Joseph Papp, Air Inert Gas Design, by Heinz Klostermann
Started by vrand · · 15 posts · last reply 18 January 2013
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#1 ·
- Running a Papp engine on just atmospheric air.
- No more mixing expensive noble gases in a vacuum.
- Working test model already built.
- Worked with Bob and Tom Rohner back in 2005.
- Already has patents; US7076950; US20060101816.
- Ready for mass production of a 2 or 4 cylinder engine within a year.
- Electric generator design for 50 kWp (built by DOE) can run on his Papp air design.
Heinz Klostermann has been working on this for the past couple of decades just released a video of his working air driven Papp engine model and talks about how it works.
Youtube: Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine
Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine - YouTube
More info:
PowerPedia:Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine - PESWiki
US Patents:
https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&...Klostermann%22
Cheers -
#2 ·
At the 8 min. mark in the 20 min. video they show the launching of a 1.1 lb. 3" X 3" stainless steel cylinder, with lots of force, igniting just air.vrand wrote:
Youtube: Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine
Pulser Plasma Engine Core: Recovering the Papp Engine - YouTube
Cool demonstration of the high power from HV pulses igniting just air, no noble gases or radioactive elements needed
Cheers -
Not quite the case. If the air inside was at zero humidity you would not see this force, do I need to explain further!!
vrand wrote:
At the 8 min. mark in the 20 min. video they show the launching of a 1.1 lb. 3" X 3" stainless steel cylinder, with lots of force, igniting just air.
Cool demonstration of the high power from HV pulses igniting just air, no noble gases or radioactive elements needed
Cheers
Now I wonder who was doing this before
Mike
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#4 ·
Thats what Klostermann is telling with normal air, and the water is also mentioned in the first patent from Papp!Michael John Nunnerley wrote:
Not quite the case. If the air inside was at zero humidity you would not see this force, do I need to explain further!!
Now I wonder who was doing this before
Mike
Vacuum are seals there directed, below zero bar and it starts to ........... !
Regards, Johan -
#5 ·
Interesting, as I did not know this, thanks for the infoJohan wrote:
Thats what Klostermann is telling with normal air, and the water is also mentioned in the first patent from Papp!
Vacuum are seals there directed, below zero bar and it starts to ........... !
Regards, Johan
Papp first patent US3670494, part of Claim #8 reads:
"said chamber containing and effective charge of between about 10 percent and 25 percent of de-oxygenated water, by volume, and the remaining volume being composed of a mixture of three or more noble gases..."
I do not recall ever reading the Rohner brothers mentioning this important requirement of having 10-25% water volume in their research with Papp?
Why the need to have water?
- Has more mass than the noble gases to push the piston?
- Has lower breakdown voltage, so the high current flows?
- easier to ionize?
"Build it and they will come."
Cheers -
#6 ·
Michael John Nunnerley wrote:
Not quite the case. If the air inside was at zero humidity you would not see this force, do I need to explain further!!
Now I wonder who was doing this before
Mike
It looks like Papp also says this, needing 10-25% of water by volume!
Yes, would you please explain why the need for water gas.
Also, how is the water made into a gas? Electrolyzing the water to oxyhydrogen gas? Or, by high pressure water mister? Humidifier?
Cheers -
#7 ·
you only need water mist no electrolysing.. and you have to control the charge density or crank up the voltage...
the only problem with all these "engines" are the corroding electrodes..are there still people that think that this force is coming from water? (this has been discovered from the 70's ...) oh yes you have to control the ionization state.. :P will you build one... the video says enough..
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#8 ·
Mark Hugo in this video says that Papp is electrolyzing the water.tachyon wrote:
you only need water mist no electrolysing.. and you have to control the charge density or crank up the voltage... the only problem with all these "engines" are the corroding electrodes..are there still people that think that this force is coming from water? (this has been discovered from the 70's ...) oh yes you have to control the ionization state.. :P will you build one... the video says enough..
Mark Hugo demonstrates how HHO may be a nuclear process involving cold fusion, and may also be the force responsible for the Papp Engine.
It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine - YouTube
It looks like there are a lot of processes happening in the simple Papp design.
Cheers -
Excellent
Thank you for posting this video, it brings together what I have been saying for many years here, an excellent explination.vrand wrote:
Mark Hugo in this video says that Papp is electrolyzing the water.
Mark Hugo demonstrates how HHO may be a nuclear process involving cold fusion, and may also be the force responsible for the Papp Engine.
It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine - YouTube
It looks like there are a lot of processes happening in the simple Papp design.
Cheers
Mike
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#10 ·
Yes, Mechanical & Electrical Engineer Mark Hugo also does a great job in explaining how the 20-30% gasoline saving in cars with HHO/oxyhydrogen gas being reported worldwide, using the "cold fusion" nuclear processes theories of Fisher, Oriani, McKubre, Storms and many others over the past 24 years.Michael John Nunnerley wrote:
Thank you for posting this video, it brings together what I have been saying for many years here, an excellent explination.
Mike
Here is John Fisher interesting theory:
OUTLINE OF POLYNEUTRON THEORY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57700187,d.cGE
What is needed is a working "free energy" device to power our homes and cars.
Cheers
Corrected Mark Hugo's background experience, and here is his resume:
Hugo Resume Onward -
#11 ·
Thanks for the paper, with you around it's like having a librarian on handvrand wrote:
Yes, Mechanical & Electrical Engineer Mark Hugo also does a great job in explaining how the 20-30% gasoline saving in cars with HHO/oxyhydrogen gas being reported worldwide, using the "cold fusion" nuclear processes theories of Fisher, Oriani, McKubre, Storms and many others over the past 24 years.
Here is John Fisher interesting theory:
OUTLINE OF POLYNEUTRON THEORY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57700187,d.cGE
What is needed is a working "free energy" device to power our homes and cars.
Cheers
Corrected Mark Hugo's background experience, and here is his resume:
Hugo Resume Onward
Mike -
#12 ·
Thank God for the InternetMichael John Nunnerley wrote:
Thanks for the paper, with you around it's like having a librarian on hand
Mike
Some info on needing water or humidity in the Papp design.
John Rohner's, 11/19/2009, Patent Application US20110113772 references the Klostermann, 2006 Patent #7076950.
Plasmic transition process motor
Patent US20110113772 - Plasmic transition process motor - Google Patents
John does not use the electrolyzing (water in the humidity?) air as Klostermann uses, nor does he use the electrolyzing of the 20% water specified by Papp in his first patent. Klostermann does not specify the amount of humidity of the air so more testing would be required to determine the minimum percentage of water.
John does say in his patent application that hydrogen is used for speeding up the reaction or generating additional power for larger engines.
So we have seen videos of working test devices from Papp, and Klostermann that needed water/humidity to operate. No video's from John Rohner. Unknown if Bob Rohner uses or needs to electrolyze water in his device?
Lots of action in developing the Papp invention, hoping that something works!
Cheers -
#13 ·
Speaking about electrolyzers and electrolytes that neutrons and alpha particles form the Polyneutron Theory:vrand wrote:
Here is John Fisher interesting theory:
OUTLINE OF POLYNEUTRON THEORY
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...57700187,d.cGE
Lithium Sulphate, Li2SO4 was used by Oriani in his "Cold Fusion" electrolyzer experiments. Mark Hugo referenced Henry "Dad" Garrett's 1936 Sulphuric Acid electrolyzer device when he talked about creating HHO in fueling a car.
Both had sulfur in the electrolyte. Is there something special about sulfur? In ancient times the Philosopher's Stone to make gold by transmutation often used sulfur.
Lithium was also special for the "Fast Freddy" device when he was running his truck on his cell design. Lithium is often used by conventional nuclear reactors in absorbing neutrons.
Still much to learn
Cheers -
#14 ·
lithium is very important.. about water it's not the key element here , it only helps because of plasma expansion but energy is not coming from water! -
#15 ·
air can be ignited...
Air can be ignited simply respecting simple conditions. I have tested this condition in my latest reactor and the air is transformed in gas and is burned at the same time.
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