Pulsing a coil with a cap pulser
Started by John_Koorn · · 59 posts · last reply 1 June 2018
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#1 ·
Greetings fellow experimenters!
Sorry I have posted here for a long time.
I was working on an experiment over the weekend where I was taking the output of a Bedini Large Comparator to pulse a very large coil. Then I sent the output of the coil to a battery.
So far the results look impressive.
Has anyone else tried this experiment?
Cheers,
John K. -
#2 ·
Hi JK,John_Koorn wrote:
Greetings fellow experimenters!
Sorry I have posted here for a long time.
I was working on an experiment over the weekend where I was taking the output of a Bedini Large Comparator to pulse a very large coil. Then I sent the output of the coil to a battery.
So far the results look impressive.
Has anyone else tried this experiment?
Cheers,
John K.
Very long time indeed!! nice to see you back!! This experiment can it not be done with out the Large Comparator... I mean a set up which has a standard Vanilla SSG and just that a Capacitor in place of the primary battery!!
just my opinion that the Generator mode and standard mode flipp their positions in this case.
the nature of the spike at the output is also inverted to the case where we have a primary as the battery. In this set up i would place a Capacitor at the out put connected to the now generator mode and not a battery.
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#3 ·
You could use a smaller cap pulser, but I'm using the Large Comparator because the coil is my 81 strand #23 @ 3 ohms per strand. (It's a BIG coil).Faraday88 wrote:
Hi JK,
Very long time indeed!! nice to see you back!! This experiment can it not be done with out the Large Comparator... I mean a set up which has a standard Vanilla SSG and just that a Capacitor in place of the primary battery!!
just my opinion that the Generator mode and standard mode flipp their positions in this case.
the nature of the spike at the output is also inverted to the case where we have a primary as the battery. In this set up i would place a Capacitor at the out put connected to the now generator mode and not a battery.
Rgds,
Faraday88.
I'm not using an SSG circuit. it's set up like a 3 battery switch and the coil is the load. Will post a schematic when I get some time.
Anyway, anyone tried this experiment?
John K. -
#4 ·
Thanks JK! Yes i realize that the SSG circuit is kind of akward to this topology especially when using Transistor to switch Capacitor dump (how knows a SSG circuit using a Power device dual to the IGBT say like base and source and drainJohn_Koorn wrote:
You could use a smaller cap pulser, but I'm using the Large Comparator because the coil is my 81 strand #23 @ 3 ohms per strand. (It's a BIG coil).
I'm not using an SSG circuit. it's set up like a 3 battery switch and the coil is the load. Will post a schematic when I get some time.
Anyway, anyone tried this experiment?
John K.
)
when you said its a Big coil i'm sure it meant low impedance, High- Inducatnce...and all these are Paralleled (81 strands) @ 3ohms per strands must not be very high turns ration.for that gauge.
any way more as i learn more..
Best Regards,
Faraday88. -
#5 ·
Best way to learn is to do the experimentFaraday88 wrote:
Thanks JK! Yes i realize that the SSG circuit is kind of akward to this topology especially when using Transistor to switch Capacitor dump (how knows a SSG circuit using a Power device dual to the IGBT say like base and source and drain)
when you said its a Big coil i'm sure it meant low impedance, High- Inducatnce...and all these are Paralleled (81 strands) @ 3ohms per strands must not be very high turns ration.for that gauge.
any way more as i learn more..
Best Regards,
Faraday88.
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#6 ·
Attached Files -
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#7 ·
Hi John,
Not having an 81 strand coil could you let us know what results you have been getting?
Thanks,
John. -
#8 ·
Hi JK,John_Koorn wrote:
The Load coil seems to have primary and secondary sets of coils depcted in the second schematic next to it, represented by a SSG type (not actually one) and then an Inverter in parallel to the out put battery.
The second schematic is the same as Peter L. presented in the 'beyond the advance' presentation.
.......time to try out what it does??? double stage amplifier??
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#9 ·
@all odd number of coilDeuis wrote:
Hi John,
Not having an 81 strand coil could you let us know what results you have been getting?
Thanks,
John.
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#10 ·
You said it JK...Indeed!!John_Koorn wrote:
Best way to learn is to do the experiment
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#11 ·
Hi JK,Faraday88 wrote:
Hi JK,
The Load coil seems to have primary and secondary sets of coils depcted in the second schematic next to it, represented by a SSG type (not actually one) and then an Inverter in parallel to the out put battery.
The second schematic is the same as Peter L. presented in the 'beyond the advance' presentation.
.......time to try out what it does??? double stage amplifier??
Rgds,
Faraday88.
Would like to buy a Large Comparator.. do you have a spare one for sale?? Teslagenx/Tesla chargers/Enegenx all closed production
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#12 ·
Hey JD, as far as results go I'm still doing test runs. But compared to either straight DC current charging, standard SSG charging, or just pulsed DC charging with a cap dump this setup would appear to be the most efficient method. You don't need a big coil to prove the concept. Just about anyone on this forum should be able to replicate without too much difficulty.Deuis wrote:
Hi John,
Not having an 81 strand coil could you let us know what results you have been getting?
Thanks,
John.
The second picture will probably throw you off because what I'm running is a lot simpler. That diagram was just a bunch of ideas I was scribbling down.
What I was after is more like the first picture in a block diagram. Like I said and Faraday rightly picked up is the circuit is basically the "3 battery switch" that PL showed - but not like the one most people have built. What I wanted was a setup that can squeeze everything out of a solar panel and efficiently charge a battery with it. Note that at this point while I'm testing I've been using a lab power supply to simulate the solar panel.
Here's how it works:
The Large Comparator is connected to the output of a solar panel, which in this case will be a 24V 200W panel. It will put out an Voc of around 45v in direct sunlight with a maximum of 5A. The Ctv (capacitor trigger voltage) on the comparator is set to ~25V.
The load coil is 81 strands of #23 (0.5mm), 64 strands are being used for the "power" winding and 16 strands are used as the "output" winding. The output winding is connected to the AC side of a FWBR as in the schematic I scribbled. The DC output of the FWBR is connected to the charge battery. The coil has an "air" core. (Please ignore the transistor at the bottom of the power winding and also the output diode. they are NOT in this circuit. I will scribble a better schematic some time in the future)
The battery is a 12V deep cycle LAB.
As per a "3 battery switch" the Comparator output is the "2 series batteries" for 25VDC. The coil is obviously the load and the battery is the "3rd battery".
But unlike a "3 battery switch" I', not using a constant DC current to charge the battery - I'm using the output of the comparator to "pulse charge" the coil and in turn the battery. When the comparator discharges its caps a very high current 25v pulse is placed over the charge battery and the coil which are in series.
During the comparator discharge pulse two things happen at the same time. Firstly, the coil is charged and secondly the battery gets a high current pulse charge.
Now, as soon as the pulse from the comparator is completed the coil discharges (a very high potential "radiant" spike) through the FWBR and then to the charge battery.
Effectively the charge battery is getting two massive charge pulses for every discharge pulse from the comparator.
What I really like about this setup is it's simplicity and it's efficiency. The comparator is the only device that is doing all of the switching. Aside from some switching losses in the comparator, everything else is being captured by the battery. There is no heat in the coil and no heating of the battery. I also like that it uses a lot of the concepts that JB has taught us.
But to replicate this you'll need something to regulate the current into the comparator. Do not use a couple of 12v batteries in series or a 24v battery as the comparator/cap pulser input.
My setup on a lab power supply running at 3A input will have the Large Comparator dumping at around 4Hz. You probably want to start with something smaller. Just grab a standard coil like an 8 strand and take 2 strands for the output winding. Any cap pulser will probably work, as long as you can set the dump voltage to about 2 times the charge battery voltage. Go slow at first with little current charging your caps, so you can visualise what's happening.
On the weekend I'll do a short video of my setup in operation and I'll show you the scope shot you're looking for. With a bit of luck I'll have it hooked up to a solar panel as well.
John K. -
#13 ·
Hi Faraday. Email [email protected]. Looks like we're still taking orders on the website, but I haven't checked with Tom C to see if we're supplying them or not. I only have the one I'm using and don't expect I'll be selling it.Faraday88 wrote:
Hi JK,
Would like to buy a Large Comparator.. do you have a spare one for sale?? Teslagenx/Tesla chargers/Enegenx all closed production
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#14 ·
Hi JK,John_Koorn wrote:
Hi Faraday. Email [email protected]. Looks like we're still taking orders on the website, but I haven't checked with Tom C to see if we're supplying them or not. I only have the one I'm using and don't expect I'll be selling it.
Thanks a lot! very comprehensive explanation above to JD's post its very encouraging to see you back!
i can always wait even if it would take time for the production to commence.. Aaron had some plans on that which means the supply would reflect at Teslagenx as well!
in the mean time it experiments with all that is around us
cheers!
Faraday88. -
#15 ·
Effectively the charge battery is getting two massive charge pulses for every discharge pulse from the comparator.John_Koorn wrote:
Hey JD, as far as results go I'm still doing test runs. But compared to either straight DC current charging, standard SSG charging, or just pulsed DC charging with a cap dump this setup would appear to be the most efficient method. You don't need a big coil to prove the concept. Just about anyone on this forum should be able to replicate without too much difficulty.
The second picture will probably throw you off because what I'm running is a lot simpler. That diagram was just a bunch of ideas I was scribbling down.
What I was after is more like the first picture in a block diagram. Like I said and Faraday rightly picked up is the circuit is basically the "3 battery switch" that PL showed - but not like the one most people have built. What I wanted was a setup that can squeeze everything out of a solar panel and efficiently charge a battery with it. Note that at this point while I'm testing I've been using a lab power supply to simulate the solar panel.
Here's how it works:
The Large Comparator is connected to the output of a solar panel, which in this case will be a 24V 200W panel. It will put out an Voc of around 45v in direct sunlight with a maximum of 5A. The Ctv (capacitor trigger voltage) on the comparator is set to ~25V.
The load coil is 81 strands of #23 (0.5mm), 64 strands are being used for the "power" winding and 16 strands are used as the "output" winding. The output winding is connected to the AC side of a FWBR as in the schematic I scribbled. The DC output of the FWBR is connected to the charge battery. The coil has an "air" core. (Please ignore the transistor at the bottom of the power winding and also the output diode. they are NOT in this circuit. I will scribble a better schematic some time in the future)
The battery is a 12V deep cycle LAB.
As per a "3 battery switch" the Comparator output is the "2 series batteries" for 25VDC. The coil is obviously the load and the battery is the "3rd battery".
But unlike a "3 battery switch" I', not using a constant DC current to charge the battery - I'm using the output of the comparator to "pulse charge" the coil and in turn the battery. When the comparator discharges its caps a very high current 25v pulse is placed over the charge battery and the coil which are in series.
During the comparator discharge pulse two things happen at the same time. Firstly, the coil is charged and secondly the battery gets a high current pulse charge.
Now, as soon as the pulse from the comparator is completed the coil discharges (a very high potential "radiant" spike) through the FWBR and then to the charge battery.
Effectively the charge battery is getting two massive charge pulses for every discharge pulse from the comparator.
What I really like about this setup is it's simplicity and it's efficiency. The comparator is the only device that is doing all of the switching. Aside from some switching losses in the comparator, everything else is being captured by the battery. There is no heat in the coil and no heating of the battery. I also like that it uses a lot of the concepts that JB has taught us.
But to replicate this you'll need something to regulate the current into the comparator. Do not use a couple of 12v batteries in series or a 24v battery as the comparator/cap pulser input.
My setup on a lab power supply running at 3A input will have the Large Comparator dumping at around 4Hz. You probably want to start with something smaller. Just grab a standard coil like an 8 strand and take 2 strands for the output winding. Any cap pulser will probably work, as long as you can set the dump voltage to about 2 times the charge battery voltage. Go slow at first with little current charging your caps, so you can visualise what's happening.
On the weekend I'll do a short video of my setup in operation and I'll show you the scope shot you're looking for. With a bit of luck I'll have it hooked up to a solar panel as well.
John K.
'Ring the bell twice'
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#16 ·
Hi John,
I was looking through an old battery charger, I was wondering if you could tell me if this is one of John's comparitors?
I suppose I would be dreaming if anyone had any details on it? -
#17 ·
Ah, the RC-20A. I re-wrote the software for that. Is your's still working? Looks like you had issues with the LCD at least... If by chance you don't want it anymore I'll make an offer on itDeuis wrote:
Hi John,
I was looking through an old battery charger, I was wondering if you could tell me if this is one of John's comparitors?
I suppose I would be dreaming if anyone had any details on it?
As for the "charge module" in it I'm not sure if it's a comparitor or not. I certainly don't have any details on it. It does appear to be a "cap pulser" though. -
#18 ·
JK,John_Koorn wrote:
Ah, the RC-20A. I re-wrote the software for that. Is your's still working? Looks like you had issues with the LCD at least... If by chance you don't want it anymore I'll make an offer on it
As for the "charge module" in it I'm not sure if it's a comparitor or not. I certainly don't have any details on it. It does appear to be a "cap pulser" though.
My guess...its the Small comaprator version by Rick friedrich..or his version what ever..
Teslagenx does not have the small comparator in their list of product nay more..
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#19 ·
Hi Faraday, bad guess. RF had nothing to do with that charger (thank goodness).
John K. -
#20 ·
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#21 ·
Hi John,
With your 81 strand coil, how many strands are used as the primary (pulsed by the Large Comparator) and how many are used as the secondary to collect the radiant spikes? -
#22 ·
Hi Gary,
The load coil is 81 strands of #23 (0.5mm), 64 strands are being used for the "power" winding and 16 strands are used as the "output" winding.
1 strand is not connected (it was previously used as a trigger winding on another experiment)
John K. -
#23 ·
Hi JK,John_Koorn wrote:
Hi Gary,
The load coil is 81 strands of #23 (0.5mm), 64 strands are being used for the "power" winding and 16 strands are used as the "output" winding.
1 strand is not connected (it was previously used as a trigger winding on another experiment)
John K.
Is the coil specifically designed for this experiment and why 81 strand in that ratio? 64 Primary and 16 secondary (and 1 'not in use')kind of Coupling ratio.. Faraday's equation would have said it be Turns ratio for a conventional transformer for Voltage.. Wow! This is Teslian coupling ratio for Current amplification right?? look i answered my own question !!!
how about a Capacitor alone in place of the Comparator unit..since not all have access to it now??
ofcourse it still needs to be 'rung twice'
Rgds,
Faraday88. -
#24 ·
Faraday, no the coil was not specifically designed for this experiment. It's the same coil I was using on my SS SG.
Don't over-think this, it's not that difficult. You can pulse the coil any way you like. I already explained how it works. Now there's even a proper schematic. Anyone who's been around for a while should be able to build something in about 20 minutes to prove the concept.
John K. -
#25 ·
JK,John_Koorn wrote:
Faraday, no the coil was not specifically designed for this experiment. It's the same coil I was using on my SS SG.
Don't over-think this, it's not that difficult. You can pulse the coil any way you like. I already explained how it works. Now there's even a proper schematic. Anyone who's been around for a while should be able to build something in about 20 minutes to prove the concept.
John K.
Thanks for that little help! however, your schematic earlier shows the primary coil in series with the charge battery while the secondary is 'kind of parallel' via the conversion in FWBR.
Since i do not have the Large Comparator... I would in essence have the Capacitor Discharge through a SCR or a MOSFET,(Transistors will not survive for sure) the SCR would Self commutate due to Series Resonance action but with this startegy you cannot make the 'bell ring twice' so Dual MOSFET is the best bet. BTW this is true even with Battery based primary switching..a cousin of the SSG.
just my way of tinkering...
thank s again... lets experiment..
Rgds,
Faraday88.