of the 3 various gas supplies. Also its very simple to install a small window and small laser source. When you get to this point who will analyze and balance the 3 supply gasses? It appears a ionizer is setup right after the mixing of the supply gasses. And that could have details also, just like ionizers we were talking about but a different body and electrode design.
Let me throw out something thats bothering me about this. What drives the gases into this mixing manifold, they need a pump to create pressure. What pumps are available? What drives the pump? There are various methods. Maybe we could all shed some light on the parts of this circuit. Sounds like its getting harder, maybe there's a vacuum method or something that is much more simpler and easier?
What I see is a lot of variables in the voltage of your power supply. To a point at and or near corona discharge would be a adjustment of your electrode spacing. I don't think corona discharge is needed for the ionization but just a vicinity ionization. In case of corona discharge and then a real short-arc there would be a ballast or maybe some coils to help restrict current from flowing over and drawing to high to effect the power supply. Its almost like a safety.
When I stuck my ionizer in a water bath you figure it should have shorted the power supply. I imagine the resistance of the windings to current flow saved the power supply. I thought resonance is the condition where the current and voltage are both at matching peaks to each other. A PLL and pick-up winding would adjust the frequency so the peaks are in unison. At that point it becomes the most efficient and current will drop or be at its highest efficiency. In our situations for cell type circuits I understand the voltage rises too. I wonder if voltage rises because we don't use a earth ground, its floating reacting with the transformer?
Here's a video from Jetijs on the ionization and the self wind it creates. Also note I think his positive electrode is just a single centralized straight piece appears on the side and the negative is a frame of some sort. With this setup it appears the ionization is done in general vicinity and its hard to see any corona discharge. Very nice simple and informative.
Bubz, Sorry to hear about your little brother, may he rest in peace. Hopefully you have many fond memories, I lost my little brother when we were very young.
I guess the measurement device will come in handy for being able to point out neg or pos charged particles on a scale even. On hand I have a 600mg perhour device and looks like to use for this application will have to rewire into the new electrode design. Also other ionzers that may be possible, a small spa unit found at pool supply of fish tank supply, they come with timing circuits you may have to disable. Have to work on that electrode setup. The vortex is just for mixing or swirling action isn't it? Or should we design an electrode setup aound the vortex blades? Is it possible to use maybe some tungston wire isolated from its base (maybe a couple inch PVC pipe base placed so it won't melt?) and 2 electrodes sort of cross hatch woven under or over that vortex, or 2 large stainless steel screens with enough seperation between? Also I tested this ionizer under water just to see if it could make a bubble. Put it in a bucket of tap water and didn't notice anything. Tried for about 3 minutes. Then reassembled the unit and it still works and am using it last few months for ionizing my smoking area which is the garage. The ionizer helps get rid of the smokey residual smell very quickly.
Don't know if this is the type of ionizer you have in mind but its in my grasp and ready to be used as I had purchased it for this originally. Also wanted to mention as it may be helpfull a small used working pull Neon Sign 6kv supply might be able to be purchased at ebay for as little as $10.00. Picked up one a while back.
You got something in mind and sounds good although it appears you are holding back. (Maybe for the interest for more involement and other listeners). I understand about no-names! No problem with me, its aggreed that involvement has to have a certain level of privacy for all, and no fear. How about it any others to jump in?
You have and are sparking my interest, I'm behind you.
I suggest you get started, lets discuss the geet parts and assembly once more other than Stevie's geet thread project. Allow me to suggest, start a new thread. Hopefully there will be something to point out and make this as easy as possible to replicate (in laymans terms), not just for myself but for others. Maybe you can post some facts of experience. I'm sure you have experienced some of the problems associated with the technology and have altered them to the appropriate construction of the device and its variables of use.
You have something important to convey, see if we can get some projects moving along or at least started. Maybe we can build the replication followers slowly, to get this started along. There is no fast way and will never be. One step at a time, change does not happen overnight. In order to make it happen it must be initiated and started.
From seeing technology evolving over the past few years I think its accepted to the point of open arms with much of the population. Also like you say there is possibly a fear from sources or organizations maybe, where this implies privacy is needed. You seem a little hesitant, lets try to put that to rest and open this up.
Okay we have just shifted the idea presented earlier to another idea basically in the same catagory, that is still a excellent choice. Combining several of the principals that can be used on a large motor eventually, but something more practical that can be made and installed possibly with ease and a few parts. Moved from a engine to a motor, no problem. More realistic to prove a point. Geet has many possibilities anyway, its a fine choice.
Bubz, if I may say you remind me of someone. (Thats a good thing)!
The GEET technology has been broken down many times. Do you have or can you add something that makes this even easier for a layman to put together and install? Apparently it appears easy but another breakdown of the tech is always good. So what are you suggesting?
Just to ponder here is the beginning of WFC installation of the type that has the most efficiency that I have seen. Meaning this device outputs 2LPM roughly at 10amp current. It will pay for itself, time of payback depends on how much you drive. Its easy to attain twice the mileage on a vehicle with a booster. Apparently a small motor V4 - V6 will do better in mileage gains. Higher the compression will help on more mileage. Maybe large V8 won't find that doubling. Here's a couple of pics: rough in.
I don't want to change the direction of this discussion. But for something easy to install on a vehicle a booster delivers the goods. I was interested in some sort of ionization that could also enhance this booster. Maybe at a later time.
Bubz thats great information. Lets find a example for a basic test in a garage test environment. I take it since the ionizer will use its own EHD or MHD effect so particles build up and circulate in a vicinity of near proximety unless other air currents would move them further. But what of the oxidizing process, in this most basic form of ionizing air?
Lets consider a few test situations. Auto intake, installed in the airfilter sounds good but what of the mass air-flow sensor right after the intake does it suffer oxidations and ruin the sensor? Older auto without sensors, in air filter above carburator, what happens to the carburator body over time? Do we mix hydroxyl with it? Will hydroxyl ignite if going past corona discharges, if so it must be installed after ionizer electrodes.? Other applications would be a weld torch, cooking burner, furnace heater, etc.
What are the effects of oxidation to surrounding metal parts? Once this is figured is there a line of too much or too little ozone to create the proper effect, so a controlled output may be in order. By looking at Meyers drawings of the patents or memo's you see this process being used completely throughout the whole automobile.
In order to start what would you suggest as to the most basic form of electrode and maybe how to create a control for the process. From reading other patents there is a point of too much, how can we determine whats too much ozone?
Just trying to see what you got in mind for applying and controlling the process maybe in just a test apparatus.
Bubz, By all means share the information we are all ears. The WFC and all related are still wide open as it appears there are a few experiemnters but nothing of any significant difference has been made or shown.
I understand the ozone part of the processor. Have not looked into polarity of this process after all most of the aim is to pull off an electron from the shell of oxygen. No one ever spoke of nitrogen, but I believe its here that the nitrogen is also effected. Also there seems to me there is a dualism.
Sure oxygen with its radicals in various forms od O o2 o3 o4 o5 and maybe more! But what of the 78% of nitrogen that is not spoken of. Okay maybe the reformed oxygen effects the water molecule a little I don't know as there is no real proof here yet shown. To add to the what if, that 78% of nitrogen went through the same field as the oxygen on those polarized plates of hi-voltage in some of the other threads they are speaking of ammonia also. I think its all in the process because pretty much if you are messing with oxygen you are messing with the nitrogen too!
So now you have various stages of (O) and (N) charged water H2O few H1's More of the H2's then mixes of NH3. All happening at the cylinder after the mixture leaves the injector with its last hi-voltage field. We know that O3 is not that good of a product to have around various metal surfaces from the fact it produces oxidations. So maybe there is not enough O3? to be an oxidant. Or maybe the final O3 charge is absorbed in the final water mist?
Bottom line I agree is that the procerss of air-ionizers is very much the same process as what is being used here to produce the final fuel. Yet many unanswered questions, and a huge opening here for devices to be made.
So on the question of polarity, how exactly can we change the polarity?
John, looking around at the PDF's and references of photons oxygen and hydrogen there are several points of absorption.
I is noted in many of the documents absorption in a certain frequency kicks the electron further out meaning it gets to another N-band further from the nucleous. Which kind of tells you that nucleous took on a charge and because of that pushed the electron out further. Now its noted that if the process is done right it can absorb the right wavelength and kick the electron even further. Then again and over again if you have figured the wavelengths properly. (for oxygen there are several wavelengths in the visual spectrum). Hydrogen too but not as much as oxygen.
Thats a lot of science, so when I looked at this process and said to myself what if I have a photon source that instead of being focused into one wavelength was a spread spectrum source. So it had multi-wavelength output. Over time that led me to flash bulbs, and arc-lamp type sources. Reading up on a xenon gas arc-lamp it has a huge spectrum spread, pretty low in UV band too, but not at the low hydrogen absorption point but will cover many details or the spectrum spread. I chose xenon flash to experiment with and one big reason being the dollar amount. Although I have collected and saved many xenon short arc-lamps I decided a xenon gas flash lamp will have multi-spectrum photon frequencys. A short-arc lamp can cost $100 and up per piece. A xenon flash maybe $5 and up. Xenon flash is used in photography because it has a wide spectrum and the picture would come out nice. If you used a single spectrum light source you would end up with a picture with that reflected color band for a back light.
There are several ways to use a WFC and pumping water through the cell can be pretty interesting just like Kevin West does. Did you notice his new 7 pair cell looks real nice. Still you have tiny bubble water or milky water. Its not changing anything whether the milky stuff is in a cell or another container or sprayed and misted its still milky and still water attached to bubbles because unlike charges attract. Thats the problem no-one has dealt with to overcome. They just don't see it the way I am seeing it. People say oh its a good thing and its good to let it reprocess through the cell again. (didn't change anything). Well I'm telling you that it doesn't work that way for me because thats not the answer I'm looking for.
If I'm working with old cell technology then lets bring up the ante some and find out what it takes to remove the milky bubbles into the gas form they should be. So it made me wonder why KOH and Naoh allowed the water to release the bubbles that much easier. Now you have metallic substance potassium or sodium and a high alkalinity and easy current flow through the water because of the metallic substances. This may be the reason why the water easily takes a positive static charge and the gas made takes a positive static charge and 2 like charges repel each other its fundamental, and something to do with alkalinity I think.
So that now leads me to ionization of water which in theory should produce the same effect as using chemicals. Eventually I will build the few parts to get this tested, I have convinced myself that this theory is at the worst partially correct if not hitting the nail on the head. Ionization of water also changes the clustering structure of water (questionable). Its a step process and a good one to keep working the molecules down further and splitting them up to smaller pieces until eventually its all split. Isn't that the idea of this whole ordeal? Then use the product in with many different energy and fuel processes.
Johnd I think you did well with insulating the tubes, as this will have less leakage from the tube to the water bath and isolate the signal much more into the tube-set. You would figure the raised voltage potentials would create a better effect on the water molecules elongation. Stronger effect more seperations.? The only thing you did not cover was possibly a change in frequency, change in motor speed! This may effect the point of resonance. Thinking that point would produce more gas, would be nice. (I don't know). You have the same LPM I have measured. (funny as it seems like it has a much higher potential volume with all that bubbling going on).
Steve suggested using KOH mix. Distilled and KOH, or Naoh. Potasium or sodium hydroxides. Its possible that all those tiny bubbles will escape with ease instead of saturating the water-bath. Again I'm hesitant to do this because of any corrosion that may happen. I suggest its worth one time test try and measure the LPM difference. Steve might know a mixture and somewhere I hear 28% whatever that means?
That also leads to the area that all the tiny bubbles locked in the water bath and how to get the bath to release these. I added a photon device for starters but the bubbles are still in the bath. Its possible the photons had some other effect. Hoping it is strengthening the fuel by possibly having the electron bands further out from the nucleous. Each atom should have a stronger charge to release when the fual is fired. Thats my guess on adding photon bombardment into the cell.
The only other method related to Meyer was a static filter he had on a 3-24 3-25 cell. Thinking that it was not only a static filter but if it effected the static charge on the water molecule in a positive fashion as to aid to the release of these tiny bubbles would be beneficial. Again I have not tested this and I am not trying to be misleading. For those bubbles to be sticking in the water bath thay are attracted to the charge the water currently has. Water is a dipole (neutral), but if it had taken on a positive static charge and the gases had a positive static charge when they leave the tubes those bubbles would not stick in the water.
If anyone has tested a hi-voltage static field on a cell with static filter as described can you post the effect it has on the tiny locked bubbles in the water bath.
That static filter has to have an effect on the water wouldn't you think. Surely would love to see the bubble activity leave the cell without adding chemicals.
Let me add a couple of other science facts that deal with health but may be of importance: Check youtube for ionized water. You find that standard water comes in water clusters that consist of 12-16 component type molecular cluster. Ionized water changes the cluster arrangement to roughly half 6-8 type molecular cluster and also on top of that leaves much more free hydroxyl's. The less clustering health wise can penetrate the body cells deeper with ease and can help deal with acidic wastes of the body and promote a healthy condition. Fact that ionized and alkalinity produces more single hydroxyls, is this a good thing in a cell? (I think so). Might very well be an answer to the over saturated standard water problem in cells without the use of rash chemicals like koh and naoh.
(This may be all sales hype for ionized water and micro-clusters and not substanciated by scientific fact). Have to check for yourself then decide.
I'm only guessing and thinking out loud, not suggesting anything.
John, I just love the Lawton type enclosure how it blends together. I'm interested in the fine details of the complete build. You have done a exceptional replication job.
Saw those chokes you put inside the alternator is that a standard 100 turn wind and on what core and material wire size? Do you mind with details? Can we email or PM?