Lead Acid battery chemistry?
Started by sucahyo · · 10 posts · last reply 7 April 2010
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#1 ·
Whatever charge lead acid battery, charge process require energy. And according to Bedini there is difference when people charging with radiant circuit.
Here is the standard process of charging. Anyone has other version, feel free to post them.
Accu Oerlikon - battery power
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#2 ·
As Bedini showed in one of his videos, it seems that the Radiant energy makes finer PbSO4 Crystals on the battery plates, thus lowering the internal impedance of the Battery. Now also this method of charging enables the crystals to self-organise. Have you seen a battery charge itself, this is what self organising means. If you leave a battery discharged long enough, the battery tries to charge itself, but because it hasn't got the energy, it sulphates, but when we charge a battery with Radiant energy (Voltage Impulses), it charges itself, and the Radiant energy makes a battery open for receiving more energy from the vacuum to make the crystals finer and more on the plates. Radiant energy makes a battery approach Singularity, and a type of Implosive process starts the shape in the battery, some vortexes from the vacuum start opening, that we don't see.
This is what I understand about Bedini charged batteries. -
#3 ·
It seems finer grain will also increase battery output currentRadiant charge are said to be unsuitable for sealed lead acid for more than normal gas generation.Lead sulphate is an insulator, and therefore the way in which lead sulfate forms on the electrodes determined how easily the battery can be discharged.
According to the graph bellow, it indicate that the battery felt as being charged with more than normal voltage
Operation of Lead Acid Batteries
According to this article, we should charge the battery with minimum gassing. This would means we have to reduce our input current significantly if we observe gas production.The charging reaction converts the lead sulfate at the negative electrode to lead. At the positive terminal the reaction converts the lead to lead oxide. As a by-product of this reaction, hydrogen is evolved. During the first part of the charging cycle, the conversion of lead sulfate to lead and lead oxide is the dominant reaction. However, as charging proceeds and most of the lead sulfate is converted to either lead or lead dioxide, the charging current electrolyzes the water from the electrolyte and both hydrogen and oxygen gas are evolved, a process known as the "gassing" of the battery. If current is being provided to the battery faster than lead sulfate can be converted, then gassing begins before all the lead sulfate is converted, that is, before the battery is fully charged. Gassing introduces several problems into a lead acid battery. Not only does the gassing of the battery raise safety concerns, due to the explosive nature of the hydrogen produced, but gassing also reduces the water in the battery, which must be manually replaced, introducing a maintenance component into the system. In addition, gassing may cause the shedding of active material from the electrolyte, thereby permanently reducing battery capacity. For these reasons, the battery should not regularly be charged above the voltage which causes gassing. The voltage across the battery and the gassing voltage are shown in the figure below.
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#4 ·
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#5 ·
So nice to see this discussion and that it's based on facts. Well done Suchayo for bringing this to our attention.
and blackchisel97 and elias, I can absolutely vouch for the effect that Bedini notes. It is a fact that our battery performance improved over time and there is absolutely NO CLASSICAL REASONS for this. And our tests definitely and always subjected the batteries to a barrage of 'spikes'. I believe that Bedini has also proved that he can recover the efficiencies of otherwise degraded batteries - simply by 'doctoring' them with this technique. It is one thing to get a spent battery - a battery that simply cannot retain it's recharge - to then recover. It's an entirely different thing when the battery also then performs beyond its watt hour rating.
And there is no classical explanation for this that I know of. Mainstream can only predict the certainty of dysfunction attendant on battery' overuse and over time. And no electron current flow can account for this so called anomaly. Something else must be coming into play to account for the apparent 'rejuvenation' or 'extended life' that the Bedini recharge system allows. -
#6 ·
BEDINI'S METHOD FOR FORMING NEGATIVE RESISTORS IN BATTERIES - Thomas E. Beardensucahyo wrote:
Whatever charge lead acid battery, charge process require energy. And according to Bedini there is difference when people charging with radiant circuit.
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#7 ·
Thanks, there is many basic knowledge of lead acid battery in thereblackchisel97 wrote:
4shared.com - document sharing - download Bedini-The_Battery_Bible.pdf
Enjoy it
V .
It seems that the bigger we force the battery to be charged at higher voltage, the higher gain we have at charging. -
#8 ·
Please also look at the addition of Phosphoric acid to the Electrolyte.
It also has the (chemical) effect of reducing crystal size, increasing output.
There seems to be a trade-off though, as capacity seems to be slightly reduced, although voltage is increased. Used for E.Vehicles. -
#9 ·
Plante Cell
Hello,
John Bedini has said before that the gain in his system is in the battery and that the front end to his machine is conventional electronics with the back end being unconventional.
I made a little voltameter (not a volt meter) a couple of years ago and started observing the differences between straight DC and HV impulses from a pulse generator coil. The two were very different. Using lead electrodes and sulphuric acid, exactly as Gaston Plante, the inventor of the solid plate lead acid battery had done himself, I noticed that the dendrite growths on the plate surfaces were very different when pulsed with HV impulses.
Gaston Plante noted that if the current wasn't enough then the lead dioxide growth was a different darker colour. What was found with the impulses was bright red oxidation, but of the opposite electrode. Although I managed to replicate this result with the small cells, I have yet to see anyone else show the same and I haven't got anything big enough to do it to a large battery.
Gassing for pasted batteries is bad. BUT for solid plate batteries, it means that NEW active plate material is being grown, adding to the capacity of the battery, so not taking a battery past the gassing voltage means that no new plate material is made and will probably become lost to hardened sulphation. Under charging is worse than supposidly over charging. If the water is replaced then gassing is good, but obviously too much is not good either.
John Bedini's impulse technology not only breaks down the hardened sulphation, but also re-forms the plates (in solid plate batteries at least) better than they were formed in the first place. And gassing with this is called cold boiling, the main danger of gassing being heat build up buckling the plates, but with cold boiling there's very little heat.
Regards
Dave -
#10 ·
Interesting, kinda like NiMH vs NiCd then?Richie_asg1 wrote:
Please also look at the addition of Phosphoric acid to the Electrolyte.
It also has the (chemical) effect of reducing crystal size, increasing output.
There seems to be a trade-off though, as capacity seems to be slightly reduced, although voltage is increased. Used for E.Vehicles.
Thank you for the documentDave Michael Rogers wrote:
Using lead electrodes and sulphuric acid, exactly as Gaston Plante, the inventor of the solid plate lead acid battery had done himself, I noticed that the dendrite growths on the plate surfaces were very different when pulsed with HV impulses. .
I seeDave Michael Rogers wrote:
Gassing for pasted batteries is bad. BUT for solid plate batteries, it means that NEW active plate material is being grown, adding to the capacity of the battery, so not taking a battery past the gassing voltage means that no new plate material is made and will probably become lost to hardened sulphation. . I guess we have to stick to C20 then, not over and not under.
Agree with cold boiling part.
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