Dave Lawton circuit — IonizationX

#1 · date not recorded

Hi to you all,

I want to use my gas splitter dry cell (using the H2 only for my car) by using a circuit which work with frequencies to avoid the big current consuming. So I stumbled on the Dave Lawton circuit and build it on this PCB (http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/knovos2/IMG00480-20130224-1419_zps826b8dd1.jpg)
In spite of all the effort I did not get the high voltage spikes (1200 volt?) according to the attached PDF-file cramton-lawton.pdf. Both sections of the circuit work fine but the output is nothing more then spikes from 8 to 9 volt at 0.5 amp. To adjust the 4 pots to get something done is a kind of gambling process I don't like it at all. Further investigation bring me to a guy named Ravi who added some big changes to the Cramton circuit which tells me the Cramton circuit is a good basic design but needs a lot more (see attached pdf-file Ravi Cell). His modifications seems to work very well but take a lot of time and money. It kicked me back in my chair, no I don't want to do all that. Back on the web I discovered a different circuit from Dave Lawton which does the same Stan had, a self tuning resonance circuit. Look at page 10-61 from the attached pdf files chapter10.pdf My question to you all, is it worth trying to build this circuit (http://www.leonknook.com/circuits/Lawton%20self%20tuning%20circuit.jpg)
and is there a PCB available (open source). Are there alternatives who are better or give good results?
Kind regards, Knovos.

Ravi Cell.pdf cramton-lawton.pdf Chapter10.pdf

Steve

#2 · date not recorded

Dear Knovos,

Can you draw how you hooked up yr coil?
If its bifilar, you must do it the right way.
Other question is with which device you try to measure the HV peaks?

Steve

Leon

#3 · date not recorded

This is the PCB circuit, Bifilar clockwise.
I used 0.4mm thickness for the wire, it should be 0.7mm.
I tried several smaller coils with no different result.
The core is glued together with some toroids from computer cables.
When I attach a magnet near the coil it is vibrating.
I use a multimeter to measure the voltage and use a very old oscilloscope.

(http://www.leonknook.com/circuits/PCB Dave Cramton small.jpg)

Download the attachment for a sharper picture if needed.

PCB Dave Cramton.pdf

Steve

#4 · date not recorded

Looks like to me that you did it all according common knowledge.
Dave Lawton stated that the High Voltage spikes are difficult to measure.
What he did, was cathing the spikes into a capacitor and lighted a bulb with it...

Sorry i cannot help more in this.
Btw. long time ago my buddy had contact with Ravi. Do not expect to much of Ravi's efforts, as well as of the schematic of mr. Crampton.
Without any scientific proof, or without any confirmation by an independent observer, we must stay realistic and assume that no extra ordinary results were achieved. Extra ordinary means from my point of view any results higher then 150% efficiency accordingly to Faradays laws of electrolysis.

Steve

Leon

#5 · date not recorded

Thanks Steve,

I have to do some more searching to find out what can be done with these circuits.
I will be back if I have something useful.

Kind regards,

Knovos.

zafiroboss

#6 · 19 Feb 2015

Quote from: knovos on February 24, 2013, 17:20:23 pm

Hi to you all,

I want to use my gas splitter dry cell (using the H2 only for my car) by using a circuit which work with frequencies to avoid the big current consuming. So I stumbled on the Dave Lawton circuit and build it on this PCB (http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/knovos2/IMG00480-20130224-1419_zps826b8dd1.jpg)
In spite of all the effort I did not get the high voltage spikes (1200 volt?) according to the attached PDF-file cramton-lawton.pdf. Both sections of the circuit work fine but the output is nothing more then spikes from 8 to 9 volt at 0.5 amp. To adjust the 4 pots to get something done is a kind of gambling process I don't like it at all. Further investigation bring me to a guy named Ravi who added some big changes to the Cramton circuit which tells me the Cramton circuit is a good basic design but needs a lot more (see attached pdf-file Ravi Cell). His modifications seems to work very well but take a lot of time and money. It kicked me back in my chair, no I don't want to do all that. Back on the web I discovered a different circuit from Dave Lawton which does the same Stan had, a self tuning resonance circuit. Look at page 10-61 from the attached pdf files chapter10.pdf My question to you all, is it worth trying to build this circuit (http://www.leonknook.com/circuits/Lawton%20self%20tuning%20circuit.jpg)
and is there a PCB available (open source). Are there alternatives who are better or give good results?
Kind regards, Knovos.

Here is the PCB for the PLL Cramton-Dave circuit. http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/index.php/electrolysers/dave-lawton/dave-lawton-pll-full-kit.html

but it only works between 40Hz 18Khz, anybody could help to modidy it to achieve 46Khz? please any idea or info about who could help its very welcome.

adys15

#7 · date not recorded

Hy...Lawton circuits was the starting point for me too,but it will never achive what Stan did....its just amp restricting.

zafiroboss

#8 · date not recorded

There are many investigations about the pulsating method for electrolysis and 40/44Khz its the base point for resonance and subarmonics. But better results in higher frequency. The PLL circuits as Bedini its a good way for best results but the differences on the cells need different frequencies thats why im asking to modify the circuit as i know adding capacitors it work in a different range of frequencies but my question is this changes in the frequencies generator affects the PLL or it will match the better frequency for resonance? i also think its mandatory to use the 5 coils transformer but im totally novice in electronics. maybe i am on mistake? any help/idea please?
PD: Meyers work its many things not only HHO, as i know now he used vapor (from exhaust) high voltage/frequency pulsed ignitionPlasma Spark), and the EEC, these elements help to use less HHO, i am 100% sure its totally possible to run a engine on water. but will be the first step because its better to follow Tesla devices and extract the radiant energy, it is?

Peace and love.

Steve

#9 · 20 Feb 2015

Post of Sebosfato:

this is the last circuit i have worked on it has many possibilities... the frequency mixer can be used with other circuits if you want the A connector is from gas management system and should be held at a logic level to set the pll to run while we don't have the gas pressure signal the gms system shuts the pll down when the pressure is reached simply that! the accelerator control mess around with the voltage going to the primary coil to detune the circuit to control the rate of gas production during on demand operation.  the gate frequency generator is perfect from 0 to 100 percent at whatever frequency you just need many rotary switches for the number of capacitors the potentiometer gives an octave and all the rest work...  the feedback coil should be as big as the primary but could be smaller depending where you put it... if it is as same as primary with a capacitor connected in parallel it locks automatically.... if it indicates a lock in automatic mode and goes to the max or min frequency in the manual range than you don't have resonance happening or if its going to min the polarity of the feedback coil is wrong! don't forget to look all the pins of all ics some are missing,... If it don't work you missed something Good luck

zafiroboss

#10 · 20 Feb 2015

Thanks a lot Steve!! I know about the pin 12 should be connected to the pin11, right? As i´m not electronics expert and i´m not family with these chips, could you tell me where i have to add the rotary switch with the capacitors and values for caps for 40- 46Khz range? at the 555 like Lawton circuit? Maybe working together a better future its possible.
Thanks again!!

Steve

#11 · 20 Feb 2015

Quote from: zafiroboss on February 19, 2015, 12:02:58 pm

Quote from: knovos on February 24, 2013, 17:20:23 pm
Hi to you all,

I want to use my gas splitter dry cell (using the H2 only for my car) by using a circuit which work with frequencies to avoid the big current consuming. So I stumbled on the Dave Lawton circuit and build it on this PCB (http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/knovos2/IMG00480-20130224-1419_zps826b8dd1.jpg)
In spite of all the effort I did not get the high voltage spikes (1200 volt?) according to the attached PDF-file cramton-lawton.pdf. Both sections of the circuit work fine but the output is nothing more then spikes from 8 to 9 volt at 0.5 amp. To adjust the 4 pots to get something done is a kind of gambling process I don't like it at all. Further investigation bring me to a guy named Ravi who added some big changes to the Cramton circuit which tells me the Cramton circuit is a good basic design but needs a lot more (see attached pdf-file Ravi Cell). His modifications seems to work very well but take a lot of time and money. It kicked me back in my chair, no I don't want to do all that. Back on the web I discovered a different circuit from Dave Lawton which does the same Stan had, a self tuning resonance circuit. Look at page 10-61 from the attached pdf files chapter10.pdf My question to you all, is it worth trying to build this circuit (http://www.leonknook.com/circuits/Lawton%20self%20tuning%20circuit.jpg)
and is there a PCB available (open source). Are there alternatives who are better or give good results?
Kind regards, Knovos.

Here is the PCB for the PLL Cramton-Dave circuit. http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/index.php/electrolysers/dave-lawton/dave-lawton-pll-full-kit.html

but it only works between 40Hz 18Khz, anybody could help to modidy it to achieve 46Khz? please any idea or info about who could help its very welcome.

Hi Zafiraboss,

Welcome to our forum here.
You made a nice PCB!
Thanks for sharing.

To get the oscillator a little bit higher to 50khz is not a problem.
However, its a question if the pll will take it...

Steve

zafiroboss

#12 · 20 Feb 2015

Thanks Steve but i just found it.

Thats why i want to modify it. Let´s find the way to do it and the PLL catch it at higher frequencies. Spread the question with proffesionals on electronics please!

sebosfato

#13 · date not recorded

here is the circuit

this is the last circuit i have worked on it has many possibilities...

the frequency mixer can be used with other circuits if you want

the A connector is from gas management system and should be held at a logic level to set the pll to run while we dont have the gas pressure signal the gms system shuts the pll down when the pressure is reached simply that!

the accelerator control mess around with the voltage going to the primary coil to detune the circuit to control the rate of gas production during on demand operation.

the gate frequency generator is perfect from 0 to 100 percent at whatever frequency you just need many rotary switches for the number of capacitors the potentiometer gives an octave

and all the rest work... the feedback coil should be as big as the primary but could be smaller depending where you put it... if it is as same as primary with a capacitor connected in parallel it locks automatically.... if it indicates a lock in automatic mode and goes to the max or min frequency in the manual range than you dont have resonance happening or if its going to min the polarity of the feedback coil is wrong!

don't forget to look all the pins of all ics some pins are not show,...

If it dont work you missed something

Good luck

pll-full-circuit36-.jpg.zip attachment_14051 pll-full-circuit36-.jpg

zafiroboss

#14 · date not recorded

Thanks a lot!! there is anybody selling this circuit in PCB? or ready mounted? i could try but... will be a disaster lol

sebosfato

#15 · 25 Feb 2015

There is a pen that you can use to draw directly on the board and than you simply drop the board into an acid that corrode the copper that is not coated with the pen.

My best tip i can give to you is to not perforate the boards... make the traces over the board on the same side of the ics this way you don't need to make the holes and there is less confusion..

Another good idea is to use double layer boards so this way you don't need many wires to jump...

attachment_14053 Foto criada em 04-02-15 às 23.21 #2.jpg

zafiroboss

#16 · 25 Feb 2015

Well i will have to face it. Thanks! God bless you!

sebosfato

#17 · 25 Feb 2015

The flip flop frequency mixer is very useful since it ,makes only perfect pulses to come out from it, so you can simply use it as a dave lawton circuit.

you could start with that and the gate generator since it generate from 0 to 100% you can use it at the T point (set) and have another frequency generator having 50% duty cycle at the clock point... R

You could use the same configuration of the timer used for the gate generator since it generates 50% duty pulses too...
for example..

The pll is should be useful since it can follow frequency changes

Thanks god bless you too